Quick Combat Questions

Dochitha

Amranu said:

It's random

Regarding making paralysis less of a thing for Alchemists, why not swap in lethargy over paralysis in the sanguine afflictions, remove the random sanguine temper restriction for that afflict and add paralysis in place of lethargy to inundate phlegmatic?

Don't think paralysis can be appropriately swapped out. People will be curing fluids then, and fluid stack will not progress. Lethargy is also low on most standard prio.

Alchie will need some afflictions high up to buffer the fluids (lethargy prolly won't work for this purpose), affs are the decoy so fluids can stack, being able to lock without phlegmatic is really only possible when enemy has their prio messed up, so itself is not wrong. If it's phlegmatic, it should lock, by design.

But if lethargy indeed gets swapped with paralysis, we will see imbalance surrounding lethargy spam, that I think it cripples other momentum classes fighting against Alchie.

Jovolo

Xinna said:

Problem with that is then people can bound/evade/etc. even after lock, before the alch can paralyse. Could limit para wrack to two sanguine like truewrack is, which would allow for curing tempers first for a while to prevent para wrack from happening. That might actually do a lot.

Or could make wrack affected by clumsy. Some matchups are rough even for current alch though and might be too bad with no para wrack to hinder.

Alternatively, make para wrack just unaffected by the sanguine wrack balance bonus.

It's a good point but it's not like these abilities are available to everyone. Alchemists already get room hinder to stop typical movement. At the end of the day there are two simple solutions in my opinion and then you have to balance around the consequences of those solutions. You either make alchemist offence easier to mitigate with things like shield/rebound/clumsy (I don't personally like this solution because it removes a cool dynamic of alchemist) or you remove their ability to obnoxiously hinder within their momentum offence by adjusting their ability to deliver paralysis into a different part of their kit.

If you take the latter option, other problems like the ones you mentioned pop up. If they're big enough issues, then you can look at trying to balance those factors maybe. 

Dochitha

I think Homun block chance can be brought down at the start of the fight, but it should scale upwards as fluids stacks, it has to be commanded to attack, single target, single instance, affected by disloyalty.

That too, Homun block rate is a mystery to me. I stood and watched Proficy fighting Amranu like an hour, every time Amranu leaves, homun isn't blocking. I also find I am not blocking well against certain people. I am not sure if any skills, avoidance or mount is affecting this, but IG Proficy said it is. Anyone knows? 

Jovolo

Historically it scales with fluid. Nothing else should affect the % chance for you to leave other than abilities that bypass it completely. 

Xinna

There are afflictions that stop it from blocking (if the alch is afflicted), so there are ways to bypass it, as I understand it (didn't test myself), which Amranu uses. It's not the rate itself.

Definitely think alchie combat would be more interesting for both parties without paralysis, though. Maybe just replace para with lethargy, make phleg inundate do para -if- already lethargic (so you still have to stick the same # of affs to truelock), and make passives work at 1 temper for choleric access for tree support. (to allow lock threaten to encourage aff curing when necessary).

Exelethril

Maybe incorporate stuff that can actually hinder an alch's momentum besides softlocking, like disloyalty affecting block/homonculi refuses to obey etc which forces them to cure a certain way.

Xinna

Exelethril said:

Maybe incorporate stuff that can actually hinder an alch's momentum besides softlocking, like disloyalty affecting block/homonculi refuses to obey etc which forces them to cure a certain way.

This is already the case.

Amranu

I don't have disloyalty

Kenway

Xinna said:

Exelethril said:

Maybe incorporate stuff that can actually hinder an alch's momentum besides softlocking, like disloyalty affecting block/homonculi refuses to obey etc which forces them to cure a certain way.

This is already the case.

This isn't super helpful though honestly. The issue is that hom only attacks every 8s and the disloyalty dropping block only applies after the hom attacks the alchemist. So potentially 8s to cure and re-sick hom. How easy is it to get enough aff momentum on an alchemist to stick disloyalty?

Atalkez

I have a hard enough time sticking asthma+clumsiness+gecko let alone monkshood, lol.

Lavakhi

I have handaxe proficiency and I'm practicing targeted axe throws.

You are proficient in the following weapon classes:

Handaxe

Mace

I've had this happen to me 23 times in a row now.
You cock back your arm and throw a throwing axe at Amik's head.

Amik dodges nimbly out of the way.

I've 'searched' to reveal him in case that was the issue. He isn't weaving. 16dex. Trans avoidance.
I've attempted force sit/lie. I've tried heal target insomnia/touch hourglass. throw and touch appear to run off of balance. I don't think touching web will work because of this.

