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Miscellaneous Maths/Testing II

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  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Those Priest stats... Damn.

    RomErnam
  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

    Am I still banned?

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Ernam said:
    Am I still banned?
    Yes.
    ShirszaeJhui
  • JhuiJhui Member Posts: 1,958 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Daeir said:

    104/150/180, 108/170/176

    Those are absolutely terrible longswords.  Hope you didn't pay for those.

    image
    Shirszae[Deleted User]Wessux
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Daeir said:
    Smite has a pretty enormous end drain though. I think that's why their net DPS is so high, because you will need to restore endurance somehow after 1-2 hours worth of bashing. You can work around it, but the balancing factor is there. Doesn't mean a whole lot if you bash in small bursts!
    I doubt that, because just the average that most of the classes are balanced around requires reflexes for druid/sentinel (which is very draining), Arash for blademasters (not very practical because you take a lot more damage in Arash), and swiftcurse for shamans (high willpower drain, and also requires some actual planning and timing, rather than just attacking repeatedly).

    If those classes don't get any extra damage to compensate for their drains/difficulties, it seems unlikely that a high endurance drain would be a reason to have 50% higher damage.
    Daeir said:
    Did you manage to gleam a formula for weaponry based damage on denizens at all?
    Not yet, I still need a lot more data.
    Nim
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Daeir said:

    Are rapiers still the optimal weapon for dps on denizens? I've been bashing with longswords as a Paladin for a bit, namely with these: 104/150/180, 108/170/176 and have found that with 15 str and nimble, I hit a falcon for 653 at 2.8s~ for 233 dps. I doubt there's a different formula/scaling per weapon, but it's certainly something to wonder.

    Just looking at the stats, I can say that decent rapiers (that you could probably find for under 5k, definitely under 10k) would easily be better than those. I don't know that rapiers are still the best overall though, since I don't know exactly how the damage works now.

  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014

    Yeah - I'm pretty sure, looking at the numbers, that whoever did it just tried to even out the final DPS and got some stuff off regarding weapon stats. It's kind of boring in a way, even if it's better than class X being objectively better than class Y at bashing.

    @Sena: Should totally make a wiki page with stuff like the formula and "typical" DPS values for each class. It'd be super cool. If you want to info dump me, I could do the actual wikistuff at some point (not sure all the formulas have been posted, unless I've just missed them).

  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Daeir said:
    Cynlael said:

    Those Priest stats... Damn.

    Smite has a pretty enormous end drain though. I think that's why their net DPS is so high, because you will need to restore endurance somehow after 1-2 hours worth of bashing. You can work around it, but the balancing factor is there. Doesn't mean a whole lot if you bash in small bursts!

    My. Fucking. Ass. Priest friend in Shield has ~45 lessons in fitness, and bashed for ~3-4 hours straight. Still above 50% endurance, using only the blessings from healing. Priest easily one of the lowest endurance-using classes in Achaea.

    Ernam
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Nim said:

    @Sena: Should totally make a wiki page with stuff like the formula and "typical" DPS values for each class. It'd be super cool. If you want to info dump me, I could do the actual wikistuff at some point (not sure all the formulas have been posted, unless I've just missed them).

    I wouldn't want to put the information anywhere semi-official like that without a lot more accuracy. Like I said, most of the numbers I gave involve some assumptions, extrapolations, and estimations.

  • JovoloJovolo EnglandMember Posts: 3,270 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014

    I had a pair of 140/150/180 from Roroan on some alt, should still have them. What would the DPS on those be?

  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 5,004 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    @Jovolo: Rough estimates based on my level two broadswords (they're dropping 11 points of damage in exchange for 13 points of speed - the longswords probably come out a little bit ahead), somewhere around 250-255 DPS at 15 strength.

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014

    A flail with 125 damage and 178 speed did 604 damage, about 176 DPS. You should have a bit higher damage (assuming the formula only depends on stats and not weapon type) and about the same speed. That's the best I can do without an actual formula for weapon damage against denizens.

    Edit: That's for a single slash. DSL with those flail stats would be about 213 DPS. All of these numbers are for 12 str without nimble.

  • TraelorTraelor Columbia, SCMember Posts: 70 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    I see no problems with current Priest bashing.

    Traelor - Saving the day since 594

    Borran
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    After seeing some more numbers, it seems like the speed stat actually doesn't matter at all, and it's weapon type instead. So all rapiers have the same damage formula, scaling linearly with the damage stat, while broadswords have a different formula, and presumably longswords also have their own formula.

    So, I should be able to predict the DPS of a rapier with arbitrary stats, but I have no idea about any other weapons.

  • ValusValus TexasMember Posts: 55 ✭✭ - Stalwart

    I wonder how can you find a good whip like those specs, my whip doesn't do a lot of justice.

    I have Cerebral Palsy, so it'll take me a bit to learn things so please try to be patient with me.

  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,562 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    If you're referring to the most recent whip posted (level 3 artefact) you can find one by buying a level 3 artefact whip. The first one she posted with 'average' stats can be found in any shop for like 500 gold.


  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014

    The stats I used for the "offensive spec" was the level 3 artefact whip, but you can find similar stats in shops occasionally. Whips aren't forged nearly as much as popular weapons like rapiers and handaxes though, which can make good stats hard to find sometimes. You might have better luck ordering from a forger directly (but that could be expensive), or convincing a shopkeeper to stock more whips. Serpent houses should probably have a stock of good whips too. The level 3 lash is going to be very difficult to match with a forged whip.

