Class Tweaking

Arador

So if I break a serpent's leg with Delphinium, and it fires on the one, it will strip insomnia, let him put it back on and then strip it again?

Sorry, but no thanks.

Iocun

Still wouldn't be worse than current shrugging in the same situation, and there are situations where the delay would actually harm the serpent. If you're trying to prioritize affliction A over B, and shrugging makes A set in with a delay, you'll cure B instead and have no herb balance to cure the really important one.

It's an interesting idea, but I still think it's a bit too complicated and would require too much thought and experimentation to really make it balanced.

If no other solution can be agreed on, just give serpents fitness instead. Would be a quite powerful addition, yet be stoppable and non-random. I just don't like it overly much for the simple fact that there are so many fitness classes already and that it's nice to have different classes that have different prerequisites to locking/killing them. One possibility would be some sort of "anti-loki" venom, which cures any random loki aff when you're being hit with it. A serpent could bite someone else with it, but also (like with any other venom) bite himself.

What I don't perfectly like about that though is that any kind of such active cure that uses balance may be used for the overly defensive yet offensively harmless type of combat style that's already much too prevalent in Achaea, as it would lead to many serpents giving up their offence just to keep themselves on the safe side. That's why I'd rather have something slightly less powerful, but non balance consuming, so it can really work well as a momentum preserver.

Or just remove it completely without replacement and make dstab no longer so easy to hinder!

Seftin

What about having whilst shrugging is activated you cant trans secrete venoms? Just an idea

Tesha

Mizik had the best idea of just deleting shrugging, in my opinion.

Darklyre

Replace shrugging with shedding - works like fitness, only for slickness and not asthma.

Iocun

Tesha said:

Mizik had the best idea of just deleting shrugging, in my opinion.

Wouldn't mind it, if there weren't those ridiculously fast knights (and Thoth's sentinels) running around. I don't think shrugging is a necessity for serpents defensively, but it can be offensively. Not having fitness (or any other hindering or curing ability) means that you just can't always afford prioritizing paralysis, which means that any fast afflicter can hinder a serpent enormously.

Actually, it can be a bit of a necessity defensively as well, considering damage knights...

Mizik

If it's that vital, can make it an activate ability. 2 second eq, the next 10 sec shrugging on with same proc as current. Cannot be activated prone.

Iocun

That only means that you can continue to shrug as much as currently if you play the turtle game, but that someone who wants to be able to keep up momentum at all times (to go for a lock at some opportune moment), won't be able to make much use of it.

And no, it's probably not absolutely "vital". Personally, I think I could still survive most knights and eventually get a lock without it - but not every serpent is as artied as I am and can rely on tankiness to protect from certain crazy damage or on sheer dstab speed to be able to get through small windows of opportunity. I have often voluntarily dropped shrugging against knights (and almost always against serpents) in spars, but I couldn't have afforded to do so when I was still less artied (admittedly - mostly only against opponents that were quite artied).

Mizik

Dudes who play other classes must blow your mind.

 

We poor souls.

St. Patties day hit me pretty hard. Miz need brain. For smart-making.

Mishgul

You are grammar bad senselessly

Mizik

Ha! 4 minutes on the edit button.

Mishgul

Dude, i have had the itch for years. YEARS. F your freedom mizik. 

Arador

Saying that Bad Idea #7 is still better than current Shrugging, does not make it a good idea. It may be less stupid but it is still stupid. Plus if has taken this long to fix shrugging, how long before the fix get fixed?

If life without shrugging is so horrible, how do serpents currently fight Apostates?

I am all for an active healing ability like fitness or alleviate, but please can we stop adding randomness into the situation and keep in mind the goal here. Serpents are virtually immune against venom using classes, especially with finishers.

Either give all these classes a way to strip it for 10 to 30 seconds, or delete it and give them an acrive skill which does not make them immune again.

