Mining and Legions

Ahmet

Ashelynne said:

Ahmet said:

Ashelynne said:

Oh, that was one thing I was going to mention as a thought.

Is it possible to have LEGION RECALL ALL just be local to the mine you're standing in, rather than recalling all of your legion from every mine? Since you have to be in your stronghold or mine to recall them, I'd think it'd make more sense to have it recall only the squads that are deployed in that specific mine. It'd certainly make abandoning a specific mine far easier if you need/want to do that at any time, without having to go back and set up your other mine(s).

You can LEGION RECALL ALL HERE to do that.

Oh. I thought that just recalled whatever squads you had in that particular room. Good to know.

Newp. It's the whole mine/stronghold.

Tesha

@Sarapis since the initial plan wasn't to limit mines to 2, there don't seem to be any measures in place for partially mined nodes. I know that at least some people were letting their mines collapse in order to build a better mine when their node reached 70-90% and they saw a massive node they wanted to take, but since nodes don't despawn on their own, there are multiple undesirable nodes just sitting there that nobody wants to build on because they'll only get a few resources out if it. Could partially mined nodes despawn after some period of time?

Also, nobody seems to be building on small/medium lodes after the adjustment, either, so those are piling up. I've noticed that small mines are particularly easy to assault, so that might be part of the reason, too.

Siduri

Tesha said:

@Sarapis since the initial plan wasn't to limit mines to 2, there don't seem to be any measures in place for partially mined nodes. I know that at least some people were letting their mines collapse in order to build a better mine when their node reached 70-90% and they saw a massive node they wanted to take, but since nodes don't despawn on their own, there are multiple undesirable nodes just sitting there that nobody wants to build on because they'll only get a few resources out if it. Could partially mined nodes despawn after some period of time?

Haven't had to deal with this frustration yet, but I second that this could prove problematic.

Sarapis

Tesha said:

@Sarapis since the initial plan wasn't to limit mines to 2, there don't seem to be any measures in place for partially mined nodes. I know that at least some people were letting their mines collapse in order to build a better mine when their node reached 70-90% and they saw a massive node they wanted to take, but since nodes don't despawn on their own, there are multiple undesirable nodes just sitting there that nobody wants to build on because they'll only get a few resources out if it. Could partially mined nodes despawn after some period of time?

Also, nobody seems to be building on small/medium lodes after the adjustment, either, so those are piling up. I've noticed that small mines are particularly easy to assault, so that might be part of the reason, too.

Partially mined nodes will sit there until someone wants to mine them for now. That might change. Same with small/medium lodes, though that's highly unlikely to change.

Tesha

Could the cost of raising mines on partially mined lodes be adjusted by how much is left? So if it's 90% mined, it would cost 10% as much, since you're only getting 10% of the experience/commodity you would get otherwise.

Sarapis

We will figure something out, though it's unlikely that any significant mining changes will be made before next week. The team has already started to migrate to Vegas for the gods meet.

Inuad

Let's be honest, @Sarapis, you guys are just doing research for mining.

Klendathu

Vegas, a real life gold sink

Synbios

I really hope Legions will get more use besides defending and capturing mines. I mean, your soldiers get an awesome collective noun called a 'legion', and their only purpose is to attack and defend a bunch of mines? I doubt that they'll be limited in that scope in the future.

Xinna

Would really like it if there was a LEGION LIST <mine> to display who you have in a particular mine, in the LEGION LIST format. MINE SHOW <mine> lists what is in that mine, but it doesn't tell what level or specialisations, and it's harder to read.

Ruth

Do your squads also gain experience by surviving their march to capture mines?

Ruth

Also, has there been an added cooldown as to attacking a mine? I tried to attack after my current legion army failed to capture it, and apparently it went through but gave me:

legion assault mine with army
That mine is already under attack.

Tahquil

When we CLAIM STORAGE can we get our raw comms to go to our rifts instead of our inventories?

Sarapis

Ruth said:

Do your squads also gain experience by surviving their march to capture mines?

