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Class Tweaking

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  • IocunIocun Member Posts: 3,691 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2013
    Considering how long it takes to, say, diag without physiology, 3 seconds on such an ability doesn't seem excessive at all to me. If it was 0.5 seconds, plenty of people would be using it every few combos, or even every single combo, which shouldn't be the point of it. It should be a way to "calibrate" your counting at, not a means of making counting entirely unnecessary. I could live with 2 seconds too, but something in the 0.5-1 second range is just way too short to really be an incentive not to overuse it.

    Agreed that just head damage isn't particularly useful to monks, at the moment. That is mostly an issue of head damage of any level in general being underpowered in today's combat environment. A concussion once used to be one of the most feared afflictions, but today most people just shrug it off and cure it without blinking. Even slowlocks don't really mean much anymore. Something to make head damage more threatening would definitely be welcome, be it along the line of instakills like damnation or the idea you mentioned, be it by having head damage have an effect on other abilities (like torso damage has on bbt damage etc.), or be it by simply adding more dangerous/hindering afflictions as sideeffects of level 1 and 2 head damage.

    In any case, I'd enjoy if axe kicks weren't just "yet another prone damage ability", but added something different to a monk's arsenal. Monks are a bit too linear for my taste, at the moment.
    JhuiDarklyre
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Does that daegger puncture thing go through shields or just rebounding? Cause I think the reason daegger vs shield is an issue is that they have to stick slickness. But things like daemonite or worms can help keep people from shielding while they're not paralysed. So it's probably not enough of an issue, since deadeyes plus daegger can get pretty out of hand anyway.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    @Dorn

    Ment for the mir stance to be nerfed but not nerfed to complete uselessness. The fact I can tank 2 level torso broken bbt's is a bit retarded. As far as retalationstrike goes. I don't really even see a reason to put it up in the first place and monks hardly ever pinchblock to begin with. but seemingly a passive triggering a stun seems more like a bug than acctual mechanics.

    Multislash The first one was the return of old multislash, since races are no longer weak to elements it won't be doing 3-4k damage in one hit like it could before against raja/troll.

    As for transmute im not sure on the exact numbers that should go through but a static number basically means lower hp harder for finishers to kill.

  • PaynePayne Member Posts: 32 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    leave occultist alone!!!
    CaladbolgJosoulAveri
  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Druid:
    • Let Hydra summon an icestorm that acts similar to a dragon's breathstorm. Does no damage and simply hits like an ice attack (strip/shiver/freeze) 3-4 times before dissipating.
    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
  • SidoniaSidonia Member Posts: 408 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Aepas said:
    Druid/Sentinel:
    • Let Icewyrm summon an icestorm that acts similar to a dragon's breathstorm. Does no damage and simply hits like an ice attack (strip/shiver/freeze) 3-4 times before dissipating.

  • EldEld Member Posts: 3,946 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aepas said:
    Druid:
    • Let Hydra summon an icestorm that acts similar to a dragon's breathstorm. Does no damage and simply hits like an ice attack (strip/shiver/freeze) 3-4 times before dissipating.
    So give it blue dragon breathstorm?
  • CahinCahin Member Posts: 1,213 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Iocun said:
    Oh, and here was me thinking the daegger hunt not stopped by shield idea was just a joke...


    I DONT KNOW HOW TO GET OUT OF THIS QUOTE BOX
    Cahin: It was a joke. Pretty sure it would make an already powerful class the most powerful class hands down (if it isn't already).  The sleep sleep stuff on hunt isn't even a reason why it would be overpowered.  Jester can already do that more efficiently with zero prep and without even entering the room.  Serpent can also do it if no rebounding.

    Sidonia
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited February 2013
    Cahin said:
    Iocun said:
    Oh, and here was me thinking the daegger hunt not stopped by shield idea was just a joke...


    I DONT KNOW HOW TO GET OUT OF THIS QUOTE BOX
    Cahin: It was a joke. Pretty sure it would make an already powerful class the most powerful class hands down (if it isn't already).  The sleep sleep stuff on hunt isn't even a reason why it would be overpowered.  Jester can already do that more efficiently with zero prep and without even entering the room.  Serpent can also do it if no rebounding.
    Allow Good Apostates! Do it! do it! do it!

