Quick Combat Questions

Tael

@Sena: Nevermind. I can't do basic math.

Regardless, here's the same plot from before with the fixed numbers - the crucial comparison doesn't change: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=graph+y=(x*2(.8)+(1-x)*(.8))/.9+and+y=x*2*1+(1-x)*1+for+0<x<1

In terms of crit rate, speed only matters insofar as it is one factor in determining DPS. Faster attacks don't do anything special to your DPS with crits that they don't do to your DPS without.

Sena

Tael said:

Sena said:

It would be different with a massive speed difference (I would easily give up 11% DPS for half balance), but Thyr isn't that much faster than Sanya.

Do you just mean for the defensive advantage of being able to run/shield more quickly?

With denizen health so much higher and killing blows such a small proportion of overall damage, I don't think I would ever give up 11% DPS for half balance.

Even if overkill is less of an issue*, a more even distribution of crits is still an advantage, and then there's the defensive advantage, and the very slight advantage of getting battlerage in smaller increments (cutting my eq in half would frequently let me use a battlerage attack ~1.8 seconds sooner, when I'm being limited by battlerage generation rather than cooldowns).

*It does still makes a difference though, especially at/near dragon when world-shattering crits can make up more than 1/40 of your attacks.

Tael

I still find it hard to imagine that the DPS gain from all of that would be greater than 11%. You'd save, on average, half of the original balance time on each kill (and nothing on the kills where the final few health take three hits where the higher damage attack would have taken one on account of the 11% higher DPS). Even with a very high crit rate, given how much health denizens have now, that adding up to more than 11% higher DPS seems far-fetched. Slightly less I suppose with the battlerage advantage. But still.

I suppose it would depend on how risky the areas you're hunting in are (how useful the defensive advantage and the more predictable crit distribution is).

Ahmet

Tael said:

I still find it hard to imagine that the DPS gain from all of that would be greater than 11%. You'd have to spend more than 11% of your total damage overkilling, which seems like an awful lot, even with a very high crit rate, given how much health denizens have now. Slightly less I suppose with the battlerage advantage. But still.

I suppose it would depend on how risky the areas you're hunting in are (how useful the defensive advantage and the more predictable crit distribution is).

It's always comforting to know that I wasted my WSC on a weaker attack when the denizen was at 2%, as opposed to a stronger attack when the denizen was at 2%.  

Atalkez

Thanks for clearing that up. I had always assumed faster equates to more hits, crits, and damage.

I use Sanya and Mir nearly exclusively personally.

Erudite

@sena Ah, thank you for explaining, I figured I was missing something

Tael

Ahmet said:

Tael said:

I still find it hard to imagine that the DPS gain from all of that would be greater than 11%. You'd have to spend more than 11% of your total damage overkilling, which seems like an awful lot, even with a very high crit rate, given how much health denizens have now. Slightly less I suppose with the battlerage advantage. But still.

I suppose it would depend on how risky the areas you're hunting in are (how useful the defensive advantage and the more predictable crit distribution is).

It's always comforting to know that I wasted my WSC on a weaker attack when the denizen was at 2%, as opposed to a stronger attack when the denizen was at 2%.  

It's worth remembering that you are not "wasting" crits. Getting a WSC doesn't reduce the likelihood of getting a WSC on your next crit.

The quoted part of mine is also wrong (which is why I edited it). The advantage higher crit rate lends you is that it increases your effective DPS, which means you can kill with lighter, faster attacks and move on to the next target sooner. Doing that you gain, at most, the difference in the balance times of the attacks, once per denizen. It can add up and, when you used to be able to kill things so spectacularly fast, it was clearly a huge DPS gain, but it's a lot more suspect now that a much lower percentage of your attacks will be killing blows in the first place. When you're getting a lot of crits and you have attacks with a big discrepancy in speed (and a not-so-huge discrepancy in DPS), it might end up being high enough that it's still worth it, but the benefit is definitely a lot lower now.

The actual amount of damage you spend overkilling doesn't matter though - just whether you could have killed with a faster attack instead.