No, the sole way that any squad gains xp is by being in a mine when the same owner's miners extract a comm and put it into storage. 

Siduri

Ruth said:

Also, has there been an added cooldown as to attacking a mine? I tried to attack after my current legion army failed to capture it, and apparently it went through but gave me:

legion assault mine with army
That mine is already under attack.

It glitched like that when I attacked Qwindor once. We both lost our glitched out squads.

Greys

@Siduri no breaking reality or I'm telling @Aurora!

Shirszae

So, what is the point of soldiers on your mine anyway when people from a city can just decide to all attack you like mindless bots until one of them succeeds? It is obvious that if everyone in a city takes turns against you, you are going to lose, no matter how well prepared you are, simply because of attrition...

Inuad

Shirszae said:

So, what is the point of soldiers on your mine anyway when people from a city can just decide to all attack you like mindless bots until one of them succeeds? It is obvious that if everyone in a city takes turns against you, you are going to lose, no matter how well prepared you are, simply because of attrition...

It seems no different than other avenues in Achaea. A city could decide to completely hunt out areas to deny another person/city access to that, for instance. If they really wanted to, they could buy a bunch of ships to block access to certain harbours. Like those, though, I don't think such a strategy would be very viable or economic.

First, consider that if they wanted to throw grunts at someone's mines, that's 1k per soldier. Second, if they are willing to go through that kind of attrition, it means their own holdings will be relatively unprotected. Rally your own city against them and launch counter attacks. Third, it would be for just one mine. Sure, maybe a city -really- wants that iron mine, but going through 20 squads and injuring another 5-10 to get it? Probably not worth it, in the long run.

Siduri

Inuad said:

Shirszae said:

So, what is the point of soldiers on your mine anyway when people from a city can just decide to all attack you like mindless bots until one of them succeeds? It is obvious that if everyone in a city takes turns against you, you are going to lose, no matter how well prepared you are, simply because of attrition...

It seems no different than other avenues in Achaea. A city could decide to completely hunt out areas to deny another person/city access to that, for instance. If they really wanted to, they could buy a bunch of ships to block access to certain harbours. Like those, though, I don't think such a strategy would be very viable or economic.

First, consider that if they wanted to throw grunts at someone's mines, that's 1k per soldier. Second, if they are willing to go through that kind of attrition, it means their own holdings will be relatively unprotected. Rally your own city against them and launch counter attacks. Third, it would be for just one mine. Sure, maybe a city -really- wants that iron mine, but going through 20 squads and injuring another 5-10 to get it? Probably not worth it, in the long run.

Still, that's what they did to her. I agree that it's frustrating when you lose your mine to what seems a rather cheap (yet costly) tactic.

Tvistor

The fact that it is costly means it really isn't appropriate to be called 'cheap' tactically. It definitely sucks to be the losing player, but if a faction in any game I've ever played has made a victory by brute-forcing their opponent with huge numbers/expensive gear/teamwork, it's really only 'cheap' if it took them a disproportionately small amount of resources to get those forces together.

If anything, it would be pretty ridiculous if an entire city wasn't able to take a single mine from one player. I was also under the impression that in the long-term this was going to be a more meaningful stand-in for war, where even people that just like bashing can contribute to the fight effectively by raising gold for legions.

Sarapis

Obviously it sucks to be on the losing side of that, but that's completely by design. As I've said, mining isn't about whether you make a profit on a single mine or not. It's about essentially running a business and deciding where and when to commit resources, as well as how much, in order to try to achieve your goals (profit or whatever else) over a longer period of time. 

This isn't, however, any kind of stand-in for a war system. We're not going to be giving cities any way to control mines, or act together in any formal way. However, of course, players will form ad hoc coalitions to attack each other, and that's also part of the system. In the long-term, I expect there to be effectively mining consortiums organized around cities, though I think it'd be absolutely awesome to watch a group of dedicated rogues organize in the same way.

