Miscellaneous Maths/Testing II

Jovolo

If you mean does the ability cost baalzadeen power/health, it doesn't

Eld

Jovolo said:

If you mean does the ability cost baalzadeen power/health, it doesn't

That is what I meant, yes. Only idea I had for why decay would seem to do more against baalzadeens than falcons (assuming it was tested on the person's own baalzadeen).

Sena

Decay and bleed are the same damage type.

Nakari

given the int bump from viridian, it might make more sense to measure it at 14 int for a good baseline. Though I'd be stuck at fifteen, myself.

Sena

Nakari said:

given the int bump from viridian, it might make more sense to measure it at 14 int for a good baseline. Though I'd be stuck at fifteen, myself.

12 is good for comparison because it entirely removes the effect of str/int so you can see the base damage, viridian giving extra int doesn't change that (although it makes it a lot harder to find someone with 12 int in viridian).

Dalran

How is magi bashing? I don't remember reading it earlier in the thread (probably just missed it though)

Sena

You can compare some bashing attacks, including staffcast, here. It's missing a lot, though.

For a shorter summary: Unartied magi has poor damage output against denizens, slow attacks with low damage. But since they use magical attacks that take eq, there are a lot of artefacts to improve offence, so a fully artied magi is pretty good.

With 19 int, L3 collar, and diadem, staffcast should have about 242 DPS. That's nothing amazing really, some classes can beat that at 12 str/int, but it's good.

Also, I realised I've never posted stormhammer details.
Stormhammer eq is 6 seconds. I don't have the damage at 12 int, but I'd estimate ~644. When you hit multiple targets, the first target takes full damage, the other two take about 5% less. So if you're hitting 3 targets, you're getting much higher DPS than staffcast (about 2.7 times as much).

Trey

I threw this together for @Kyrra (still have to do the weapons one, I know!). More than a few people have been asking me about forging lately. This doesn't have anything like statistics, it's just a rudimentary document that lists:

How many forges to get to base item

What the base stats are

How many refines it gets after it hits base

The possible amount of points that can be distributed

The highest possible value in either stat

What the item would be assuming all refines are successful and equally distributed

All of the data assumes you have a hammer. If you don't, double the number of forges and refines, but keep everything else the same. Thought people might get some use out of it.

EDIT: I have no idea what I'm doing apparently, so here's a Dropbox Link

Sena

Maybe I'm just terrible at forums, but I can't find a way to download that.

Trey

Fixed it, I think

Kyrra

@Trey, you clearly need more steel as incentive

I've always been interested in knowing what's decent and what's crap, and not many people seem keen on sharing the info so I really appreciate that. @Aelios and @Maccabeus have been nifty about answering random questions too.

Trey

Kyrra said:

@Trey, you clearly need more steel as incentive I've always been interested in knowing what's decent and what's crap, and not many people seem keen on sharing the info so I really appreciate that. @Aelios and @Maccabeus have been nifty about answering random questions too.

I WILL PAY YOU SO HARD FOR STEEL.

Vadimuses

It's a bit difficult to test the delay the server-side curing imposes, if any. Anyone have numbers? I've got a few theories as to why this is happening...

Lightning-quick, Khalaz jabs you with an ornate steel rapier.

A prickly stinging overcomes your body, fading away into numbness.

Khalaz viciously jabs an ornate steel rapier into you.

You feel a tightening sensation grow in your lungs.

(p) (x) 3199h|69%, 4410m|93%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [par bld(88) ast] {24 Mayan 651}(-452h, 9.8%) 

[Curing]: EAT BLOODROOT

You eat a bloodroot leaf.

Your muscles unlock; you are no longer paralysed. (0.314s)

(p) (x) 3199h|69%, 4410m|93%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(88) ast] {24 Mayan 651}

You have recovered equilibrium. (3.771s)

(p) (ex) 3199h|69%, 4410m|93%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(88) ast] {24 Mayan 651}

[Curing]: TOUCH TREE

You touch the tree of life tattoo.