    In all seriousness though I forgot to add that unpreped impales don't seem to be that big of a deal to me on certain classes, I've not fought them all lately as bladey but you don't need to unprep impale to sure kill someone if you break the torso.

    And considering most run on impaleslash.. but then again maybe that's just my thinking

    Acctually after rethinking it knights are kind of hard to unprep impaleslash because of the speed of rapiers.

    And one last note. It's not axk that's the problem really it's the two punches that come afterwards. But I agree with Iocuns assessment that it's not needed to do massive ammounts of damage. Although a head break unless going for concussion seems almost worthless.. at least to me

  • MishgulMishgul Trondheim, NorwayMember Posts: 5,378 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Blademaster is ridic. All i have to is exist and bam no more willpower

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    IphisAveri
  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,325 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Axekick is nice because you get big amounts of damage while forcing your opponent to choose between legs and head. Its certainly not OP at my STR level (13) but obviously 95% damage at higher STR levels is rediculous.  Just let the damage scale exactly like BBT + 10%, same balance, guaranteed lvl1 head. 

    I really like the functionality of axekick as it exists: Strong finisher when you think health is low and they're about to stand. Misjudge and you'll likely miss the kill. Intelligent combatants can use it in the middle of killing setups, where you have to pile on the damage, but use the head damage to facilitate the kill in some way. At lower STR levels, there has been some really smart strategies utilizing axekick, and I'd like that functionality to be preserved.
    image
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited February 2013
    Jacen said:
    Axekick is nice because you get big amounts of damage while forcing your opponent to choose between legs and head. Its certainly not OP at my STR level (13) but obviously 95% damage at higher STR levels is rediculous.  Just let the damage scale exactly like BBT + 10%, same balance, guaranteed lvl1 head. 

    I really like the functionality of axekick as it exists: Strong finisher when you think health is low and they're about to stand. Misjudge and you'll likely miss the kill. Intelligent combatants can use it in the middle of killing setups, where you have to pile on the damage, but use the head damage to facilitate the kill in some way. At lower STR levels, there has been some really smart strategies utilizing axekick, and I'd like that functionality to be preserved.
    It's not axk's damage that's the problem though it's the 600+ punches afterwards.


    Mishgul said:
    Blademaster is ridic. All i have to is exist and bam no more willpower

    Also agreed we should throw Vaehl in a fire

  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sidonia said:
    Aepas said:
    Druid/Sentinel:
    • Let Icewyrm summon an icestorm that acts similar to a dragon's breathstorm. Does no damage and simply hits like an ice attack (strip/shiver/freeze) 3-4 times before dissipating.

    No, Sentinel has plenty of other stuff. Also an ability such as this should not be coupled with something like reflexes and ents, also wait a minute. Do sents even GO for freezepound? I hardly see it every being worth anything without hydra.
    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
  • TvistorTvistor Member Posts: 2,900 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2013
    Xith said:
    ...can help keep people from shielding while they're not paralysed...
    You can shield while paralyzed.
  • SidoniaSidonia Member Posts: 408 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Aepas said:
    Sidonia said:
    Aepas said:
    Druid/Sentinel:
    • Let Icewyrm summon an icestorm that acts similar to a dragon's breathstorm. Does no damage and simply hits like an ice attack (strip/shiver/freeze) 3-4 times before dissipating.

    No, Sentinel has plenty of other stuff. Also an ability such as this should not be coupled with something like reflexes and ents, also wait a minute. Do sents even GO for freezepound? I hardly see it every being worth anything without hydra.
    It's still semi-viable if people don't redef caloric over limb breaks.
  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sidonia said:
    Aepas said:
    Sidonia said:
    Aepas said:
    Druid/Sentinel:
    • Let Icewyrm summon an icestorm that acts similar to a dragon's breathstorm. Does no damage and simply hits like an ice attack (strip/shiver/freeze) 3-4 times before dissipating.

    No, Sentinel has plenty of other stuff. Also an ability such as this should not be coupled with something like reflexes and ents, also wait a minute. Do sents even GO for freezepound? I hardly see it every being worth anything without hydra.
    It's still semi-viable if people don't redef caloric over limb breaks.
    and if they never shield or tumble
    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
  • GaraoGarao Member Posts: 460 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Tumble is a godsend for a sentinel

  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    New Idea for voidfist.

    Make voidfist stop the targets ability to focus for 15 seconds.

