Miscellaneous Maths/Testing II

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  • Hunting with doublestab is optimal, denizens don't even run SVO.
  • They are suppose to use rapier speed, so it's not a bug. They use to have a 10% speed bonus due to their songblessingness, but that went bye bye a ways back. Sena posted the announce post number on the last page.

                   Party right, party hard,

                                            Sing and dance, perfect bard.

                                                                     Prefarar loop, accentato whore,

                                                                                             Buy a new rapier, get nerfed some more.

  • edited December 2012
    Sena said:
    Then it takes 200 speed to match it without nimble, 190-ish (185 might be enough) with nimble. Assuming trans swashbuckling.
    That's 200 speed without nimble, I have 215 speed WITH nimble and I am only a shade under 3 seconds.
  • Zeon said:
    They are suppose to use rapier speed, so it's not a bug. They use to have a 10% speed bonus due to their songblessingness, but that went bye bye a ways back. Sena posted the announce post number on the last page.
    Weapon balance depends on the speed stat as well as weaponry skill (normally). I thought that a songblessed rapier used swashbuckling instead of weaponry, but it apparently doesn't, which is where the potential bug is (if it is meant to be swashbuckling).
    Kafziel said:
    That's 200 speed without nimble, I have 215 speed WITH nimble and I am only a shade under 3 seconds.
    If it does use weaponry and not swashbuckling, then that's about as expected for gifted. Trans should make it nearly half a second faster.
  • IMO it'd be stupid if it wasn't a bug.
  • NimNim
    edited December 2012
    @Eld: Given the speeds you gave, it's hard to say for certain (though it seems to work a little better for the numbers you gave, but since there were less banded tests, it's hard to say for sure), but an alternative formula for Drawslash recovery might be 2.5*n*(20-x-b)/20, where n is 0.9 if you have nimble and 1 if not, b is the level of your band, and x is based on stance (1 for arash, 2 for thyr, and -4 for mir/doya). The best way I can think of to tell if it's additive like that, or multiplicative like you suggested, is to test Mir or Doya a few thousand times with a 3rd level band.
  • GAH all this makes me really want to work on a monk limbcounter.
    image
  • Nim said:
    @Eld: Given the speeds you gave, it's hard to say for certain (though it seems to work a little better for the numbers you gave, but since there were less banded tests, it's hard to say for sure), but an alternative formula for Drawslash recovery might be 2.5*n*(20-x-b)/20, where n is 0.9 if you have nimble and 1 if not, b is the level of your band, and x is based on stance (1 for arash, 2 for thyr, and -4 for mir/doya). The best way I can think of to tell if it's additive like that, or multiplicative like you suggested, is to test Mir or Doya a few thousand times with a 3rd level band.
    Well, my band got fixed, so I'll probably be doing some tests with the level 3 soon, but probably after the end of the event, since there's some indication that it might be screwing with balance times. I hadn't considered the possibility of additive percentages, but I suspect the difference will be small enough that I won't really be able to distinguish between the possibilities anyway.
  • Oh, magical @Sena please run some numbers on these things...

    With 7859 health, backstab with a dagger of reincarnation, forged dagger, and lv1 artefact dirk did the same damage and had the same stun duration. 3245 with 12 strength, 3805 with 15 strength. I couldn't make my test subject check balance times on each weapon, though, nor stab somebody with different health. He got bored.
  • I'm not sure what numbers I should run. I already gave the backstab formula earlier in the thread (300+MaxHealth*40%, reduced by cutting resistance but not armour, unaffected by weapon damage). I could try to figure out the cutting resistance of the target, but I'd need more information. All I can really get from that is 15 strength increases the damage by a bit over 17%.
  • Thought this had been posted elsewhere, but couldn't find it. Mana cost for clotting under impaleslash seems to be 60+maxmana/30. I only checked two data points (my health in lesser and dragon) but it works for those.
  • edited January 2013
    Tecton said:
    Sena said:
    Yeah, I just looked at points earned compared to actual experience earned, it's definitely not 1:1.