Your bronchial tubes open up and your asthma is cured. (0.651s)

(p) (ex) 3199h|69%, 4410m|93%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(88)] {24 Mayan 651}

[Curing]: CLOT

You may eat another plant or mineral. (1.388s)

(p) (ex) 3199h|69%, 4350m|91%, 99w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(88)] {24 Mayan 651}

You fling your arms skyward and let out a glorious laugh as you are filled with a stamina that wells 

up from deep within you.

(p) (x) 4119h|89%, 4350m|91%, 99w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(88)] {24 Mayan 651}(+920h, 20.0%) 

You bleed 84 health.

(p) (x) 4035h|87%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(84)] {24 Mayan 651}(-84h, 1.8%) 

Lightning-quick, Khalaz jabs you with an ornate steel rapier.

A prickly stinging overcomes your body, fading away into numbness.

Lightning-quick, Khalaz jabs you with an ornate steel rapier.

You feel a tightening sensation grow in your lungs.

(p) (x) 3353h|72%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [par bld(84) ast] {24 Mayan 651}(-682h, 14.8%) 

[Curing]: EAT BLOODROOT

You eat a bloodroot leaf.

Your muscles unlock; you are no longer paralysed. (0.358s)

(p) (x) 3353h|72%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(84) ast] {24 Mayan 651}

You have recovered equilibrium. (2.891s)

(p) (ex) 3353h|72%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(84) ast] {24 Mayan 651}

You may eat another plant or mineral. (1.482s)

(p) (ex) 3353h|72%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(84) ast] {24 Mayan 651}

[Curing]: EAT KELP

You eat a piece of kelp.

Your bronchial tubes open up and your asthma is cured. (1.854s)

(p) (ex) 3353h|72%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(84)] {24 Mayan 651}

You fling your arms skyward and let out a glorious laugh as you are filled with a stamina that wells 

up from deep within you.

(p) (x) 4273h|92%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(84)] {24 Mayan 651}(+920h, 20.0%) 

You may eat another plant or mineral. (1.41s)

(p) (x) 4273h|92%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(84)] {24 Mayan 651}

Khalaz viciously jabs an ornate steel rapier into you.

A prickly stinging overcomes your body, fading away into numbness.

Lightning-quick, Khalaz jabs you with an ornate steel rapier.

You feel a tightening sensation grow in your lungs.

(p) (x) 3821h|83%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [par bld(84) ast] {24 Mayan 651}(-452h, 9.8%) 

[Curing]: EAT BLOODROOT

You eat a bloodroot leaf.

Your muscles unlock; you are no longer paralysed. (0.329s)

(p) (x) 3821h|83%, 4350m|91%, 100w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(84) ast] {24 Mayan 651}

[Curing]: CLOT

You bleed 105 health.

(p) (x) 3716h|80%, 4290m|90%, 99w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(105) ast] {24 Mayan 651}(-105h, 2.3%) 

[Curing]: TOUCH TREE

You touch the tree of life tattoo.

Your bronchial tubes open up and your asthma is cured. (0.977s)

(p) (x) 3716h|80%, 4290m|90%, 99w%, 100e%, ()- [bld(105)] {24 Mayan 651}

You have recovered equilibrium. (3.511s)

Sena

I haven't tried it in real conditions (actual combat, handling multiple afflictions at once), but here are the times from some simple testing (turn nightsight off and see how long it takes to be put up, then sit sit/stand and arsenic/sensory, 100 tests of each).
[spoiler]
Nightsight (average 167ms): 31, 46, 47, 47, 47, 47, 62, 62, 63, 93, 93, 94, 94, 94, 94, 109, 109, 109, 109, 110, 110, 125, 125, 125, 140, 140, 140, 140, 140, 141, 141, 141, 141, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 157, 157, 171, 171, 171, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 188, 188, 188, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 204, 204, 218, 218, 219, 219, 219, 219, 250, 266, 297, 328, 406, 422, 422, 500

Stand (average 190ms): 47, 62, 62, 63, 63, 78, 93, 110, 110, 110, 140, 141, 141, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 187, 187, 187, 187, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 204, 218, 218, 219, 219, 234, 250, 250, 250, 312, 328, 344, 407, 422, 453, 469, 547, 625