    I'm honestly not sure how good of an idea this is in terms of balance but currently voidfist is a 15-20 second anorexia that has a chance to work. If Voidfist stoped people from focusing it would give blademasters impatience for 15 seconds which is something we are currently missing. and open affliction combat up for blademaster since really we can't stick anything with out Impatience to begin with.

    In other thoughts change voidfist and give us an impatience strike. allowing us to lock but with out the opness of voidfist to go along with it (Pommel at .9 second balance should be good enough to lock in theory)

    Dorn
  • AepasAepas Member Posts: 1,619 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Druid/Sent Metamorphosis

    Hyena: Increase accuracy of claw

    Gorilla: slightly increase damage of pound. (Current unprep pound is very sad and hardly worth using)
              : Make freezepound an instant kill.

    Bear: Increase bleed damage of shred. (Sometimes I want to cause mana damage. Pretty much every other class bleed skill is better than shred. Shred is laughable.)

    Eagle: Increase swoop speed/damage. (Meh, Swoop is decent damage, not useful in any situation. Maybe in raids where the opponent is dumb. If you want to give us the most vulnerable attack in the world, make it worth while.)

    Icewyrm: Very slightly increase freeze speed. (.1-.2 seconds)

    Icewyrm/Jaguar/Wyvern: Increase accuracy for maul and change scaling for target max health. (Too much damage to lowbies, too little damage to highbies.)

    Hydra:
    Lower balance on hydra bind.
    Lower balance on hydra sting.

    Let "Hydra Bite" attack limbs at limb damage, rather than the flat "clamp" damage the free head has. Makes Hydra limb prepping act more like A) blademaster or B) Like you have throwing axes without relying on the skill weaponry.
    • Would also allow for a dual break with venoms not available to envenom weapons like throwing axes with. I.e. Nechamandra

    Let "Hydra freeze" do damage along with it's freezing property.

    • Hydra setup to the actual "freezepound" status does very little damage. (Freeze/clamp/shatter do minimal damage to target, letting them heal up while you are prepping.) Makes it easier for freezepound to go through (In it's current incarnation of being a damage kill)

    Let Hydra summon an icestorm that acts like a blue dragon's breathstorm. Let is show when caloric is stripped or cold is afflicted.

    Remove (RIDING: TRAMPLE) from available things to do after a hydra bind. 

    Have "Hydra roar" do more mana damage based on INT.

    Have "Hydra flame" do more damage based on INT. (Currently seems to have no modifier, very different than most classes in game.)

    (Currently, Tumble is more effective against hydra than most classes, especially with recent tumble changes to knight imaple. Hydra takes longer than all other classes to get a proper freezepound, and anyone can tumble from the room.) let GROVES have a way of hindering tumble for a few extra seconds. (2 seconds max?)

    Replies the scorpion: "It's my nature..."
  • GaraoGarao Member Posts: 460 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Blademasters can already drain mana like a biatch with bleeding and damage with forcing focus. I'd be more inclined to give Blademaster's an evaluate/contemplate-esque ability in place of voidfist. 

    <250 mana = impatience. Can also infuse lightning and Anorexia off salve balance to achieve a similar (but not a lock) effect. Blademaster with impatience would be overpowered :/

    And for Druid, what do people think about pound's damage scaling with levels of freeze? For example, deffed caloric = base damage (just like, 20%?), then stripped caloric = 35/40%, shivering = 65/70%, frozen stiff = instant kill. Something like that. 

    I do think icestorm would be overpowered. Allowing generally unstoppable kills as long as they use it in tandem with limb breaks. Freeze doing a small amount of damage (5%) could be interesting.

  • VaehlVaehl Member Posts: 963 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2013

    Xith said:
    Does that daegger puncture thing go through shields or just rebounding? Cause I think the reason daegger vs shield is an issue is that they have to stick slickness. But things like daemonite or worms can help keep people from shielding while they're not paralysed. So it's probably not enough of an issue, since deadeyes plus daegger can get pretty out of hand anyway.
    Puncture does not go through shield. Is useless like 90% of the time.
  • MishgulMishgul Trondheim, NorwayMember Posts: 5,378 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    90% of the time, it is useless every time.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    VaehlHuyenFriztic
  • VaehlVaehl Member Posts: 963 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Not if non-para priority which can take it to like 50% chance of working. Assuming 10% of people may non-paralysis prioritize which is likely too large of an assumption. But yeah a smart person with non para priority can still render puncture useless but I'm not gonna say how (pretty obvious really).
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Just going to float this idea here. It's most appropriate for classleads so I don't want to put it in the Dais.

