Quick Combat Questions

Jhui

ya but the downsides for snb are:

runie: runeblades aren't too useful, runeblade procs are halved.  Can't gecko/slike
infernal: can't epseth/epteth  or even raze/epteth for super vivi pressure.  Can't gecko/slike
pallie: can't gecko/disloyalty (not huge here) or gecko/slike

Can't rsl with a pwner battleaxe as snb.  not sure why you're saying the rsl equiv is better for snb

The two specs are just different.  It's hard to compare because SNB opens up stuff on it's own and dwc opens up stuff for each class spec.

Aerek

DWC RSL is good for damage, but is a full second slower than DSL and allows me almost two herb cures if I need to get some affs off, so that's a valid trade. S&B's Combo'able Raze delivers affs through shield/rebound at no speed penalty, or does similar damage to Baxe RSL via tower shield, or opens me up to prone/blackout abuse. DWC RSL has tradeoffs. S&B's Raze has none.

I agree that the two specs are similar-just-different, and I like them that way, but DWC is both lower damage and very hinderable. S&B is high damage and far less hinderable. I don't think the disadvantages you mention, while significant, justify that, especially with S&B's traditional finishers being as nasty as they are.

Jhui

i think snb needs that kind of upside for runie/infernal in order to consider choosing it over dwc.

Otherwise, it's a no brainer.

SNB probably the way to go as pallie though for sure.

If anything make the other specs better (increasing rsl speed, etc).  I wouldn't suggest nerfing a fun spec.

Ahmet

Tagging @Sena for the numbers portion

How much does each mental affliction increase accentato damage by, and (I'm assuming so, but) if I envenom for a mental aff, does it affect the same hit's accentato?

EDIT: Also, with the new denizen affs, do they affect accentato? If not, smells like a bug to me!  

Aerek

I feel you, and to take a step back, I don't actually think RSL vs Combo Raze is the problem. The real issue, that Dunn mentioned last page and I've mentioned elsewhere, is that S&B's damage and DPS is just superior to all the other Knights by a fair margin. Even with forged gear, S&B is just as fast as I am, hurts worse than I do, and can't hindered like I can. When I face a boarder with an artefact sword and SoA, that damage simply becomes unmanageable (For me, unartefacted, but Dragon level with fullplate and Algiz). I can't tank it, I can't hinder it, I can't Shield/Rebound against it, and I can't really run through Engage/Gular/Isaz/Piety/Ghands, so something's gotta give.

If S&B didn't hit like a Mack truck with the speed and handling of a Maserati, I could probably deal with everything else.

Cynlael

Ahmet said:

EDIT: Also, with the new denizen affs, do they affect accentato? If not, smells like a bug to me!  

I'd have to say no to this, and also no to it being a bug. The mob affs aren't really counted as either, because they're all cured by time (or consumption via other attacks).

Cooper

You can hinder  S&B, if they are using dedication they are taking big damage. Even as artied infernal I can't use dedication against damage classes that have access to paralysis, it's suicide. Clumsy/weakness are also available, as are shield and rebounding like normal. Saying they don't lose damage or affliction momentum when raze/smashing is just not accurate.

Vakvyr

Raze/Smash mid lets me keep a lot of chains on, or at least it's fast enough for me to easily put them back on. I haven't found a whole lot of need for dedication because usually I'm the one keeping people paralysed forever. The DPS does need adjusting in my opinion. I feel that sometimes dropping a hugalaz and a thurisaz or two before just bashing someone out is more effective than trying to disembowel.

I don't know why 2h hasn't been mentioned. It's really strong if the opponent gets behind even slightly. It screws with other knights, or at least SnB, very hard.

Aerek

@Cooper You're not wrong, but it's also not accurate to say that S&B is equally affected by those things as other classes, either. When I say "can't hinder" or "doesn't lose momentum" I mean "S&B is less affected by these methods of hindering than other classes of similar fighting styles". Dedication does mitigate paralysis when they want it to, clumsiness doesn't affect shield attacks, and S&B Raze is faster and more versatile than anyone else's shieldbreaker.