Sensory (average 181ms): 15, 46, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 62, 62, 62, 62, 63, 63, 63, 78, 78, 78, 79, 93, 93, 94, 94, 94, 109, 109, 109, 109, 109, 109, 110, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 141, 141, 141, 141, 156, 156, 156, 157, 171, 171, 171, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 203, 203, 203, 219, 219, 219, 234, 234, 235, 235, 235, 250, 250, 250, 250, 250, 265, 312, 313, 328, 344, 406, 454, 484, 484, 485, 500, 593, 906

All 3 combined (average 179ms): 15, 31, 46, 46, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, 62, 62, 62, 62, 62, 62, 62, 62, 63, 63, 63, 63, 63, 63, 78, 78, 78, 78, 79, 93, 93, 93, 93, 93, 94, 94, 94, 94, 94, 94, 94, 109, 109, 109, 109, 109, 109, 109, 109, 109, 109, 110, 110, 110, 110, 110, 110, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 125, 140, 140, 140, 140, 140, 140, 141, 141, 141, 141, 141, 141, 141, 141, 141, 141, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 156, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 157, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 171, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 172, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 187, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 188, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 203, 204, 204, 204, 218, 218, 218, 218, 219, 219, 219, 219, 219, 219, 219, 219, 219, 234, 234, 234, 235, 235, 235, 250, 250, 250, 250, 250, 250, 250, 250, 250, 265, 266, 297, 312, 312, 313, 328, 328, 328, 344, 344, 406, 406, 407, 422, 422, 422, 453, 454, 469, 484, 484, 485, 500, 500, 547, 593, 625, 906
[/spoiler]
Not sure how meaningful or useful this is.

Vadimuses

Okay, that range of numbers throws my theory out. I'd still like to know how this works, then.

Utianima

@Sena did you also check your ping multiple times to see if the same fluctuation occurs outside of curing? If not, then I assume either A) curing happens within certain random time or certain predetermined "ticks" or it could be different for different afflictions, and needs more testing with different afflictions.

Sena

My ping is consistently around 60ms. Normally it will fluctuate about 5ms either way, sometimes 10. Not enough to make a huge difference. There is the possibility of more intermittent lag spikes (on my end or the server's) though, especially on an outlier like that 906 there.

It doesn't happen on a consistent tick, my guess is that there's simply a random delay (or a non-random delay with huge fluctuations caused by other things), but I don't have enough information to be sure of anything.

Vadimuses

Still interested to know whenever the simulated ping delay is working and what is it. Seems to be instant at some times, and then with the normal ping time the other times.

Sena

I decided to make a fully artied DPS ranking to go along with my unartied DPS ranking in another thread. Before that though, I'm wondering what people think I should use as an example of top-end forged rapiers. What are the highest damage and speed people have seen? Or should I just stick with soulpiercers?

Sena

Decided to go ahead and use soulpiercers for now. This means knights aren't ranked very high, so just keep in mind that they can be a lot better with great forged rapiers.

Assumes all relevant artefacts (listed for each class, along with total cost), nimble or quick-witted, 20 pre-class-abilities strength for non-dragons (16 for satyr/troll/xoran with str spec+trait, +3 from artefacts, +1 from jera), 19 pre-class-abilities int for non-dragons (16 for grook/siren/tsol'aa with int spec+trait, +3 from artefacts). Ignores accuracy, ignores endurance/willpower usage, and ignores criticals (which only matters for alchemist, since no other class has a crit bonus). Keep in mind that these numbers are estimates which assume that every class uses the same stat formula, and there are probably a few that don't, so I wouldn't expect this to be 100% accurate.

The list is spoilered since it's longer and more detailed than the unartied list.
[spoiler]Monk: 503 in scorpion stance
Artefacts (4100 credits): L3 Gauntlets, L3 Knuckles

Shaman: ~432 with optimal swiftcursing, 245 without swiftcurse.
Artefacts (4950 credits): L3 Sash, L3 Collar, Diadem (for swiftcurse)

Dragon: 408
Artefacts (2500 credits): L3 Gauntlets
Note: I was going to include incantation, for people who already have int arties for their lesserform class, but fully artied incantation is actually still worse than unartied gut.

