Class Tweaking

Caladbolg

Jarrel said:

@Caladbolg: So you're suggesting that if you get 'god mode' (ie, the defs you mentioned in and out of your class, which aren't particularly hard to obtain) you shouldn't die to %age based kill set up damage attacks at all?

What im saying is mir stance shin heal let's me live through everyone else. Runes,Earth Blessings, Shin heal, Vitiate, Mir stance doesn't let me even last five seconds against you.     and I've already suggested Mir stance gets nerfed for the damage reduction is a bit much.

Garao

I think it's just that Horkval + Algiz and whatever else he had taking 75% on a mild internal is quite high. 

Blademaster offence is more broken though.

Jarrel

He didn't have Algiz or Horkval for that fight. He's theorizing. He was a human with 0 armour (Sanya), no damage mitigation, minimal health regen/gain arties, if at all.

Caladbolg posting this log and attempting to prove how little damage mitigation classes have against BBT is like losing your ring the dark corner of the room and then searching in the other corner because there's more light there.

Caladbolg

Jarrel said:

He didn't have Algiz or Horkval for that fight. He's theorizing. He was a human with 0 armour (Sanya), no damage mitigation, minimal health regen/gain arties, if at all.

Caladbolg posting this log and attempting to prove how little damage mitigation classes have against BBT is like losing your ring the dark corner of the room and then searching in the other corner because there's more light there.

I race changed to human and stacked strength after our fights. btw.

And I don't think im attempting to prove how little damage mitigation classes have against bbt. Because again I keep saying I've tanked 2 level 1 torsos from alot of people, 5 dragon bites, three non torso bbt's level 1 torso disembowels. I've made people literally. Say F it give up and go back to city because I tanked all the damage.. What im saying is if -I- can't tank it then wtf is this.

Kenway

@Jarrel I was in Skype call with Salad when this fight was going down, I had just runed him and he had yet to change to human.

I dunno enough about this stuff to say who's right or wrong here but I'm of the belief that  everyone should be on the same page and have the correct information the rest of us go and get the torches and pitchforks.

#waitingexpectantlytoshoutmonsteranddriveoutofvillage

Jarrel

Frankly, I consider it pretty lame to have TFs (sometimes inevitable), runes, blessings etc for 1v1 that you obtain outside of your own class. It might be because I have enough artefacts to safely tank most opponents but it's a sentiment I've always stood by, purely for the fact that each class should be able to operate competently on its own vs most classes without 'interference' in order to have a 'true' match of skill vs skill, again this can be argued against with curing is done by systems, so on and so forth, some classes are inherently weaker to others etc. but at the end of the day I think your true 'skill' per se is how you organize, direct and execute your offense in an efficacious manner.

Edit: To reply, I'm flattered that you felt you had to stack defenses vs me but imagine you won, you tanked 3 level 1 torso damage BBTs. Would I not be here instead of you ranting about how retarded Mir/ES/Runes/Horkval stacking is? Would that be fairer? Why is it that you feel you should have been able to tank it? You're not especially artied, you're not realistically of a class in the top end of the spectrum that can mitigate damage/heal up extremely well. Surely you should if anything, feel it was fair that you died to my damage in a well set up execution?

Garao

I don't think they get those things to help their offence, but to survive your artefacted one.

Caladbolg

Jarrel said:

Frankly, I consider it pretty lame to have TFs (sometimes inevitable), runes, blessings etc for 1v1 that you obtain outside of your own class. It might be because I have enough artefacts to safely tank most opponents but it's a sentiment I've always stood by, purely for the fact that each class should be able to operate competently on its own vs most classes without 'interference' in order to have a 'true' match of skill vs skill, again this can be argued against with curing is done by systems, so on and so forth, some classes are inherently weaker to others etc. but at the end of the day I think your true 'skill' per se is how you organize, direct and execute your offense in an efficacious manner.

You didn't run from impaleslash with my mighty 12 strength 17 con horkval spec I kill with brokenstar and brokenstar alone. So your tanking arties has absolutely no effect on brokenstar unless your counting wings.

Mizik

Recommend lv 3 defensive artefacts vs lv 3 offensive artefacts.

Jarrel

Caladbolg said:

Jarrel said:

Frankly, I consider it pretty lame to have TFs (sometimes inevitable), runes, blessings etc for 1v1 that you obtain outside of your own class. It might be because I have enough artefacts to safely tank most opponents but it's a sentiment I've always stood by, purely for the fact that each class should be able to operate competently on its own vs most classes without 'interference' in order to have a 'true' match of skill vs skill, again this can be argued against with curing is done by systems, so on and so forth, some classes are inherently weaker to others etc. but at the end of the day I think your true 'skill' per se is how you organize, direct and execute your offense in an efficacious manner.