Is there anything I can do to be more successful at axe throwing? Are there other classes I should never throw axes against?

Exelethril

Xinna said:

Exelethril said:

Maybe incorporate stuff that can actually hinder an alch's momentum besides softlocking, like disloyalty affecting block/homonculi refuses to obey etc which forces them to cure a certain way.

This is already the case.

Oh really  What exactly does disloyalty do to their homonculi?

Antonius

@Lavakhi How high is your Weaponry?

Lavakhi

Yep, that's a problem. Makes sense now that I'm looking at it.
I'm only up to "Throw", not even Targetthrow. I'll work on that next.

Cooper

You'll need trans weaponry to utilize throwing axes effectively.

Sylvaria

19 dex, what would be the best dirk to grab my hands on without overspending, or does level 3 still just win?

Eld

Sylvaria said:

19 dex, what would be the best dirk to grab my hands on without overspending, or does level 3 still just win?

Level 3 always wins in the sense that the minimum dstab balance is 2s (not counting nimble, I believe) with Thoth's fang, and 2.1s with anything else. With 19 dex, you'll be at 2.2s with a forged dirk, 2.1s with L1 or L2, and 2s with L3. I'm assuming dstab balance is the only consideration, not sure if there's anything else to think about.

Mizik

From memory when I tested, with Nimble:

Thoth's 15 Dex for 1.7s cap
Spine 16 Dex for 1.8s cap
Assassin's 18 Dex for 1.8s cap

The incentive for Thoth's is the extra .1s, which allows you to immediately outpace herb, while affording you more stat points outside of dex. Con for survival, Str for backstab.

Ridiculously high Dex will give you faster Garrote, Phase, Backstab.

Mizik

@Lavakhi just target none, you should be reasonably fine. You don't require Trans just to throw untargeted, that wouldn't be reasonable, as hand axes have fairly high to hit. 

Austere

Mizik said:

From memory when I tested, with Nimble:

Thoth's 15 Dex for 1.7s cap
Spine 16 Dex for 1.8s cap
Assassin's 18 Dex for 1.8s cap

The incentive for Thoth's is the extra .1s, which allows you to immediately outpace herb, while affording you more stat points outside of dex. Con for survival, Str for backstab.

Ridiculously high Dex will give you faster Garrote, Phase, Backstab.

So would you actually recommend thoth's? I didn't see the math for it being worthwhile, but I always figured perfect herb balance usage.  Herb balance is 1.6, right? 

Atalkez

Herb should be 1.5

Kafziel

Atalkez said:

Herb should be 1.5

I think it was but was increased when raja double fast balance was removed

Maybe I'm crazy tho

Austere

Atalkez said:

Herb should be 1.5

It's very possible. I tested it like three years ago and was averaging 1.6, but ping can be an ass

Eld

Mizik said:

From memory when I tested, with Nimble:

Thoth's 15 Dex for 1.7s cap
Spine 16 Dex for 1.8s cap
Assassin's 18 Dex for 1.8s cap

The incentive for Thoth's is the extra .1s, which allows you to immediately outpace herb, while affording you more stat points outside of dex. Con for survival, Str for backstab.

Ridiculously high Dex will give you faster Garrote, Phase, Backstab.

Hm, I was just going by some numbers @Sena posted a while back, which could be outdated, but she had the cap at 2s with Thoth's and 2.1s without, which would be 1.8s or 1.9s with nimble. I haven't played a serpent since the dex-dependence was introduced, so haven't done any testing of my own; would be good to know whether it's 1.8 or 1.7. 

Sena

The dstab numbers I have are from Makarios, and I don't remember any changes being announced, so Thoth's cap should still be 2s base and 1.8s with nimble.

Jovolo

Herb has bee  1.6 for years. Kafziel is correct

Mizik

True. Mine were observed from testing on the UK test server. Adjust the .1 for latency. With Spine now my balance echoes display consistent 1.8s.

@Austere if I can afford it, yeah I'd take Thoth's just so I can bump my Con up by one. It makes it so you don't have to lock yourself into Raja. Plus, the .1 gain over several stabs - after 5 stabs you're up a full half second over Spine. With flay venom now, Serpents now not only not lose momentum, Thoth's buffers every aff by .1 per stab.

Spine is still fast enough to kill anything, but repetitive Thoth's affords room for error.

Exelethril

Is lyre guard bashing a bug or meant to be part of the game?

Rilliam

I am just getting started on my Alchemist but I am interested in building towards doing some PK. Any hints while I'm making my way through the early levels?

Kiet

Exelethril said:

Is lyre guard bashing a bug or meant to be part of the game?

If it was a bug, it's been in so long it's effectively a mechanic now.