Class Tweaking

Mishgul

everytime someone hits you with a venom you use the shrug emote.

Arador

I would go with making shrug act like alleviate and changing lifevision/clarity to not see illusions but keep them seeing hidden people.

That would help with all classes.

Aktillum

Give Jesters shrugging instead.

Xith

Sohl said:

Delete lifevision, turn shrugging into an active ability akin to monk immunity.

Could reduce lifevision's effectiveness.

Shrugging should be active but stoppable by paralysis... only question is whether cursed anorexia should be shruggable just cause it can be given by slike.

On the other hand, I'd just like to see a drain associated with it. Endurance or will, so that they have to choose when to keep it up and when to drop it.

Arditi

Shrugging only works while a Serpent has venom prepared. The shorter the backfire time, the greater chance of shrugging.

Nemutaur

Arditi said:

Shrugging only works while a Serpent has venom prepared. The shorter the backfire time, the greater chance of shrugging.

That would actually be an amazing mechanic. They'd be able to predict what venom is coming next and secrete that to block.

Caladbolg

Daeir said:

That actually sounds pretty awesome. Nerf the passive component to shrugging and make it so that holding a venom dramatically increases shrugging chance to that venom (like almost makes you immune to it), but if you hold onto it for too long, you get hit with it like normal. I've thought of abusing the colocasia relapse for quick deaf/blindness when running into totems before, but haven't been able to pull it off successfully.

Oh man, that means you could do all sorts of cool stuff like provide freezing resistance to someone holding onto nechamandra. That'd add a whole new layer to playing with venoms.

Problem with this idea.. Oh god im fighting a knight as a serpent.. better secrete Curare.. Oh god im fighting a serpent better secrete.. Curare.. >_>

Garao

As interesting as the idea is, it doesn't really solve any of the issues surrounding shrugging in the first place.

Aepas

would give too much control aginst knights. prepped, use delph. infernal, now use epteth... etc etc.

Sena

Daeir said:

Nerf the passive component to shrugging and make it so that holding a venom dramatically increases shrugging chance to that venom (like almost makes you immune to it), but if you hold onto it for too long, you get hit with it like normal.

You can just purge;secrete periodically though, and hold a venom indefinitely with no chance of relapse. Essentially, you can always be nearly immune to any one venom you choose with no risk or cost, even while biting. Except in aeon or lag.

Iocun

An immunity type defence is a bad idea, no matter how cool the mechanic may seem. As is any kind of defence that relies on random chances. Shrugging needs to be deleted and replaced with an active cure (similar to a second tree tattoo), that can be stopped with some affliction. That would bring serpents more or less in line with most classes. Said ability needs to be close to free though, in order to fulfill its function as something to keep up a serpent's momentum.

Jacen

Like Sohl said, turn it into monk's immunity. It'll be difficult to pause for it while you're being dsl'd, and you run the risk of a serpent's hypnosis procing while you're paused. Are there any other classes that shrugging effects as bad as those four?

Iocun

I didn't think that suggestion was serious. How would immunity be of any significant help?

Shrugging is ridiculously strong and needs to go, but that's no reason to make a momentum class the most vulnerable of all classes to afflictions.

Mizik

In that case, Purity/Syphon, 10 seconds, 50% change, venoms only (still have evade)?

Arador

Please, no more Syphon-like abilities. Makes tracking afflictions even harder and screws up break combos. Rather make it an active ability like Alleviate or Educe Salt. If it is like syphon, make it stop when prone.

Mizik

No, you're drunk. I'd take that over current shrugging all day.

Arditi

Just add it to Purge. If you don't have the venom, you can't purge it. If it's something like delphinium, you can't purge it because you're asleep. If it's vardrax, you get to issue them for griefing.

Kaie

Delete venoms entirely and give everyone an ability in survival to strangle another to death. First person to manage strangling the other wins. Maybe it's a 3 second kill that can be writhed from and you'll have to couple it with web to make it work. So, who ever webs first is the winner!

Garao

Mizik said:

No, you're drunk. I'd take that over current shrugging all day.