You didn't run from impaleslash with my mighty 12 strength 17 con horkval spec I kill with brokenstar and brokenstar alone. So your tanking arties has absolutely no effect on brokenstar unless your counting wings.

Are you implying Robes of Magi, +3 Intel, +2 Bracelet have absolutely no effect vs brokenstar? This is news to me, I think I've been ripped off

Jarrel

Garao said:

I don't think they get those things to help their offence, but to survive your artefacted one.

I'm open to fighting people without my artefacts on most occasions. I however retract that offer from the table once I feel I have been wronged by that person for whatever reason, teaming, poor sportsmanship etc.

Garao

Just duel him no offensive arties or something, as long as he doesn't go and get algiz etc. (suggestion, not demand)

Tesha

Jarrel was willing to fight without his artifacts when I asked him. I would prefer getting blessings instead of asking him to not to use things he spent thousands of dollars on, personally.

Caladbolg

Jarrel said:

Caladbolg said:

Jarrel said:

Frankly, I consider it pretty lame to have TFs (sometimes inevitable), runes, blessings etc for 1v1 that you obtain outside of your own class. It might be because I have enough artefacts to safely tank most opponents but it's a sentiment I've always stood by, purely for the fact that each class should be able to operate competently on its own vs most classes without 'interference' in order to have a 'true' match of skill vs skill, again this can be argued against with curing is done by systems, so on and so forth, some classes are inherently weaker to others etc. but at the end of the day I think your true 'skill' per se is how you organize, direct and execute your offense in an efficacious manner.

You didn't run from impaleslash with my mighty 12 strength 17 con horkval spec I kill with brokenstar and brokenstar alone. So your tanking arties has absolutely no effect on brokenstar unless your counting wings.

Are you implying Robes of Magi, +3 Intel, +2 Bracelet have absolutely no effect vs brokenstar? This is news to me, I think I've been ripped off

Robes of magi doesn't effect clot. Impaleslash causes 100 bleeding and makes impaleslash do 60+1/30th of your max mana. So a little but when I stack 1000 bleeding your not clotting it.

Triak

Caladbolg said:

Jarrel said:

Caladbolg said:

Jarrel said:

Frankly, I consider it pretty lame to have TFs (sometimes inevitable), runes, blessings etc for 1v1 that you obtain outside of your own class. It might be because I have enough artefacts to safely tank most opponents but it's a sentiment I've always stood by, purely for the fact that each class should be able to operate competently on its own vs most classes without 'interference' in order to have a 'true' match of skill vs skill, again this can be argued against with curing is done by systems, so on and so forth, some classes are inherently weaker to others etc. but at the end of the day I think your true 'skill' per se is how you organize, direct and execute your offense in an efficacious manner.

You didn't run from impaleslash with my mighty 12 strength 17 con horkval spec I kill with brokenstar and brokenstar alone. So your tanking arties has absolutely no effect on brokenstar unless your counting wings.

Are you implying Robes of Magi, +3 Intel, +2 Bracelet have absolutely no effect vs brokenstar? This is news to me, I think I've been ripped off

Robes of magi doesn't effect clot. Impaleslash causes 100 bleeding and makes impaleslash do 60+1/30th of your max mana. So a little but when I stack 1000 bleeding your not clotting it.

#-o

Jarrel

So now, just to be clear, are you retracting your previous statement of 'So your tanking arties has absolutely no effect on brokenstar unless your counting wings.'? and replacing it with 'A little'?

@Garao: No offense but, why would I want to fight a guy without my offensive artefacts who claims he can tank (quote) " 2 level 1 torsos from alot of people, 5 dragon bites, three non torso bbt's level 1 torso disembowels" no problem? Would there be a realistic chance of winning? Would anyone want to take part in a fight where they have no chance of winning? I don't know about the rest of you but I'm sorry to say I'm here to win, not walk in the sunshine of forums approbation.

Caladbolg

Jarrel said:

So now, just to be clear, are you retracting your previous statement of 'So your tanking arties has absolutely no effect on brokenstar unless your counting wings.'? and replacing it with 'A little'?

@Garao: Why would I want to fight a guy without my offensive artefacts who claims he can tank (quote) " 2 level 1 torsos from alot of people, 5 dragon bites, three non torso bbt's level 1 torso disembowels" no problem? Would there be a realistic chance of winning? Would anyone want to take part in a fight where they have no chance of winning? I don't know about the rest of you but I'm sorry to say I'm here to win, not walk in the sunshine of forums approbation.

I ment a little on the int part, as in.. if you have 3000 mana impaleslash will be 160 mana per clot and if you have 6000 mana Impaleslash will be 260 mana per clot.. With 3000 mana you can clot 18.75 times we'll round it to 19 for 380 total bleed. and with 6000 mana you can clot 23 times for 460 bleed total, Assuming your at max mana.