I'm not trying to take all those things away, I'm agreeing with Dunn and Kenway that the damage could use toning down, and pointing out why that high damage is an issue.

@Vakvyr 2H is brutal, yeah, but it's pretty easily hindered. I always hated fighting S&B as 2H because liberal use of paralysis/clumsiness could shut me down pretty hard if I got unlucky with the clumsy procs.

Drodak

I have a question about artefact pipes. With the artefact promo looking so crisp, I've been kinda making an artefact priority list. I'm definitely not Captain Combat so my knowledge is fairly limited on this kind of thing but I like to educate myself before taking action when possible.

So far as I can tell the pipes might be useful in certain situations when you cannot do an action leading to no lit pipe. The slip could cause not being able to smoke a critical cure leading to death or least that is my concern. So my question is with svo lighting pipes pretty seamlessly, does this situation occur enough to make arte pipes anything more than an occasional luxury? I feel I may be underestimating the value of these things so if anyone could share some insight based on experience I'd appreciate it.

Tharvis

Aeon, for example

Sena

Ahmet said:

How much does each mental affliction increase accentato damage by

I was pretty sure I saw some useful numbers posted on the forums, but I can't find it anywhere. So I don't have any specifics.

Atalkez

Drodak said:

I have a question about artefact pipes. With the artefact promo looking so crisp, I've been kinda making an artefact priority list. I'm definitely not Captain Combat so my knowledge is fairly limited on this kind of thing but I like to educate myself before taking action when possible.

So far as I can tell the pipes might be useful in certain situations when you cannot do an action leading to no lit pipe. The slip could cause not being able to smoke a critical cure leading to death or least that is my concern. So my question is with svo lighting pipes pretty seamlessly, does this situation occur enough to make arte pipes anything more than an occasional luxury? I feel I may be underestimating the value of these things so if anyone could share some insight based on experience I'd appreciate it.

Also helps against strategies where your pipe suddenly is missing. Wasn't my first artie but it was definitely a priority against all the occies at the time.

Drodak

Tharvis said:

Aeon, for example

For example what?
You get hit with aeon on 1/50 chance the moment your elm pipe goes out and have to deal with..you move sluggishly into action light pipe..you move sluggishly into action smoke elm? 

To be clear I feel artie pipes arent worth the 150 credit for a triple set or 300 for the full set. At best maybe worth getting an elm pipe? If you have a good script to handle it that is. I know pipes are fairly cheap and all but still those 50cr pops add up. I am all ears if anyone disagrees though because I don't have enough game time to be sure I'm right.

Klendathu

If you don't see the value in an artefact, don't buy it, and don't feel pressured to. (The supplementary to that is to not complain about those who do and have)

Arditi

Klendathu said:

If you don't see the value in an artefact, don't buy it, and don't feel pressured to. (The supplementary to that is to not complain about those who do and have)

Unless it's veils. You're always allowed to complain about veils.

Drodak

I'm just min/maxing more than anything. If I'm spot on than I go about dreaming of cooler purchases. No biggie, I doubt I can justify sweet talking my wife into being cool with more gaming money this month anyways. I just bought remastered Dark souls 2 on ps4 and an arte sword on Achaea. Definitely wouldn't frown on things others buy for their own game experience though.

Antonius

Drodak said:

Tharvis said:

Aeon, for example

For example what?
You get hit with aeon on 1/50 chance the moment your elm pipe goes out and have to deal with..you move sluggishly into action light pipe..you move sluggishly into action smoke elm? 

To be clear I feel artie pipes arent worth the 150 credit for a triple set or 300 for the full set. At best maybe worth getting an elm pipe? If you have a good script to handle it that is. I know pipes are fairly cheap and all but still those 50cr pops add up. I am all ears if anyone disagrees though because I don't have enough game time to be sure I'm right.

It may be a relatively small chance, but it's worth avoiding since you can. You might not bother buying a full set of pipes, but I'd consider getting at least one for elm.

That extra action to light the pipe before you smoke means they definitely have time to jab to give asthma, at which point you can no longer smoke, so that's yet another action needed to cure out. Suddenly, rather than needing one action to cure asthma - smoke elm - you need at least three actions - light pipe, eat kelp, smoke elm (assuming they don't get to also apply anorexia before you can eat kelp).

