Third Black Wave: Electric Boogaloo

Jinos

For once I have some cheese popcorn at the ready. 

Minifie

That feeling when the Proficy comes true...

Deziny

Minifie said:

That feeling when the Proficy comes true...

The feeling when so many people who have never in their lives thought it was possible all said, "Holy shit, I agree with Proficy."

Israyhl

I really enjoy the flavor that has been put into each of the Tsol'teth. I can say I have not really been trying to talk to denizens, but I have almost always gotten a response out of the Tsol'teth if they are around that has me slowly (but surely) puzzling out reasons behind 'why' they are doing what they are doing. 

I honestly think, in that regard, a different tact can be used for this event. This is the first time (that I know of, I have only recently come back) that instead of a bunch of denizens either already settled in lore or tailor-made for an event, there are ACTUAL player shells being used for these characters representing this threat. What does that mean? THERE ARE PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE. This has been HUGE to me and I have been enjoying slowly finding out more and more in how the Meld thinks and works to try to find a way to do more than bash Tide or unwind. 

Keep up the amazing work and use more player shells for more events!!

Davok

I'm personally a little tired of this ridiculous, meme-worthy OH LOOK AT THE TSOL'TETH THEY ARE MY DISFUNCTIONAL WAIFU garbage. They are cold alien invaders who deserve no remorse because they're not gonna give anyone theirs, and certainly they do not deserve this rampant admiration some people seem to have for them.

I am giving people the benefit of the doubt when I hear about it taking place IC and hoping it is motivated by real, legitimate RP reasons and not just a chance to be buddy-buddy with the admin for a couple of lols. I applauded Hashan for their bold decision to side with 'the enemy' and their in game philosophy seems suited to have done so.

Targossas seems a -whole lot less- appropriate, very sudden, and very out of character. They can do what they want though, and I won't judge them for it, but it really seems like a lot of people in general are absolutely slavering at the chance to talk to these aggressive conquerors like they're just one of your own citizens, all for some amusing banter about a shop, or a pet, or something else. It was fine when it was happening infrequently to lighten the otherwise serious mood, but it really seems like it's 24/7 now.

But maybe I am just a Mhaldorian square who doesn't like fun.

Adrik

I for one, am having fun interacting with them and interacting with them.

The fact that they are so alien and lack understanding of something fairly mundane to normal people is part of the fun.

Ygia

Davok said:

I'm personally a little tired of this ridiculous, meme-worthy OH LOOK AT THE TSOL'TETH THEY ARE MY DISFUNCTIONAL WAIFU garbage. They are cold alien invaders who deserve no remorse because they're not gonna give anyone theirs, and certainly they do not deserve this rampant admiration some people seem to have for them.

I am giving people the benefit of the doubt when I hear about it taking place IC and hoping it is motivated by real, legitimate RP reasons and not just a chance to be buddy-buddy with the admin for a couple of lols. I applauded Hashan for their bold decision to side with 'the enemy' and their in game philosophy seems suited to have done so.

Targossas seems a -whole lot less- appropriate, very sudden, and very out of character. They can do what they want though, and I won't judge them for it, but it really seems like a lot of people in general are absolutely slavering at the chance to talk to these aggressive conquerors like they're just one of your own citizens, all for some amusing banter about a shop, or a pet, or something else. It was fine when it was happening infrequently to lighten the otherwise serious mood, but it really seems like it's 24/7 now.

But maybe I am just a Mhaldorian square who doesn't like fun.

Thank fuck someone else agrees.

Astarod

Davok said:

I'm personally a little tired of this ridiculous, meme-worthy OH LOOK AT THE TSOL'TETH THEY ARE MY DISFUNCTIONAL WAIFU garbage. They are cold alien invaders who deserve no remorse because they're not gonna give anyone theirs, and certainly they do not deserve this rampant admiration some people seem to have for them.

