Quick Combat Questions

Xinna

Who considers standing still "bitchy"? Running in circles is tiring.

I never called harms much midfight as bard, so not sure I got my money's worth out of pendulum.

Exelethril

Well, bought both of them anyway. Hopefully no buyer's remorse  

Cynlael

The combination of both are amazing for hunting, if you don't get much combat use from them, at the very least. Just another thing that makes bard even sillier.

Exelethril

Is illness/euphorbia bypass only meant for knight classes? Doesn't seem to work with bard.

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/3786a0dc

Atalkez

It is knight only yes.

Eld

Exelethril said:

Is illness/euphorbia bypass only meant for knight classes? Doesn't seem to work with bard.

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/3786a0dc

Only weaponmastery attacks, I believe. The source of the affliction doesn't matter, though.

Exelethril

Dang it.

Calira

Exelethril said:

Is illness/euphorbia bypass only meant for knight classes? Doesn't seem to work with bard.

You can bypass parry easily enough with sing epic/jab, or with timing attacks to land right after Percussia.

Anedhel

I was sad about nausea not working for other classes, too!

Arador

Well we were sad for 400 years of not having a parry bypass. So suck it.

Aegoth

#Magipls

Aerek

Hate to be that guy, but Knights had at least 8 bypass methods to use against different opponents since rapiers became the norm, and Infernals in particular could abuse Restore as parry bypass that could not be avoided. (The alternative was death) Really only Runewardens suffered because they didn't have Piety/Gravehands to stop running at key moments after non-leg limb breaks, but that only mattered against fighters who really knew their shit. Parry was not a problem in regard to 90% of the population.

Not that the euphorbia bypass isn't great, (it is) but it really just simplified what we could already do with curare/gecko. Plus, it's still only 1 of about 7 modern bypass methods, and that's just for DWC. Anyone who struggled with parry before it (especially Infernal, sorry) just wasn't doing their homework.

Back on topic, yeah, Epic/Jab gives Bards all the parry bypass I can imagine them needing. There are other ways, but Epic/Jab is easy, guaranteed, and doesn't make you use epteth/epseth shenanigans.

Arador

Affliction tricks where you spend 6-30 seconds in order to get one hit past parry is not a parry bypass. Neither is setting up and breaking a limb in order to get to other limbs. 

You can not even start to compare those to things like airfist, sweep kick, etc. If they were, we would not have needed something like the current nausea bypass. 

Xinna

Yeah. "Possible" is different than "reasonable." Knight prep time was ridiculous vs good parrying. Compare to, say, monk/BM - they get way too many kill attempts before the knight gets one.

Aerek

We're just gonna have to disagree on that. I've played Knight nearly as long as you have, and I only ever struggled with the top 5% of Mark-level fighters who just knew all the tricks and how to stop them. Those people were frustrating and why the new knight features are great, but everyone else died, because there are enough parry bypasses that almost no one knows them all, so it's just a matter of trying different ones until you find one they don't counter. And when Wessux went Infernal we both laughed at how easy it was to get around parry. Double-arm break into Restore, followed by delph and epseth loops prepped entire parried limbs in one go, unstoppable unless the opponent wanted to get Vivisected. It just took patience, and people are lazy; they just want to break leg/AXK FTW, or nuke you with Electrify/Shockwave. A lot of good abilities have gone underappreciated and several classes have been labeled "underpowered" because folks refuse to settle in and play the long game or explore their options.

By your definition, euphorbia is still an "affliction trick" that takes 6-8 seconds to stick (3-4 DSLs through Tree/Shrugging/Passive curing) sometimes only gets one hit through (if prio'ed high) and is still difficult to use against hinder-heavy classes like Apostate, Alchemist, and Serpent. Sure, euphorbia is better than the old curare/gecko trick (3 DSLs for a 100% shot VS 4 DSLs for a 50% chance) but it's not really that different, and I still use other bypasses often when euphorbia has trouble sticking.