  • KafzielKafziel Member Posts: 658 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited July 2014
    Seems like the tankiest classes have the best bashing dps now. If there was previously a small chance of me bashing on my sentinel alt it's now 100% gone
    Mizik
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sena said:
    Nim said:

    @Sena: Should totally make a wiki page with stuff like the formula and "typical" DPS values for each class. It'd be super cool. If you want to info dump me, I could do the actual wikistuff at some point (not sure all the formulas have been posted, unless I've just missed them).

    I wouldn't want to put the information anywhere semi-official like that without a lot more accuracy. Like I said, most of the numbers I gave involve some assumptions, extrapolations, and estimations.

    It's a wiki - it's meant to be in a continuous state of incompletion. Presenting the data and assumptions you've used to get to those conclusions is probably the most ideal way of dealing with potential inaccuracy, but even just saying it might be wrong is probably fine.

    ShirszaeValgon
  • TreyTrey Member Posts: 4,830 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sena said:

    The stats I used for the "offensive spec" was the level 3 artefact whip, but you can find similar stats in shops occasionally. Whips aren't forged nearly as much as popular weapons like rapiers and handaxes though, which can make good stats hard to find sometimes. You might have better luck ordering from a forger directly (but that could be expensive), or convincing a shopkeeper to stock more whips. Serpent houses should probably have a stock of good whips too. The level 3 lash is going to be very difficult next to impossible to match with a forged whip.

    Fixed that for you. The highest I've ever forged is a 208 speed whip. 

  • IsaiahIsaiah GeorgiaMember Posts: 150 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

     Having issues with removing quote boxes for mobile... @Sena‌ is the DPs you calculated for serpent fully specced and Arte whip (446) take into account the fact that serpent can bite Camus when a denizen shields?

    Eat like a caveman, train like a beast. Champions are not born, they are made. 

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    No, that's too situational to include in any DPS comparisons. It depends on the health of the denizen you're fighting, when/if it shields, your crit rate, etc.
    RomCaladbolg[Deleted User]
  • BorranBorran Member Posts: 845 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I'm surprised we haven't seen more druids and sentinels complaining about their dps. I mean,  pve is life for Druids. 


  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Does killing mounts in the arena count for stat stats? If so, that would let you find the level of an uncollared mount without losing it.
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited August 2014
    Tecton said:
    Sena said:

    Bard damage is either bugged, or random. Sometimes it's 144+3.2*DamageStat for jab and JabDamage/4 for accentato (roughly 180+4*DamageStat total), sometimes it's exactly half of that. Those numbers are with 227-235 speed rapiers, in case speed matters for the damage formula. Jab (and thus accentato since it scales with jab damage) is increased by strength, int doesn't increase the damage at all.

    Was a bug with some weaponry attacks, yeah. Fixed now!

    This seems to be happening again (or maybe still), with shortsword slashes and DSLs at least. Although now it's slightly less than half damage (or slightly more than double damage, not sure which is intended).
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Eld said:
    Eld said:
    Well, with some initial testing, it looks like Aim to Kill increases critical hit damage by something between 4.5% and 6.7%. I should be able to narrow that down further a bit later.
    With a little more testing, looks like somewhere between 4.51% and 4.74%. The scripts I've got tracking the appropriate numbers and updating that range will keep going, but I'm going to figure .1% precision is good enough for government work and not actively work on tightening it up.
    This was over a year ago, but would you happen to still have the data for this? I was just thinking about it, and realised it could be a flat amount of damage added before the critical multiplier, which would mean the percentage would vary depending on the damage of the attack.
  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sena said:
    Eld said:
    Eld said:
    Well, with some initial testing, it looks like Aim to Kill increases critical hit damage by something between 4.5% and 6.7%. I should be able to narrow that down further a bit later.
    With a little more testing, looks like somewhere between 4.51% and 4.74%. The scripts I've got tracking the appropriate numbers and updating that range will keep going, but I'm going to figure .1% precision is good enough for government work and not actively work on tightening it up.
    This was over a year ago, but would you happen to still have the data for this? I was just thinking about it, and realised it could be a flat amount of damage added before the critical multiplier, which would mean the percentage would vary depending on the damage of the attack.
    Looking back at the script I was using, I wasn't saving data on the level of how many of each type of crit I got on each mob. Basically, for each kill, I just tracked how much damage I had done in non-crits and how much I would have done in crits without aim-to-kill, and calculated upper and lower limits on a single number to multiply the crit damage by to be consistent with that set of hits killing the denizen; rather than saving the details of each kill, I just kept track of the most stringent limits I had come up with so far.

    The attacks I was using covered a pretty wide range of damage, from 427 in Thyr with 12 str to 636 in Arash with 14, so if it were a flat amount of damage I might expect to have seen more inconsistent limits (say, an upper limit on the multiplier that was lower than the highest previous lower limit), which I did have a warning for. Hard to say, though, given the uncertainties on the denizens' max health and the fact that I was doing things like switching stance and/or strength midfight to try to get as much variety as possible.

    I think I still have the trait, so it shouldn't be too hard to update the numbers for drawslash damage and find limits for each stance, but I'm probably not likely to be doing that much bashing in the near future. If you want, I can clean up and package the script at some point and pass it along.
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited September 2014
    The script would probably be useful, though from that it sounds like a flat amount of damage is unlikely.

    The reason I was wondering about it is that Tecton said it "adds a small bonus to the damage before it is multiplied by the critical modifier, so it gets better the higher your critical strength." If it was a multiplicative bonus, it wouldn't matter (aside from slight differences due to rounding) whether it was applied before or after the critical modifier.
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