    For quests, it looks like points are about 20% of actual experience (assuming it's that simple and the ratio is constant). So 1 million quest points would be about 5 million experience, or 14.3% at level 80. Still not unreasonable, but that makes it even worse than just 1 million experience.
    Not even close!
    This and now the increased points made me want to test it further.

    There were too many assumptions in my post to know exactly which part was wrong. It could be that the amount of experience per level was changed (for example, something like all experience values being divided by 100 to avoid overflow when the level cap was removed, so going from 80 to 81 is 350,000 instead of 35,000,000). If that's the case, I have no way of finding the actual points:experience ratio, but as long as the relative experience for each level is the same, I can still find points:levels (and "14.3% at level 80" would still have been correct before the modifier was increased).

    If that wasn't the problem, it could be that something other than the amount of experience is considered. For example, the modifier could depend on the level, so 1000 points at level 80 might take more experience than 1000 points at level 10. If this is the case, the difference doesn't seem huge, but even with innersight you don't get much precision at high levels, so it wouldn't have to be a tiny difference to be invisible with my limited testing. It could also be that different quests give different amounts of points, separately from the amount of experience they give. This would be pretty hard to test, given the huge number of quests, but it doesn't seem likely.

    Or the relation might not be linear, but it does seem to be so far. Again though, 0.1% at level 80 is 35,000 experience (assuming experience numbers are the same), so there's enough room for error that it's hard to tell without a lot more questing.

    Now, for the actual numbers from my testing so far.

    Looking at the point rewards from individual quests, you gain 2.5 times as many points now that Tecton increased the modifier.

    First, on a low level character (7-8). Assuming the old experience numbers (24,466 exp from level 7 to 8, and 26,957 from 8 to 9), 8,700 points required ~17,223 experience (+/- about 300, since I don't have a newbie with innersight), using quests that generally give 100-300 points each and one that gave 6,000. From that, I'd guess 1 point per 2 experience. That is 2.5 times my previous guess before the changes of 1 point per 5 experience.

    Then on Sena (level 80). It's much less precise at such a high level, but 40,500 quest points brought me from 53.1% to 53.4%, with quests that give 3,500, 6,500, and 6,000 points each. Assuming the old experience numbers (35,000,000 experience from 80 to 81), 81,000 experience (40,500*2) would be about 0.23% at level 80, which fits. This isn't enough to confirm 1 point:2 exp, but it is close enough to suggest a linear relation and that level doesn't matter (or at least close to linear, and doesn't matter much).

    If experience has been changed but relative amounts per level are the same, then instead of comparing points to experience, I can compare points to levels. 1 million quest points should be about 5.7% of the way from 80 to 81, or 0.6% of the way from 99 to 100, or about enough to go from level 0 to level 35.
  • Sena sena sena!

    Make a sentinel and find out what firstaid really does for me? :)
    image
  • KelloniusKellonius Cape Girardeau, Missouri
    Sena, if you have some spare time later I would like to test out a few Priest abilities. Unless of course you already have the data on those.
    image
  • Senasensena can I get your autograph?
  • You really need to look into the knight limb damage formula....

    Pwetty please? You can borrow Arador for as much testing as you want.

  • edited January 2013
    Rangor said:
    Make a sentinel and find out what firstaid really does for me? :)
    Just made a sentinel alt. Can firstaid be reached with newbie lessons? Edit: Looks like it's past skilled, so it will have to wait a day or two to get journeyman.
    Kellonius said:
    Sena, if you have some spare time later I would like to test out a few Priest abilities. Unless of course you already have the data on those.
    Let me know when you want to test stuff.
    Arador said:
    You really need to look into the knight limb damage formula.... Pwetty please? You can borrow Arador for as much testing as you want.
    I plan on doing it eventually. It will take a lot of time and dozens (at least) of people to test on though.
    Tvistor said:
    Senasensena can I get your autograph?
    My handwriting is terrible.
  • If you do decide to do any limb damage testing, feel free to hit me up for Two Arts numbers, or as a testing dummy.
  • edited January 2013
    The endurance cost for throwing a weapon is DamageStat/3. I tested this because I was curious about whether there was anything that made bashing with maul better than bashing with a good axe for a sentinel.
    Edit: Attacking normally instead of throwing is DamageStat/5, which is better, but still much higher than maul, and you don't get the additional speed bonus from knife thrower.