Long(er) prep times leading up to hard(er)-to-avoid finishers is part of knights' balance. Yeah, that disparity shouldn't be -too- large and I've voiced concerns about it before, and yeah, Monk bypasses parry easy, but most of us can survive an AXK or two. With artefacted strength, no one survives DSB, so the longer prep times and tougher parry is reasonable. (Blademaster is definitely an exception to the rule here, short prep times for strong finishers, it's nuts)

I'm not saying euphorbia is a bad addition, it's a great addition, and it helps deal with that minority of opponents who were, in the pre-euphorbia game, almost knight-proof. But to say Knights had "no parry bypass" until Euph's introduction is just a tragic exaggeration that implies some unwillingness to explore all the tools we did have at our disposal.

Driden

Serpents dont have parry bypass. Dont see us whining. JK JK  *hides*

Exelethril

Does anyone have the limb damage value of Acciacatura? Is it 60-70%?

Driden

so if someone could give me advice on this strategy i am interested in trying out. 

basicly 

break leg with shatter or anyway really

prone with double delph

mount up and trample 

snap for forced restore and then hypnosis chain. 

execute and hope for the best!

ideas flaws knowledge all needed. post away!

Matias

1) Someone can stop you shattering easy enough.

2) Blissful Ignorance could eat the force restore.

Morsul

On a scale of 1-10, how is druid bashing and PvP, in terms of solo and group combat?

Aegoth

Morsul said:

On a scale of 1-10, how is druid bashing and PvP, in terms of solo and group combat?

Over 9000

Rom

Bashing is like a 3-4 to me, very slow with maul but pretty survivable.  
Solo pvp probably like a 7-8  at the high end but most people will reasonably find it at like a 4 if unwilling to utilize certain tactics. (Whether due to complexity, lameness, or boring.)
Group pvp is like 9-10.
I've never rated a class on a number scale..

Cynlael

Rom said:

Bashing is like a 3-4 to me, very slow with maul but pretty survivable.  
Solo pvp probably like a 7-8  at the high end but most people will reasonably find it at like a 4 if unwilling to utilize certain tactics. (Whether due to complexity, lameness, or boring.)
Group pvp is like 9-10.
I've never rated a class on a number scale..

On a scale of Dajio -> Mizik? (dajio being about a -7, Mizik being about a 300)

Driden

Matias said:

1) Someone can stop you shattering easy enough.

2) Blissful Ignorance could eat the force restore.


well no kill setup is supposed to be 100 percent.

do you think it is viable?

Aerek

Not really. You should never expect to land a Shatter on an opponent who is fighting back. If you did, Trample's balance is not short, so even if you Trample/snapped and they Restored with 3 crippled limbs, that's 9 seconds of EQ loss, but you're off balance for 3.6(?) or so just from Trample. By the time you started Execute, they'd only be off-EQ for 6.4 more seconds, and Execute is longer than that.

Kenway

Exelethril said:

Does anyone have the limb damage value of Acciacatura? Is it 60-70%?

Doesn't add any damage, just applies epseth/epteth. The damage bonus comes from vibrato/tremolo hitting an already damaged limb and from my experience it does something like 55% of the limb. I just always open with trem and start counting from there. Makes life so much easier.

Kryger

Yeah Shatter is something you do after properly hindering the person or if he isn't looking, like AFK or in Raid. Other than that, it won't land on anyone with a clue.

Qwyn

Is there a way to see your defensive stats, akin to AUDIT in Aetolia?

Antonius

@Qwyn: Not currently.

Dochitha

Kenway said:

Exelethril said:

Does anyone have the limb damage value of Acciacatura? Is it 60-70%?

Doesn't add any damage, just applies epseth/epteth. The damage bonus comes from vibrato/tremolo hitting an already damaged limb and from my experience it does something like 55% of the limb. I just always open with trem and start counting from there. Makes life so much easier.

Yeah and not costing tune/song when it breaks.