Klendathu

Daeir said:

Arditi said:

Klendathu said:

If you don't see the value in an artefact, don't buy it, and don't feel pressured to. (The supplementary to that is to not complain about those who do and have)

Unless it's veils. You're always allowed to complain about veils.

GRRR VEILS

Git good, scrubs

Arador

Klendathu said:

Daeir said:

Arditi said:

Klendathu said:

If you don't see the value in an artefact, don't buy it, and don't feel pressured to. (The supplementary to that is to not complain about those who do and have)

Unless it's veils. You're always allowed to complain about veils.

GRRR VEILS

Git rich, scrubs

Fixed

Jhui

Anyone have the limb formula for tekura for each kick/punch for target health?  @Jacen @Penwize

Jacen

Crap I said I'd post them in the Quick Questions thread and forgot. I'll post it on my lunch break

Jacen

tobreak = targethealth

tekura_attacks = {

["Hammerfist"] = 0.0809*tobreak*knucklefactor + 227,

["Spear"] = 0.0809*tobreak*knucklefactor + 227,

["Hook"] = 0.0809*tobreak*knucklefactor + 227,

["Uppercut"] = 0.082*tobreak*knucklefactor + 250,

["Whirlwind"] = 0.166*tobreak + 412,

["Sidekick"] = 0.196*tobreak + 516,

["Moonkick"] = 0.166*tobreak + 412,

["Snapkick"] = 0.166*tobreak + 412,

}

* The knucklefactor (1.0, 1.15, 1.25, 1.35) multiplier location in the formula I'm not too sure about. Based on some data @Penwize threw at me, knucklefactor multiplies only the scaling portion of the formula. Based on my own data, it multiplies the static portion. I really don't have enough data to say for certain either way, since there's still error in the above formulas (generally about 5% or so).

Feel free to report any instances where the above formulas don't work, and I'll try to adjust it accordingly.

Jhui

Thanks!

Kuy

In regards to serpent, does anyone have the dirk/dex stats to max out dstab speed at varying levels of dirk and dex?  I remember someone posting the comprehensive min/max list, but I can't find it and I'm curious

Sena

Base dstab balance is 2.8s, every point of dex above 13 is -0.1s balance, every level of artefact dirk is -0.2s. Minimum balance is 2s with a L3 dirk, 2.1s otherwise. All of that is before nimble.

So then:
Forged dirk: 20 dex to hit speed cap
L1 dirk: 18 dex
L2 dirk: 16 dex
L3 dirk: 15 dex (and a faster cap)

Exelethril

How much extra EQ balance time on restore per limb does Sawbones equate to? Does that mean I can get vivi'd if I use the restore and apply mending to heal on a leg break strat?

Jacen

Jacen said:

 tobreak = targethealth

tekura_attacks = {

["Hammerfist"] = 0.0809*tobreak + 227*knucklefactor,

["Spear"] = 0.0809*tobreak + 227*knucklefactor,

["Hook"] = 0.0809*tobreak + 227*knucklefactor,

["Uppercut"] = 0.082*tobreak + 250*knucklefactor,

["Whirlwind"] = 0.166*tobreak + 412,

["Sidekick"] = 0.196*tobreak + 516,

["Moonkick"] = 0.166*tobreak + 412,

["Snapkick"] = 0.166*tobreak + 412,

}

Updated to move the knucklefactor multiplier over to the static portion, which works better with the data I've received from @Rekhyr. @Penwize, this doesn't match up with that data you got from breaking Deladan (as far as I remember) so we need to get together and churn out some more data at some point.

@Jhui so you'll see the new formula

Again, feel free to report any instances where the above formulas don't work, and I'll try to adjust it accordingly.

Jhui

thanks, the old one was working pretty solid with level 2 knuckles except for a few healths that I saw around the 5.1k-5.6k range.  Hopefully, this fixes that.  I will let you know what I find!

Decron

Alright im just wondering seeing how Sentinel lost reflexes, could a artie (say like a lvl 3 knuckles) replace it or not really?