Miscellaneous Maths/Testing II

Sena

I can't think of any situation where increasing a skill will adversely affect you at all (except that you can't be forced to use an ability you don't have).

Iocun

Well, learning more skills increases your might and that makes people not want to fight you or have cheap excuses when they lose!

Sena

Any apostates willing to use bleed on a falcon (I have a runewarden alt for that) to see the damage? Might as well check decay as well.

Arditi

How fast does scytherus cause relapses?

Antidas

@Arditi its random. You can get really lucky and have it relapse a couple times in a second, or it can screw you and not relapse for what feels like ages.

Mannimar

I think @Sena's slogan for anything math should be:

"I have an alt for that."

Sena

Mannimar said:

I think @Sena's slogan for anything math should be:

"I have an alt for that."

I don't get it.

I have an alt with a falcon for testing denizen damage, and a serpent alt (not even trans hypnosis or venoms), and that's pretty much it. Also, alts are useful for testing class abilities (and then mostly just newbie abilities, since taking the time to trans skills isn't worth it) and for having a falcon, not for math.

Mizik

Eld, you are like nerd-Jesus.

Eld

Since it seems to be everyone's favorite thing to bitch about at the moment, I started doing a bit of testing of the blunt damage icon. Testing on a human runewarden with no armour, no traits, no avoidance, bbt damage went from 2122 without the icon to 2118 with it (yes, the icon decreased the damage slightly, no I don't understand why). Adding in algiz (as a runewarden), damage went to 1909 without icon (10% reduction, as expected), and 1976 with (~6.7% reduction). This was all with the icon at 100%.

So from a first look, if the usual claim that the icon tuning just reduces the target's effective blunt damage resistance, it seems to be a 1/3 reduction at full strength, which seems consistent with a little less careful testing I'd done before. The fact that it still had an effect with no resistances seems to imply that there's likely something else going on.

Mizik

Yo back up

Cynlael

Mizik said:

Yo back up

...Aren't you a Monk? Don't you mean back DOWN? How else are you supposed to BBT.

Sena

It took me forever, but I finally got around to testing smite against denizens.

At trans spirituality with a normal mace, smite does 362 damage and takes 3s of balance.

I'm not sure exactly how artefact maces, lagua, or lower spirituality will affect that yet (aside from confirming that spirituality definitely does affect damage and speed). If any priests with an artefact mace and/or runed mace want to help test that, let me know.

Sena

Daeir said:

Do you test these things on falcons?

Yes.

Daeir said:

I've been looking at Jester bopping and found that it does 510 on a falcon at 12 strength with a 2.5s~ balance, which puts it right up there with some of the better bashing abilities.

Is that with the standard blackjack or an artefact? I agree though, bop is one of the best bashing attacks.

Kuy

I noticed you asked for apostate bleed and decay months ago. Decay is 549 damage on a Baalzadeen, 545 damage on a falcon, with a speed of ~3.8s before quick-witted. Bleed is so negligible it's not even worth mentioning. It is by far better to decay than deadeyes bleed, even with nimble.

Sena

The difference in damage between the baalzadeen and falcon is interesting. I'm not sure why they'd be different.

Edit: Does checking the baalzadeen's health cost a bit of health? Devotion and grove energy are like that, and it would explain the slightly higher damage.

Kuy

Sena said:

The difference in damage between the baalzadeen and falcon is interesting. I'm not sure why they'd be different.

Edit: Does checking the baalzadeen's health cost a bit of health? Devotion and grove energy are like that, and it would explain the slightly higher damage.

It costs only balance to check a Baalzadeen's health.

Antonius

Sena said:

The difference in damage between the baalzadeen and falcon is interesting. I'm not sure why they'd be different.

Edit: Does checking the baalzadeen's health cost a bit of health? Devotion and grove energy are like that, and it would explain the slightly higher damage.

Devotion is no longer like that following the last round of classleads, by the way.