Blademaster: 387 in Sanya, 250 in Mir, 447 in Arash
Artefacts (4100): L3 Gauntlets, L3 Band

Jester: 372
Artefacts (3500): L3 Gauntlets, L3 Blackjack

Bard: 340
Artefacts (8200): L3 Rapier, L3 Gauntlets, L3 Sash, L3 Collar
Note: Assumes 20 str and 14 int (str-specced satyr/xoran plus jera and artefacts).

Priest: 292 (312 with inspiration)
Artefacts (4100): L3 Gauntlets, L3 Mace

Sylvan: 309
Artefacts (4950 credits): L3 Sash, L3 Collar, Diadem

Druid/Sentinel: 302 with reflexes, 226 without reflexes
Artefacts (4100 credits): L3 Gauntlets, L3 Knuckles

Runewarden: 288
Artefacts (5700): L3 Rapier (x2), L3 Gauntlets

Alchemist: 281
Artefacts (4950 credits): L3 Sash, L3 Collar, Diadem
Note: Alchemists get a crit bonus from extispicy, which gives a decent boost to their offense that isn't calculated here.

Occultist: 281 (306 if you can get a +3 int mog)
Artefacts (4950 credits): L3 Sash, L3 Collar, Diadem

Apostate: 281
Artefacts (4950 credits): L3 Sash, L3 Collar, Diadem

Paladin: 256 (273 with inspiration)
Artefacts (5700): L3 Rapier (x2), L3 Gauntlets

Infernal: 256
Artefacts (5700): L3 Rapier (x2), L3 Gauntlets

Mage: 237 with staffcast, ~641 if you're hitting 3 targets with stormhammer
Artefacts (4950 credits): L3 Sash, L3 Collar, Diadem
Note: Magi is ranked this low just because of staffcast. With stormhammer being so situational, it's difficult to rank properly, but it can be pretty awesome.

Serpent: 220
Artefacts (1400): L3 Lash

Classless: 171
Artefacts (4000): L3 Dirk, L3 Gauntlets[/spoiler]
Very different from the unartied rankings.

Sena

I forgot that shamans now have skull pendants to increase swiftcurse duration. This doesn't change shaman's relative position in the rankings, but it does change the numbers:

Shaman: ~448 with optimal swiftcursing, 245 without swiftcurse.
Artefacts (6550 credits): L3 Sash, L3 Collar, Diadem (for swiftcurse), L3 Skull Pendant

Klendathu

But how do traits and racial specs alter? An int specced grook monk is going to have quite different results to a str specced troll monk... 

Sena

Int-specced grook monk would be:

Unartied without nimble: 224
Unartied with nimble: 249
Fully artied (14 str) without nimble: 375
Fully artied with nimble: 417

Mizik

Camus?

Strength doesn't affect garrote? 

Sena

Camus is 133 DPS unartied without nimble, artied camus (just Silver Fangs) with nimble is 170 DPS.

Garrote just depends on whip stats and subterfuge, camus isn't affected by anything but Silver Fangs.

Isaiah

@Sena‌ do u have the numbers for flay speed vs whip stats and if so does it have a cap?

Sena

I'm about 95% certain that whip stats don't matter for flay. Dexterity makes a difference, but not a huge difference. I don't have any exact numbers.

Klendathu

Xoran Caster monk, base int 15. Which gives more bang, level 1 sash (increase to 16 int) or level 2 collar (+15% damage)?

Sena

If you're only looking for more damage, the collar. I don't know if you already have a level 1 collar or not, so: upgrading from a level 1 collar to level 2 gives about the same benefit as a level 1 sash, for 100 credits cheaper. If you don't have a collar at all yet, you're getting about 3 times the benefit of the sash for only 300 credits more.

On the other hand, the sash will give you more mana and willpower, which could also be important.

Klendathu

No collar yet, so looks like the level 2 collar is the way to go (I don't usually have a problem with mana / willpower). Thanks @Sena