I'm pretty sure the system ensures that those coalitions really can't last though because the cost (in time/mining effort) to level up squads is, the higher level the squad gets, so much higher than the incremental benefits for each additional level. In other words, it's nearly impossible to constantly seek to be the aggressor because your squads will get ground down if you've leveled them up enough to have a big advantage. Of course, you'll wipe a bunch of weaker people out in the meantime, but that's capitalism!

 

Morthif

how's multiclass coming along?

Xinna

Tvistor said:

The fact that it is costly means it really isn't appropriate to be called 'cheap' tactically. It definitely sucks to be the losing player, but if a faction in any game I've ever played has made a victory by brute-forcing their opponent with huge numbers/expensive gear/teamwork, it's really only 'cheap' if it took them a disproportionately small amount of resources to get those forces together.

If anything, it would be pretty ridiculous if an entire city wasn't able to take a single mine from one player. I was also under the impression that in the long-term this was going to be a more meaningful stand-in for war, where even people that just like bashing can contribute to the fight effectively by raising gold for legions.

Yeah. Take solace in the fact that we lost a lot of squads just for one medium iron mine. It wasn't worth it at all in terms of profits, imo. If groups of people couldn't team up in such a way, though, some mines would be essentially indestructible because the owner got a head start leveling. Gotta have some risk in there!

Sarapis

Morthif said:

how's multiclass coming along?

(It's been basically done for many months. Just waiting on the Renn to be finally over.)

Ahmet

Sarapis said:

Morthif said:

how's multiclass coming along?

(It's been basically done for many months. Just waiting on the Renn to be finally over.)

Just throw the Ceej ours already so I can finally go BM *weep*

Taraus

Somewhat of an addendum to Xinna's suggestion, would it be (please) possible to add something to LEGION LIST that shows what mine the squads are deployed in?

Something like...

ID         Type       Name                 Level Strength   Status         Specialisation 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1          heavies    Rico's Roughnecks    2     20      deployed  (17)      None
5          heavies    Rico's Roughnecks    1     20      deployed (155)     None
6          assassins  Colchis Assassins      1     20      deployed  (155)    None
7          wizards    Dwarven Mages        2     20      deployed  (17)     None

Would be handy if there was a way to do that, so we knew at-a-glance WHERE they were deployed on that list. (and thank you for this stuff, this system is super-fun and addictive, and I'm enjoying it way more than I thought I would).

Atalkez

Also can we please please please have the Legion List re-sort itself numerically?

I spasm everytime I see 1, 2, 3, 24, 12, 7 or whatever.

Please?

Tael

Sarapis said:

Morthif said:

how's multiclass coming along?

(It's been basically done for many months. Just waiting on the Renn to be finally over.)

I don't think I can express how excited these two sentences make me.

Not only did we get a neat economy thing, not only is multiclass "basically done", but even Sarapis is testy about how long the Renaissance is taking. Maybe the fact that the admin are growing impatient and that Ashtan has had oh my god so long to figure out what they're doing means that we won't be waiting six months for Ashtan's rework.

And just as I'm finally nearing a point where I can spend some more time in the game again.

Be still my heart.

Ahmet

Tael said:

Sarapis said:

Morthif said:

how's multiclass coming along?

(It's been basically done for many months. Just waiting on the Renn to be finally over.)

I don't think I can express how excited these two sentences make me.

Not only did we get a neat economy thing, not only is multiclass "basically done", but even Sarapis is testy about how long the Renaissance is taking. Maybe the fact that the admin are growing impatient and that Ashtan has had oh my god so long to figure out what they're doing means that we won't be waiting six months for Ashtan's rework.

And just as I'm finally nearing a point where I can spend some more time in the game again.

Be still my heart.

Out of curiosity, has it been discussed whether the Delos houses will be getting a full rework or just accepting all classes? I haz no clue.

Tharvis

@Daeir atleast let ashtan finish their juicy court-martial of an embezzling/harassing/power-abusing HL first!