Cynlael

Wtb overkill from lusternia/aetolia, where if you get a crit on something that does an 'overkill' amount, then that leftover damage is added to your next attack.

Mob on 150 hp -> You crit it for 900
->Next attack on a new mob does +750 damage.


@Tecton/@Sarapis pls. Survival ability, not in something lesser like weaponry.

Austere

Cynlael said:

Wtb overkill from lusternia/aetolia, where if you get a crit on something that does an 'overkill' amount, then that leftover damage is added to your next attack.

Mob on 150 hp -> You crit it for 900
->Next attack on a new mob does +750 damage.


@Tecton/@Sarapis pls. Survival ability, not in something lesser like weaponry.

Make it a major trait.  Give us more options, not requirements 

Cynlael

It would be a requirement regardless, if you want to hunt a lot. Survival is a skill you learn anyway, so why not? Aetolia/Lusternia, it's learned not too long after clotting/insomnia is. Which I think is a good amount.

Noak

Question: What's the proper way to cure Apostate affliction momentum? Is it prioritizing impatience over paralysis at a certain point? It seems like after two paralysis cures I'm stacked with hellsight/impatience/asthma/evil stain and it's all over shortly after that.

Dunn

Have a few prio swaps so you're not curing paralysis static. That's bad news. I currently prio imp if para/asthma and not tempered (because fuck alchemists). Better to lose some of your own momentum briefly and not get locked. 

Mizik

Asthma on Hellsight is a must.

Exelethril

If you have passive healing spells, don't forget to use them too.

Noak

Mizik said:

Asthma on Hellsight is a must.

Prioritizing asthma over hellsight and paralysis? Or just hellsight?

Jarrod

Prioritizing asthma when you have hellsight.

Decron

Is Monk still good at bashing and pvp? just wondering (and no im not switching, it was just a question)

Austere

Decron said:

Is Monk still good at bashing and pvp? just wondering (and no im not switching, it was just a question)

Compared to what and what kind of pvp. All the classes are designed to be functional and be good at pvp and bashing. When they are not, classleads are opened a couple times a year to correct any imbalances. Monks have incredible damage absorbance and ranged attacks.  Choke was nerfed to give hold breath last classlead, so that would be my only concern with monk at the moment. 

Cynlael

Bashing they're pretty shit now, moreso when unartifacted.
*Knuckles + 16/17str, Thiev was doing less damage than a 12-13str Sentinel with a stock trident was. Even with crits it was still awful. Definitely a shadow of what it once was, I think Penwize uses an arti axe now instead of kicking for a decent dps increase.

   *-Knuckles bugged right now, and not increasing pve damage. Still wouldn't bump them up much, though.

Jhui

Ya monk bashing is pretty bad right now

Austere

Seperate, unrelated question(because using numb for most bashing is asking to die, imo): how long does numb last, and what's the reduction on total damage?  I am thinking 10 seconds and 2/3s, but I have no clue.  

Sena

It reduces the total damage by 40%, and I think it lasts 15 seconds but I'm not 100% sure.

Decron

Whats the best spot to hunt/bash when your lvl 50? because Manara is giving me little experience. I die in the lower levels of Manara so I can't do those.

Ahmet

Decron said:

Whats the best spot to hunt/bash when your lvl 50? because Manara is giving me little experience. I die in the lower levels of Manara so I can't do those.

Perhaps try the goblin village?

EDIT: Ka'doloki is also decent.

Amranu

Can we move the bashing questions to Quick Questions instead? I think it's pretty obvious this thread is meant for discussion of PvP related things.

Isaiah

Can someone remind me, what is the RNG for aff tick times after the first one when snapped with hypnosis? I think it's between 3-4s but I can't remember.

Brean

Am I missing something in the combination syntax?

combination target slice head prefarar smash high is the line is the line I'm using, everything works except the venom.  My echo comes back fine and the command executes, just no venom.

Austere

Are you out of prefarar by chance? 

Brean

I am not, and just walked through some testing with @Tesha...it's broke, so I'm bugging it

Arador

Please address this with care. It is a sensitive matter.