Yeah but he didn't say in comparison to what shrugging is now, just that he doesn't want anymore passive healing abilities. May as well just make it an active one. Say no to passive healing

Arador

Yeah anything is better than current shrugging, but if we are going to fix it, why not fix it properly? The last thing we need is more passive abilities and RNG funtions.

Nothing more stupid than doing exactly the same steps and having a RNG decide the outcome.

Tesha

That is how I damnation though.

Mizik

Wow that's a really good idea. Why didn't anyone else mention it 9 posts ago.

You penis.

Darklyre

What about having a kind of antivenom ability, where a serpent can secrete a venom and ingest/bite/whatever it to cure that same affliction? Give it a separate cooldown as to not interfere with regular bites. It'd be a bit like tree tattoo, only you can't use it while holding another venom.

Velyse

How about something that functions like focus, uses focus balance, is stopped by impatience (and/or maybe weariness?), reports the venom cured to the room, but works for venoms? That seems a little strong on its own (a second herb balance, effectively), so maybe make it have double balance or a very high mana cost. That would put it at 5s balance, I think? Or alternatively it could purge a very narrow group of venoms.

"Your mastery of Venoms is so great that you may even eliminate toxins from your bloodstream by force of will."

Nim

How about something that makes serpents even more about ridiculous timing.

The ability to become immune to all venoms for a small window of time (1s at the most), on its own balance separate from all others (maybe a 4s or 5s delay between uses). Something that, if improperly used, could grant no defense at all, but if properly used, would nullify unaware attackers' ability to properly afflict the serpent, while creating a difficult guessing game between two competent combatants. (Or, more likely, a difficult guessing game for their scripts, but you know!)

I don't actually think this is a good idea, but I think it fits pretty well with how serpents work now. (Or, I guess, how I assume they work)

Iocun

Nim said:

Or, more likely, a difficult guessing game for their scripts, but you know!

I think that's the issue with something like this. Serpent combat already requires you to constantly be aware and consider so many things (what illusions work against them and which not, which herbs they prioritize over which, whether their rebounding is up, whether their sileris is up, what makes them touch tree, what makes them focus, what makes them shield/hinder, how they react to being snapped, whether they use alchemical cures or forestal ones, etc.) that it's already close to impossible to do that all at full speed in a fight without the help of scripts. And that's only the offensive side of it. I, for one, simply wouldn't have the amount of mental capacity left to make a further complex defensive decision like that every few seconds, so I would definitely automate it. But everyone pretty much being forced to automate it only adds a further layer of inaccessibility to serpent combat.

That's actually the single good thing about current shrugging: it's an entirely passive set-and-forget thing that doesn't require any deep thinking on the serpent's part. As much as I hate shrugging for its unpredictability and its sheer power against some classes, the fact that it provides an offensively challenging class with a defence that doesn't require either concentrating on it or scripting for it is a good thing.

Whatever is to become of shrugging should be relatively easy to use, just without its current unpredictability and unstoppability.

Xith

Can't make it passive because I don't think afflictions are stored by the means with which they were given, and I don't see why venoms should shrug cursed paralysis/anorexia/etc.

Just add an endurance drain similar to acrobatics. Unless weaving also takes endurance, in which case make it a little less. Or not, I mean just limiting its use so that it eventually runs out in a serpent v serpent fight would be lovely.

Wait, no! I've got it. While shrugging is on, every venom shrugged costs the person 100-200 endurance on the proc.

Sena

Shrugging being changed to add a delay before a venom affliction takes effect would be interesting (I don't know if it would also be a good idea).

So you're hit with curare, and shrugging activates (still a random chance). Instead of ignoring the affliction entirely, there's a half-second delay before you're actually paralysed by the curare (and you can still cure the affliction before the paralysis takes effect? Not sure on that).

Xith

Like Apathy but for afflictions? Sounds painful.

Iocun

Xith said:

Can't make it passive because I don't think afflictions are stored by the means with which they were given, and I don't see why venoms should shrug cursed paralysis/anorexia/etc.

Because it doesn't make sense for a venoms skill, or because it would be bad if serpents could get out of non-venom affs better?

The first is true, but whatever is to replace shrugging needs not be similar to shrugging at all or even be in the venom skill. A serpent ability to help against non-venom affs wouldn't be OP in any way, considering that every single class has one or several things in that respect.