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Mining and Legions

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  • DeliosDelios Member Posts: 13
    edited October 2015
    @Skye ,  I tried to explain this to a character in game - (was that you?), and I can post that discussion on public if that helps matters, but here are three quick, concise reasons (I had detailed examples, but decided against posting those):

    1) A few large orders makes it easier for people to manipulate the market.

    2)  Small order sizes means that everyone gets to sell some stuff.

    3) No pricing model is perfect.


  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, FloridaMember Posts: 4,952 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2015
    2) is largely incorrect when it's only (or mostly) one person doing those multiple prices. The only thing that's happening is de-valuing the price of the commodity. Stone is acting much the same way at the moment.

    I bet the above wouldn't happen if a name was attached to any commodities sold, though that unfortunately defeats the purpose. While the idea of manipulating the market with a few well-priced batches of commodities is intriguing, I find it less so in the face of the current de-valuing that is clearly happening and unlikely to stop.

    Edit: To clarify, no one is going to be posting commodities in those little groups. Everyone will always want to sell now, now, now because people are impatient. Instead they'll just sell for the cheapest, even if it means they lose money. This is why it is not a very advisable tactic, for economic stability, and for all involved.

    So with that, I am for adding in the similarity of the credit market, in which you can only have a few groups of one type of commodity up at varying prices - a max of three sounds fair. Unless there's a better solution not thought of yet.
    "You have had an extraordinary adventure, my dear. Extraordinary! One that few people could ever imagine. Treasure it. Keep it safe and secure, tucked away in some special place in your heart. 

    But... don't spend the rest of your days chasing a ghost."
    AeryllinSaevaShirszaeSkye
  • AeryllinAeryllin Michigan, USAMember Posts: 22 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Yes.  Allllll for making it so you can only have one batch of one kind of comm up like the credit market.  These cute 'little orders' have devalued the market immensely and will only get worse with time.  It'd be fine if you posted one group at a time, but when you then post ten more and knock the price of a comm down by 20 gold...  it ruins the economy.  Period.


  • DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 1,391 @ - Epic Achaean
    I find it easier to sell 200-500 at a time. And add them back as they get sold. 

    And agree with @Grandue, the gold goes to Delos bank, details goes as a message. 
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 2,816 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Delios said:



    WTB my wtf/disagree button back, please. 


  • LisbethaeLisbethae Member Posts: 176 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I like the letters, personally. It allows me to keep things straight.
    Kakotas
  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    probably not worth the effort to code in, but a CONFIG option sounds perfect for this
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

  • AnariaAnaria Member Posts: 184 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    It is a little thing but.. any chance of putting the PROSPECT information in MINES SHOW? 

    What I mean by this is, when I am physically present to prospect my own mine I see how much of the lode has been mined out. It would be nice if this information was visible when I look at a specific mine with mines show so that I can figure out at what point I should go there and CLAIM STORAGE.

    Siduri
  • BronislavBronislav MarylandMember Posts: 347 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    We could also use more iron drops, between its use for weapons, armor, seafaring, and mines. I'm reluctant to use it for anything but the latter at the moment, due to how seldom it seems to drop - and I'm reluctant to buy it at market prices because demand has been steadily outstripping supply, and people (generally) aren't stupid. 

    Besides that, I want to be Iron Man. :innocent: 



    Anaria
  • DraekarDraekar Member Posts: 290 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Greys said:
    Maybe time to change what the currency is? Can finally really be the iron realms.
    Iron sovereigns from the Iron Bank of Achaea! I like it
    KasyaKakotasShirszae
  • KezKez Member Posts: 646 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    And lots of cracks about paying the iron price.
    DraekarSarapisKasya
  • KakotasKakotas Member Posts: 264 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I guess I get the Iron-y....
    (Blades of Valour): He just has that Synbios Swagger enough said.
    (Blades of Valour): Draekar says: "Synbios if sunbeams sparkle off that I'll kill you where you stand."