    The idea is STAKE TOTEM, for Runelorists. It would only be useable in a room with no implanted or propped totems, and would throw the totem to stake it into the ground temporarily, falling over after about 10-15 seconds. So it would be propped outside the inventory for the moment, and then hit the ground, potentially allowing anyone to grab it. That's one drawback. I also thought a will or endurance deduction might help balance it to prevent raid groups from repeatedly staking totems.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
    Alcinae
  • KyrraKyrra AustraliaMember Posts: 4,941 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited March 2013
    Is this because it's too much effort to have an alias that switches between wielding a totem to prop and weapons? Genuinely curious. Currently, unless you're interrupted, a totem can be propped until you're overcome with boredom but it's at the cost of being able to do anything else in the meantime. I don't know about others, but most runelorists are reluctant already to play a support role in a raid group with propping totems because they would rather be on the offensive and potentionally getting kills. Staking totems seems like something else to keep track of, and with losing totems all over the place, that can be super costly on comms to stock up on, unless you want to spend the time uprooting them from somewhere else. I mostly just want to know what's wrong with propping and why staking would be better. :) Why my phone eat line breaks?
    (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

  • SidoniaSidonia Member Posts: 408 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Staking would mean that even if you kill/hinder the propper, it'd stay visible for enemies to hit, which is actually the reason I am opposed to it.
  • MizikMizik Member Posts: 2,270 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The reason it won't happen is because totems are already a prohibitively powerful passive defense. 

    You'd have to limit it to STAKE TOTEM FOR TARGET to make it reasonable and not just another reason to not engage an opposing force.
    image
    Kyrra
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Except that it's timed, and if it burns 3-5% of max endurance each time that makes it unviable for repeated raid use.

    @Kyrra I'm not a (experienced) runist, so this is a concept I thought would be neat. No particular reason, but after propping balance, you'd have the ability to engage whoever comes in and hits it. Which is only different in that while your totem is "staked" you don't need to worry about them sniping you into putting it down.

    Totems can be underused in high-tier 1v1 because of that, so I thought it might introduce some more runelore relevance, especially for the staple of the skillset.
    You could even plant it in your present room, still being able to cure (unlike prop) then on bal leave, they chase you, then run back in and they'll get themselves caught on it. No worrying about prop, then hit, then balance, then counterattack.

    I can see potential problems with a poorly timed runewarden combo. Thurisaz + stake sowulu totem + thurisaz + runeblades-ouchie. Or thz+thz+stake+engage. Then they flee into the staked room. But it's like a briefly freestanding implant for those purposes. Adds the dimension. Probably accompany with a runie nerf or something but it could be cool.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited March 2013
    Xith said:
    Except that it's timed, and if it burns 3-5% of max endurance each time that makes it unviable for repeated raid use.

    @Kyrra I'm not a (experienced) runist, so this is a concept I thought would be neat. No particular reason, but after propping balance, you'd have the ability to engage whoever comes in and hits it. Which is only different in that while your totem is "staked" you don't need to worry about them sniping you into putting it down.

    Totems can be underused in high-tier 1v1 because of that, so I thought it might introduce some more runelore relevance, especially for the staple of the skillset.
    You could even plant it in your present room, still being able to cure (unlike prop) then on bal leave, they chase you, then run back in and they'll get themselves caught on it. No worrying about prop, then hit, then balance, then counterattack.

    I can see potential problems with a poorly timed runewarden combo. Thurisaz + stake sowulu totem + thurisaz + runeblades-ouchie. Or thz+thz+stake+engage. Then they flee into the staked room. But it's like a briefly freestanding implant for those purposes. Adds the dimension. Probably accompany with a runie nerf or something but it could be cool.
    barge Caladbolg west, Envenom left with delphinium envenom right with Delphinium dsl till they die

    At least that's what I got out of it.

    Tvistor
  • XithXith Member Posts: 2,602 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Yeah mainly sucks for Runies. Then again..... hold the phone.

    Runies have runeblades. Maybe gives STAKE to only Shamans? Get their own unique rune skill.
    I like my steak like I like my Magic cards: mythic rare.
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