Maybe give serpent the ability to bite with one of the venom afflictions they have every 10 seconds. Like bedevil light. Stopped by what stops bite like paralysis and prone.

Mishgul

serpents don't beat apostates.

Dodder

If shrugging is so important a part for a serpents offense, and you need a fix. How about having shrugging not work for 10-15 seconds after a serpent activates a hypnosis sequence?

Anyways tons of ideas in here!

Caladbolg

Xith said:

Can't make it passive because I don't think afflictions are stored by the means with which they were given, and I don't see why venoms should shrug cursed paralysis/anorexia/etc.

Just add an endurance drain similar to acrobatics. Unless weaving also takes endurance, in which case make it a little less. Or not, I mean just limiting its use so that it eventually runs out in a serpent v serpent fight would be lovely.

Wait, no! I've got it. While shrugging is on, every venom shrugged costs the person 100-200 endurance on the proc.

Satyr Serpent with trans fitness = Same thing that we have now.. High endurance costs are negateable.

That's not including Ox tattoo and Endurance ring as well. Which if endurance was ever a problem people would be sure to grab.

Iocun

Arador said:

Saying that Bad Idea #7 is still better than current Shrugging, does not make it a good idea. It may be less stupid but it is still stupid. Plus if has taken this long to fix shrugging, how long before the fix get fixed?

I never said I was in favour of the idea.

If life without shrugging is so horrible, how do serpents currently fight Apostates?

Nor did I say life without shrugging was "horrible". Apostates certainly are tough opponents, since they can hinder a serpent a lot while having passive curing themselves, but the fact that they don't break limbs while they're afflicting means that curing paralysis generally still guarantees the ability to evade out. But yes: fighting an apostate certainly is often a fight for momentum.

I am all for an active healing ability like fitness or alleviate, but please can we stop adding randomness into the situation and keep in mind the goal here. Serpents are virtually immune against venom using classes, especially with finishers.

Never disputed any of that. Curiously enough though, I'm pretty much the only one who keeps suggesting shrugging nerfs in every single classlead round. Something like alleviate wouldn't quite meet its purpose, though. Fitness definitely would, as it allows you to prioritize differently, but fitness is boring.

The "bedevil light" thing sounds intriguing. Might be slightly too powerful though, since it would allow you to cure an affliction of your choice every ten seconds, making it distinctively stronger than a tree tattoo. Unless you meant that it would convey any random of your current afflictions - but you were so staunchly against anything with the word "random" in it.

Iocun

Also:

Mizik said:

Dudes who play other classes must blow your mind.

What?

Iocun

I still think something like a second tree tattoo, at its own balance (but slower than tree) would be best. Easy to use, not hindering your own offence, stoppable, and not excessively powerful as long as its internal balance is reasonably long. To me, that seems like the most straight-forward and uncomplicated solution.

Mishgul

Yeah without shrugging serpents woul need something like evade or tumble or restore to survive. Or all three in one. Revumble.

Iocun

Mishgul said:

Yeah without shrugging serpents woul need something like evade or tumble or restore to survive. Or all three in one. Revumble.

An ability that gets you out of the room past any room-based hindering, affliction-based hindering, gives no message, bypasses all room entry effects in the room you get to, and heals all crippled limbs? Sure, sounds good!

Mizik

I'd still take shrugging over that.

Sohl

Combine it with heartstop and we're on to something.

Xith

K end of shrugging discussion. Moar tweaks.

Sidonia

Bard tweaks:

Piety and banishment harmonics. Cleansing also for neutral astralform removal.

Dartega

Is there a reason why things like hocus and creator shouldn't be able to be targeted at someone? 

If not, tweak that. 

Seftin

Stay away from hocus. Its lovely

Dartega

Well obviously keep everything about hocus the same, I just don't see why everyone watching my fight needs to see what illusions I'm using

Sohl

Being able to target with the staff would be really nice as well.

Mishgul

I code my anti illusion based on what ayoxele does standing next to me