    (Party) Halos says, "Disbar?"
    (Party) Draekar says, "You know here we have disbar."
    (Party) Draekar says, "And over there we have datbar."
    SarapisDochitha
  • SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,561 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Clearly, Sarevok is behind all these iron shortages, so that he can start another inter-city bloodbath and become the new Lord of Murder from all the killing.

    The reference is a clue as to why I have not been present in a while. Well, that, and my almost-finished thesis. Only a few days more to print out the documents and participate in the dreaded 'defense'.

    KakotasSarathai
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Synbios said:
    Clearly, Sarevok is behind all these iron shortages, so that he can start another inter-city bloodbath and become the new Lord of Murder from all the killing.

    The reference is a clue as to why I have not been present in a while. Well, that, and my almost-finished thesis. Only a few days more to print out the documents and participate in the dreaded 'defense'.

    Binky had interesting ideas with his iron shortage, but flawed. For example, putting impurities into the iron? Sounds like the lame idea of some yes-man underling who didn't know when to quit. No doubt he was flogged. But speaking of a good flog, it brings to mind poor Auntie Sara. She too had a master plan to take over Sapience, though hers was considerably less dramatic and involved the use of some tasty recipes for turnip pie and some mind-altering herbs that Auntie Sara had bought from a rather disreputable-looking Eleusian. Do you think she'd listen? You can trust we forestals about as hard as you can newbiekick us (which isn't a whole lot of damage, even if you hit!) if you're one of those dirty city-dwellers... and even then it's not a bad idea to watch out in case the Blackthorn General is having a bad day. But alas, Auntie Sara just cackled in her most Mhaldorian-like way and was determined to carry on with her plan to snap-spam Sapience in aeon. Alas, she was completely undone by an over-the-top exposition she gave to a Luminai spy she had captured... and who subsequently evaded out, of course, before she could have him killed. Not killrooming properly is what villains do, I understand, when they're not busy defiling iron mines (or really just stealing them for themselves). Of course, they say that the Cyrenian Imperiate had already had a bit of Auntie's pie and enjoyed it immensely. Rather than become hypnotised, he just became rather pleasantly obsessed with silken undergarments (not an uncommon obsession in Cyrene). This, of course, led to the first Great Underwear Shortage (very uncommon in Cyrene). It's also known as the Three-Year Wedgie Drought, but that's another story entirely. </Jan>
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



    SynbiosAlrena
  • SynbiosSynbios Member Posts: 4,561 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarathai said:
    Binky had interesting ideas...

    BINKY?! You had best not be addressing me, gnome.

  • AnariaAnaria Member Posts: 184 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Okay seriously, all joking aside, I'm getting a little fed up with this. Its frustrating to spend hours prospecting and see nothing but:

    You are enough of a prospector to realise that iron lodes never spawn and there is no point looking for one.

    This one commodity is used for too many things. It is the Spice Melange of Achaea, and she who controls it, controls the universe! The price of iron on the com market hasn't budged all week and access to iron directly affects the profitability of mining ANY other com.

    At these prices its almost better to just let my ships weapons decay and buy new ones rather than maintain them. I have no problem what so ever finding vacant gold, silver, carbon and obsidian lodes. But if you want iron you better be ready to Kung Fu fight the whole planet for it...
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 2,816 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    There is iron, you just keep missing the spawns, same as the bunch of us. I dare say there's been an increase in spawn rates even. 

     'more iron' is nice, but I think more demand/outlets for the so-called 'precious metal'/rare lodes would be even nicer.  


  • AnariaAnaria Member Posts: 184 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    edited October 2015
    I respectfully disagree. I prospect as I move through each mining camp area and I've seen the number of iron spawns (all taken, of course). 

    The total lack of supply on the market is pretty clear evidence the rate is not high enough. Every single person who mines needs iron, in addition to people who own ships, armour crafters, city improvements, the list goes on and on. If the spawn rate was just changed (I saw no announcement to make me think it was) then maybe I'd say give it a few more days and look at the market again.