    Also, I have firstaid now. Anybody with a good bleeding attack want to help me test it?
  • Forgot I could just slit my wrists for bleeding.

    First, an explanation of how bleeding works. The bleeding tick (when you see "You bleed x health.") is every 5.5 seconds. On this tick, after you take damage, your bleeding is reduced naturally, by 8-14 points.

    With firstaid active, that natural clotting is increased, so instead of 8-14, it's 15-28. This means it basically clots an extra ~10-11 bleeding every 5.5 seconds, on average. For comparison, moss tattoo clots 50 bleeding every 5 seconds.

    So, firstaid is a tiny bonus. On the other hand, it costs nothing to keep up (just 200 mana and 30 willpower to activate it), so it's better than nothing.
  • Interesting that it's so small given that it used to be a mana drain. I wonder if the magnitude of the effect was reduced when the mana upkeep was eliminated.
  • I am sure it was much better. I used to use it on my sentinel alt while bashing buckawns and forgot what are in trees of black forest. without first aid it was near impossible, with it quite allright.
  • It's also possible that its effectiveness varies. For example, it might be better with more woodlore, or a higher level or more health.
  • Each time an alchemist raises fluids, it adds 70 seconds of fluid time. Eating ginger decreases the total time by 5%. Fluids raise to different levels on diagnose at various seconds. Critical is the highest and is reached at 180 seconds. The second lowest is 160?, third is 120 approximately. (I haven't had many chances to test this). There appear to be 5 different levels.

    Does anyone know how these values affect bleeding?
  • edited January 2013
    Amranu said:
    Does anyone know how these values affect bleeding?
    They don't. Tempered sanguine affects bleeding.

    Also, the amount of fluids gained by tempering depends on the number of humours tempered.
  • Why is this thread not titled "Ask Sena"? You are amazing Sena. *~* <3 *~* 

    I have something weird that I will PM you, in case it helps with anything testy-like.

     i'm a rebel

  • Tesha said:
    Why is this thread not titled "Ask Sena"? You are amazing Sena. *~* <3 *~* 

    I have something weird that I will PM you, in case it helps with anything testy-like.
    Because the original thread was more "Sena tells you without you having to ask."
  • edited February 2013

    Arador said:
    You really need to look into the knight limb damage formula.... Pwetty please? You can borrow Arador for as much testing as you want.
    The person from whom I received this formula from is no longer playing, so I don't believe they'll mind if I share. I used this as a Knight, and it was very reliable.

    function limb_counter(enemy_max_health)

    enemy_limb_health_multiply = 250 + enemy_max_health

    enemy_limb_health = enemy_limb_health_multiply * .24

    weapon_base_damage_multiply = 10 + enemy_max_health

    weapon_base_damage = weapon_base_damage_multiply * .005

    weapon_damage_divide = weapondamageone + weapondamagetwo

    weapon_damage = weapon_damage_divide / 2

    weapon_damage_total = weapon_base_damage + weapon_damage

    hits_to_break = enemy_limb_health / weapon_damage_total

    hits_to_break = roundUp(hits_to_break, 0)

    left_hand_damage = weapondamageone / weapon_damage

    right_hand_damage = weapondamagetwo / weapon_damage

    cecho("Enemy's limbs will break in "..hits_to_break.." hits!")

    end

    I had it triggered on assess, and when I checked weaponlist it would gather the weapon damages of the two weapons I used on a trigger.

  • Thanks, will try it out.

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