Quick Combat Questions

Exelethril

Well, off-side is that firelash ground doesn't require a $300 investment and assuming you're fighting a quick-witted class, they'll win the freeze/firelash ground balance war.

Atalkez

Exelethril said:

Well, off-side is that firelash ground doesn't require a $300 investment and assuming you're fighting a quick-witted class, they'll win the freeze/firelash ground balance war.

And give free impale when they do.

Exelethril

Is there a huge difference between a level 3 rapier and a level 2 rapier in terms of co-ordinating voicecraft/jabs?

Antonius

Voicecraft balance is jab balance + x, so absolutely none.

Dochitha

Antonius said:

Voicecraft balance is jab balance + x, so absolutely none.

I didn't get it... Can you explain?

Antonius

Voicecraft (sing) balance was changed a while ago to relate to the balance time of your jab. It's a set amount - I think 0.4 seconds - slower than your jab - e.g. if your jab balance is 2 seconds, your voicecraft balance will be 2.4 seconds. Going from a level two rapier to a level three rapier will reduce your jab speed, and in turn reduce your sing balance time, but it won't make the two balance times line up any better because sing will always be 0.4 seconds slower.

Exelethril

Oh okay, the AB files are a bit confusing then because they list each Voicecraft skill as 3 secs of voice balance.

Exelethril

In general, does Receptive Body(additional sip bonus) or Robust(+1 Con) grant more tankiness? 

How much extra bonus % health sip does Receptive Body give?

Sena

For PvE, robust is always better. For PvP, robust is usually better, except against 100% health-scaling attacks where higher con gives no benefit.

Receptive body is a 5% sip bonus.

Dochitha

Sena said:

For PvE, robust is always better. For PvP, robust is usually better, except against 100% health-scaling attacks where higher con gives no benefit.

Receptive body is a 5% sip bonus.

I tested both, robust is definitely better. Higher health means more sip, more regen, more moss, higher break point, destroys ppl morale etc

Xinna

Antonius said:

Voicecraft (sing) balance was changed a while ago to relate to the balance time of your jab. It's a set amount - I think 0.4 seconds - slower than your jab - e.g. if your jab balance is 2 seconds, your voicecraft balance will be 2.4 seconds. Going from a level two rapier to a level three rapier will reduce your jab speed, and in turn reduce your sing balance time, but it won't make the two balance times line up any better because sing will always be 0.4 seconds slower.

It's a lot closer to Jab +1 than Jab +.4.

Jab and voice don't need to line up though, since you can both Jab off voice bal and sing off Jab bal (some classes have more difficulties, such as educe/wrack, smite/chasten). Level 3 rapier is a ridiculous increase from level two, however, since you get probably around .2 seconds faster in both Jab and voice. It's a substantially higher affliction speed.

Exelethril

Ouch, really? Is the +5 attack speed modifier not accurate then? 

Xinna

Exelethril said:

Ouch, really? Is the +5 attack speed modifier not accurate then? 

Not sure what you mean by this. It's accurate.

Exelethril

I thought +10 speed equals 0.1 seconds faster balance, so +5 speed would only be a difference of 0.05 seconds.

Hmm, 0.2 secs is a massive difference but $120 USD extra. Guess I have a lot of bashing to do.

Dairon

Exelethril said:

I thought +10 speed equals 0.1 seconds faster balance, so +5 speed would only be a difference of 0.05 seconds.

Hmm, 0.2 secs is a massive difference but $120 USD extra. Guess I have a lot of bashing to do.

Better than level 3 dirk, which is 0.1 seconds for the same price. 

Xinna

Exelethril said:

I thought +10 speed equals 0.1 seconds faster balance, so +5 speed would only be a difference of 0.05 seconds.

Hmm, 0.2 secs is a massive difference but $120 USD extra. Guess I have a lot of bashing to do.

It's -definitely- not only .1 for 10 points. It might be .1 or .15 for 5 points - .2 was a total guess. This is the case across the board for weaponry though. Not sure the exact formula. Lvl 3 is ~1.5 secs and unartied is ~2 secs. These are rough estimates since no Xinna anymore to test.

Klendathu

Xinna said:

Exelethril said:

I thought +10 speed equals 0.1 seconds faster balance, so +5 speed would only be a difference of 0.05 seconds.

Hmm, 0.2 secs is a massive difference but $120 USD extra. Guess I have a lot of bashing to do.

It's -definitely- not only .1 for 10 points. It might be .1 or .15 for 5 points - .2 was a total guess. This is the case across the board for weaponry though. Not sure the exact formula. Lvl 3 is ~1.5 secs and unartied is ~2 secs. These are rough estimates since no Xinna anymore to test.

I agree with Xinna's numbers, it's around 1.5 with a level 3

Aerek

Yeah, I've always used a rough estimate of +5 points = -.1 seconds just as a rule of thumb, but the actual back-end equations are definitely not that simple or convenient. Did not realize Soulpiercers were ~1.5 jabs, though, that's intense.

Dochitha

Aerek said:

Yeah, I've always used a rough estimate of +5 points = -.1 seconds just as a rule of thumb, but the actual back-end equations are definitely not that simple or convenient. Did not realize Soulpiercers were ~1.5 jabs, though, that's intense.

1.5s makes me wanna go bard.