    30K for 230 iron to start a large mine - the only viable kind of mine really - is a massive chunk out of the profits of any other com. It also makes for far fewer people willing to build mines on small lodes, which means that quite a few of those small lodes are a waste of space that nobody wants to pay the bill to clean up.

    I agree there should be some reason why the average player would want gold, silver and platinum...but that is very hard to do. I'd hate to see those commodities suddenly become important for totally artificial or illogical reasons. 
  • SkyeSkye The Duchess BellatereMember, Seafaring Liason Posts: 2,816 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited October 2015
    A lot of cities have citizens mining iron that will never see the market because they sell direct back to the city. There are also hoarders who keep a large supply of stock in spare and only release controlled quantities to the market to ensure stable prices. I took about a week off from mining/prospecting when I was making the push to dragon and I can definitely say that the number of iron mines I see (taken or not) looks more than before.

    At one point you would only see a few iron mines scattered around and you wouldn't expect another relode until those mines were all but gone. Now you can still find iron reloding without those mines getting depleted. I don't disagree that more iron would be good because everyone needs it, but it's also these limits that help maintain prices instead of a total market collapse. Bearing in mind that mining even with your own comms isn't cheap. I also feel like I have to point out that just like any other lode, there's an element of luck in it as well. You also need to develop good relations with other miners as a rogue otherwise nobody will tell you shit. 

    We just had an iron spawn with a ton of iron mines still standing. And I wouldn't have known about it if mining friends didn't tell me. 


    Taraus
  • RangorRangor Member Posts: 3,188 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    we need more gilded weaponry! Let us fire golden bolts of lightning upon our enemies, rather than rusted bolts of depression.
    image
    Kasya
  • GrandueGrandue Member Posts: 382 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Iron is spawning more frequently. Start assaulting if you want it and can't find it before others do. 

    ice/gems/gold/silver/platinum all need more uses. They are currently the least profitable commodities to mine when you factor in upkeep costs
  • DraekarDraekar Member Posts: 290 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited October 2015
    There is a lot more Iron spawning, it hasn't really made a change to the market yet, but it also has the largest hole to fill so it won't be a sudden change.

    It probably could do with another increase though.
    Kakotas
  • GreysGreys Member, Seafaring Liason Posts: 713 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Iron prices have been steadily going downward. As Grandue mentioned, there are several comms like platinum that are just not worth mining given they are actually too abundant relative to their consumption. The issue is that its hard to get lodes if you do not have a network of people. Greys has people he regularly points out lodes to and in turn will get a heads up when lodes appear. You also need to track when lodes are completing so new ones will likely pop up.
  • DochithaDochitha Member Posts: 1,391 @ - Epic Achaean
    Even if you do get the lodes, you need some connections to sell them profitably and in bulk. First you get a mine, then you try to get rid of the comms.

    If you are stuck with comms and willing to sell them 50% off CM, hit me up IG.
  • LisbethaeLisbethae Member Posts: 176 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Could use some silver lodes, I know a lot of cities are hurting for it.
  • GrandueGrandue Member Posts: 382 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Let's let things ride for a while before we start adjusting things. If people are intentionally trying to corner a market to raise the price to a more profitable ROI it completely negates their efforts if we just keep increasing the spawn rate of commodities. There are currently enough commodities being produced to provide the comms for every city's annual upkeep plus a lot more. I say we wait a few more years before continuing to increase spawn rates. 

    When we see an increase in the number of people mining we'll see an increase in iron and stone usage. Which will raise the price of those commodities. When a new person begins working on leveling up their forging you are going to see an increase in demand for those commodities and this a rise in price. These are natural and predictable economic principles and they should be allowed to be played out instead of just increasing the spawn rate of everything. What if one city has been focusing on stockpiling their silver storage? Other cities are going to need silver, they can either work deals to get that silver, become more proficient at mining to get the silver or some other way. If you just increase silver spawn that negates a lot of more interesting things that could have taken place. 
    JosoulShirszae
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