Rajan

Why would I even play this game then? I might as well /wrists and sit in the bathtub.

You would kill yourself over a text game?

Garao

Coz it's fun and that test of "Skill" like you were saying earlier. Though being able to survive "2 level 1 torsos from alot of people" isn't exactly a testament to a huge op defence. Didn't he mention that he had those "god mode" defs for that which he wouldn't if you dueled unartied anyway

Sabiru

Just going to throw it out there, though it's probably already been said.

In no particular order: Caladbolg, Garao and possibly Xith have made the combat section of these forums almost unreadable.

Kaie

Dude, actually I have a legitimate tweak that I don't think anyone would protest for my class and Occultists. Which is Wheel tarot. This thing is pretty useless for the most part unless you're playing a game where some unfortunate or lucky person wants you to do it. It currently just randomly removes or adds exp (permanent) or decreases/increases 1 stat (temp). It's totally unusuable in combat since it's against rules to use on unwilling people and can result in shrubbing.

Also you can't use it on yourself. Would be nice if it had a better use.

Kaie

about jarrel... I don't mess with him. His axk nearly destroys me. I tried this several times. Jarrel > your health.

Achilles

Kaie said:

Dude, actually I have a legitimate tweak that I don't think anyone would protest for my class and Occultists. Which is Wheel tarot. This thing is pretty useless for the most part unless you're playing a game where some unfortunate or lucky person wants you to do it. It currently just randomly removes or adds exp (permanent) or decreases/increases 1 stat (temp). It's totally unusuable in combat since it's against rules to use on unwilling people and can result in shrubbing.

Also you can't use it on yourself. Would be nice if it had a better use.

There are a lot of abilities that don't have any real use even before factoring in curing systems.

Also regarding wheel

You casually flip the Wheel of Fortune tarot to the ground and a large wheel with various brightly-
coloured sections and a pointer appears. It begins to spin quickly round and round.
(p) 4952h, 3980m, 22915e, 18303w ecdbk 63- 21:29:07.141 |-
You have recovered balance on all limbs.
(p) 4952h, 3980m, 22925e, 18309w excdbk 63- 21:29:09.637 |-
The wheel slows down and stops with the pointer on 'Experience Gain.' A pleased look flashes across
Achilles's face.
You gasp with the realisation that Achilles has reached the level of Greater Dragon.

Jarrel

Garao said:

Coz it's fun and that test of "Skill" like you were saying earlier. Though being able to survive "2 level 1 torsos from alot of people" isn't exactly a testament to a huge op defence. Didn't he mention that he had those "god mode" defs for that which he wouldn't if you dueled unartied anyway

Not really, there's skill and then there's chance where you cross your fingers and hope something goes wrong for someone to die in a way which would otherwise be close to impossible and difficult to replicate providing they're not totally stupid, Idiocy is when you mistake the two. 

Kaie

Achilles said:

Kaie said:

Dude, actually I have a legitimate tweak that I don't think anyone would protest for my class and Occultists. Which is Wheel tarot. This thing is pretty useless for the most part unless you're playing a game where some unfortunate or lucky person wants you to do it. It currently just randomly removes or adds exp (permanent) or decreases/increases 1 stat (temp). It's totally unusuable in combat since it's against rules to use on unwilling people and can result in shrubbing.

Also you can't use it on yourself. Would be nice if it had a better use.

There are a lot of abilities that don't have any real use even before factoring in curing systems.

Also regarding wheel

You casually flip the Wheel of Fortune tarot to the ground and a large wheel with various brightly-
coloured sections and a pointer appears. It begins to spin quickly round and round.
(p) 4952h, 3980m, 22915e, 18303w ecdbk 63- 21:29:07.141 |-
You have recovered balance on all limbs.
(p) 4952h, 3980m, 22925e, 18309w excdbk 63- 21:29:09.637 |-
The wheel slows down and stops with the pointer on 'Experience Gain.' A pleased look flashes across
Achilles's face.
You gasp with the realisation that Achilles has reached the level of Greater Dragon.

....... LIES!
The wheel hesitates and then comes to a stop with no discernable effect.

Arador

Actual suggestion: Let delphinium, epteth and epseth bypass Shrugging. Apart from that, leave as is.

Would write out an explination, but I am on my phone. Sure the smart guys here can figure out the reasoning.

Thoughts?

Jhui

that's really just an upgrade for knight vs shrugging

I'm not saying it's bad, but bards, sentinels, other serps, etc, need to be included when thinking about a shrugging fix

Mizik

Why would we even keep shrugging?

Seriously, any venom v serpent = why bother

Sena

Change shrugging to have a chance of curing a random venom affliction when you're hit with a venom instead of having a chance to ignore that venom. This seems like a perfectly balanced suggestion.

Sohl

Delete lifevision, turn shrugging into an active ability akin to monk immunity.