Nylian

Chasing - I suck at it, and have had a few suggestions, anything else that will help?

Bind movement to numpad
Use detect/farsee and auto-goto
Trigger following on enemy movement

I tend to hamstring when they have pre-impaleslash so I have an easier time chasing, but when I fight against some of the much better combatants, when I run, they are on me faster than I know how to chase others.

Eld

Nylian said:

Chasing - I suck at it, and have had a few suggestions, anything else that will help?

Bind movement to numpad
Use detect/farsee and auto-goto
Trigger following on enemy movement

I tend to hamstring when they have pre-impaleslash so I have an easier time chasing, but when I fight against some of the much better combatants, when I run, they are on me faster than I know how to chase others.

I'm also pretty terrible at chasing people, so no real suggestions for you there. But regarding hamstring, you'll generally be better off using it before you impaleslash, rather than after (not clear from your wording whether that's what you meant). More generally, unless there was a change that I missed, you can keep hamstring up indefinitely (striking hamstring again before it wears off resets the timer), so as far as I know there's no reason not to just keep it active at all times if you can.

Atalkez

It's all a manner of being fluid in your actions. If you're doing something, you have to know in the back of your head what their reaction options are, and what your reactions need to be for each scenario.

Also with hamstring: You'll never come to a point where they still have hamstring after a double break setup, if you're actually going for a bstar. They're always going to have the opportunity to run. So you want to work yourself into kill scenarios that they can't run away from you at all once you initiate the sequence.

For instance: Break Head/Torso with hamstring (you need to have already dismounted, of course) strike (they will either apply to head or torso. 99% of the time they will apply to head here). Your next balance will be a legslash for a double break with a knee strike. So they have three options immediately on your headbreak (assuming they're not one balance away from a lock or kill themselves): Shield, Fly, or Run. (or lyre lol, in which case you might as well go hunting.)

Fly: Leaphigh/legslash/prone > on balance land/impale into sequence

Run: 1s delay on the movement, they get a maximum of 1 room away before you can walk in the room and legslash. They could move 1 room then shield.

Shield: Raze/strike knees - tell them thanks for the free impale.

Now, that's what 99% of the populace will do versus that setup. That's not counting people who will ignore head and torso to pre-apply legs, or even icewall on the headbreak then tumbling looping.

Anyway! In regard to chasing people: Make highlights! Lots of them. Make it very prominent and easy to notice which way they walked/tumbled or if they fly. Easy recognition leads to easier responses!

Aerek

Nylian said:

Chasing - I suck at it, and have had a few suggestions, anything else that will help?

Bind movement to numpad
Use detect/farsee and auto-goto
Trigger following on enemy movement

I tend to hamstring when they have pre-impaleslash so I have an easier time chasing, but when I fight against some of the much better combatants, when I run, they are on me faster than I know how to chase others.

Is the issue that you can't see where they went, or that you can't react fast enough to catch them? If you're already using auto-go-to scripts, then I'm not sure how much "better" your actual chasing ability could get, it's more of an awareness or optimization thing. Bear in mind, of course, that running from BM on ImpSlash is kinda the only way to survive them in a lot of cases; if there were legitimate ways for you to catch folks every time, BM would kinda be unsurvivable, so it's important that folks be able to escape if they run well.

There's also the fact that people know that they need to run from you until ImpSlash wears off. Against most other classes, when I run, I just need to step out a room or two to catch up on herb balance, or wait till a limb fixes, but with BM I know I need to keep moving for the entire 30 seconds or you can catch up and finish your setup. In that regard, some of the disparity you're feeling may just be that people are running a little "harder" vs you than you're running vs others, out of necessity.

Cooper

@Exelethril When I answered your question on Warriors, I assumed you were talking about dual cutting.

Exelethril

Np @Cooper, I assumed it was universal. Only several million gold to bash up in my spare time  

Nylian

@Aerek@Atalkez

Thanks to both you very much, I think that explains a lot of what I'm seeing and some of the differences when I'm the chaser vs. when I'm the chasee.   Knowing that what I have left to work on is just practice helps a lot, honestly sometimes it's all I need to hear.

Dochitha

Nylian said:

Chasing - I suck at it, and have had a few suggestions, anything else that will help?

Bind movement to numpad
Use detect/farsee and auto-goto
Trigger following on enemy movement

I tend to hamstring when they have pre-impaleslash so I have an easier time chasing, but when I fight against some of the much better combatants, when I run, they are on me faster than I know how to chase others.

While auto-chasing is good, awareness can always help make decision better. For example, if you are outdoor and they have a RoF, expect them to fly instead of walking way. Everyone has a pattern of escape, when you fight a person more you will notice the pattern, so the next time they run, you don't even have to think.

Exelethril

Are the golden pendulum(250 creds) and tuning fork(200 creds) worth the credits?

Edit : Hmm, doesn't solve the problem of constantly having to re-summon Harmonics when people run though.

Cooper

Tuning fork was worth it for me, and it's good for multiple classes. I think it's more worth it for Paladins, Priests and Magi than it is for Bard though.

Cynlael

Pendulum is definitely worth it. If people pulling an Ernam and running every time you resummon harmonics into your room, after chasing them, just cut your losses and don't bother with them.

Or just play equally bitchy, and never move off your harmonics, and go for prep strat.