Sena

A level 2 mace (damage stat of 173) does 395 damage, 2.4s of balance. Still not enough data points to work out an actual damage formula, a level 1/3 mace or runed mace (any level) would still help.

Sena

It looks like smite damage against denizens at trans spirituality is 145+DamageStat*1.45.

So while unartied priests are subpar (at least offensively) for bashing, the maces make a huge difference so artied priests are pretty good.

Sena

Some sleep-related testing. Summary for those who don't care about the details:
Endurance doesn't matter for metawake (nothing does, as far as I've found).
Endurance influences manually waking with the WAKE command without kola or metawake, but it's only a slight difference, not enough to really matter.
Automatic waking from being fully rested with full endurance is very random, and usually slower than manual WAKE.

And the details:
First, metawake wakes you up automatically, between 0 and 1.5 seconds after falling asleep (average is about 0.7 seconds). It doesn't happen on a consistent global tick, it seems to simply be random. I haven't found anything that influences the time (I checked level, max endurance, current endurance, survival skill, manual sleeping vs. delphinium).

Waking up automatically without metawake (You open your eyes and stretch languidly, feeling deliciously well-rested) is very random. It could be anywhere from 0 to 70+ seconds. You only wake up automatically this way if you're at full endurance. When you are at full endurance, you have a chance of waking up on every dream tick (seems to be a global tick that fires every 3.25-ish seconds, but it's hard to be sure because dreams and waking are so random). The average time to wake up is about 14 seconds, but there's such a huge variation that the average doesn't mean much. Out of 135 samples, the fastest was 1.656s and the slowest was 72.625 seconds.

Waking up manually with the WAKE command, without kola, is also pretty random. It happens on a global tick that fires about every second. Current endurance does seem to influence the chance of waking up on each tick, but it's not a huge difference. With full (20k) endurance, the average was about 3 ticks (3-4 seconds), and with 0 endurance (0 when I start sleeping, obviously it's restored a bit by sleeping) the average was about 3.75 ticks (about 25% longer). If anyone is curious, here's a chart of how many ticks it took, with 200 samples of each.

Eld

So probably just a fixed chance to wake up on a given tick, with the probability ranging from around 1/3 at full endurance to around 1/4 at 0.

Edit: Where by "fixed" I mean "determined solely by your endurance at the time of the tick, with no dependence on the success of past ticks".

Sena

I tested metawake's timing a bit more, since the sample size was pretty small before. With 341 samples, the fastest was 0.062 seconds and the slowest was 1.969 seconds (this is enough of an outlier that it was probably caused by latency), with an average of 0.862s. Most of the results (~83%) were between 0.7s and 1s, with the rest being pretty evenly distributed on either side.

Cathy

This thread.

Sena

Since bashing stats come up a lot, I think I should try to get data on all the bashing attacks I'm missing information on. This will require help from a lot of different people, though.

So if anyone from the following classes is willing to help, send me a message.
Apostate (bleed and decay)
Bard (jab+accentato)
Infernal (decay)
Jester (bop)
Magi (staffcast, stormhammer)
Monk (dragon combo, scorpion combo)
Occultist (warp)
Shaman (bleed)
Sylvan (thornrend)

You'll mostly just need to hit a falcon a few times, and tell me how much mana/end/will the attack took. You should also be trans in the relevant skill. In all cases, 12 str/int (whichever is used by the attack) would be best, and is the highest priority, but higher stats are still useful.

Hasar

I have 13 int and can help @Sena‌.

Riley

12 str and 14 int for Bard I can get your my numbers for jab/accentato if you want

Penwize

AND MY AXE!

Sena

When I made that post I was forgetting that I was about to go on vacation for a couple weeks. So I won't really be able to do any testing for a while.

Riley

hmm curiousity, does anything affect Shaman bleed damage versus denizens?

Eld

Riley said:

hmm curiousity, does anything affect Shaman bleed damage versus denizens?

Intelligence and lessons in curses. That's all I know of off hand.