I am giving people the benefit of the doubt when I hear about it taking place IC and hoping it is motivated by real, legitimate RP reasons and not just a chance to be buddy-buddy with the admin for a couple of lols. I applauded Hashan for their bold decision to side with 'the enemy' and their in game philosophy seems suited to have done so.

Targossas seems a -whole lot less- appropriate, very sudden, and very out of character. They can do what they want though, and I won't judge them for it, but it really seems like a lot of people in general are absolutely slavering at the chance to talk to these aggressive conquerors like they're just one of your own citizens, all for some amusing banter about a shop, or a pet, or something else. It was fine when it was happening infrequently to lighten the otherwise serious mood, but it really seems like it's 24/7 now.

But maybe I am just a Mhaldorian square who doesn't like fun.

For once, I have to agree with you. I'm someone who doesn't mind dying, however, I'm tired of this event.

-Tsol'teth are defending factions and interrupting player conflict. 
-Tsol'teth have god-teleports, instant, instant kills, and every single counter we've found has changed mid-event, seemingly. 
-Tide bashing is boring and not many want to do it anymore. 
-We're tired of Tsol'teth interactions taking a lot of time and 'seemingly' going nowhere. 
-We have no direction on where to go or what to do at all, and there's no answers seemingly available anywhere.
-We don't have responses from denizens that really help us at all.
-Cyrene haven't been able to do jack in the city for quite a bit now. 

Essentially, can we get this event down the road a bit? This may seem heavy handed and full of salt, but I want to remind everyone that I don't mind losing, I don't mind dying, and I certainly loved this event moreso when I had more of that! It was fun when the siege of Cyrene happened, because we could kill them, they could kill us, and all the factions weren't pinned against one another, and the Tsol'teth weren't interrupting literally every player v player interaction for cheap kills with their godlike abilities. 

It just feels like bad Achaean-Tsol'teth fanfiction, and what's sad is that Mdor is one of the few cities that has genuinely had the wtf are you doing mentality that I have. I don't care about the processing anymore or the 'designation' shouts- please can we keep it to news? Can we not make market jokes as Tsol'teth? I just want some denizen interaction that actually goes somewhere so we can have some direction other than 'let me show Tsol'teth my pupper'. Barf. 

I don't see how this, right now, rewards players. 

NOTE: This post is not targetted against Hashan, Targossas, Mhaldor, Cyrene, Eleusis or any of the divine or players that have interacted or helped coordinate this event that have gotten this story to the place it is now. I have had a lot of fun. I have thought this was all interesting. I am not considering retiring Astarod or leaving my faction, and I'm not upset as a person of Earth. However, I am salty, and I wish that this event that has so much potential for players could move past this boring period it's in now and could lose some of the OP Tsol'teth, buddy Tsol'teth vibe. 

NOTE 2: "We" refers to citizens of cities that are not city leaders, order leaders, or otherwise. These individuals (much like myself) have only been able to listen to decisions and had to RP according to whatever the choice is for the city. 

NOTE 3: I understand there will be a few people like, "but coalition raids!", and I'll remind you that Krizal did just fine defending Hashan against a zerg attack with literally 6 people v 34. When stationary guards are concerned, defending them isn't as hard as you think it is, however fighting a single Tsol'teth who can 'lol tooros tooros tooros' all day long is boring and not fun. 

Lenn

I've been playing someone who admires cold alien monstrousities for a while now though.

Tahquil

Tsol'teth have gone from a terrible big bad we should all fear their cold alien intellect to Mork from Ork.

I think it's super frustrating that interaction with Tsol'teth come fast and thick while the resistance trying to interact with normal denizens are (or at least feel) ignored. The message being sent is the only way to progress in this plot is to submit to the only place admin are lavishing attention... the Tsol'teth.

Ygia

tsolteth: we want to subsume everything into the meld and anyone who gets in our way will be crushed
y'all: 

Cooper

Jesus, take the bitching to rants.

Elisella

The tsol'teth are going to get defeated with the power of friendship and quirkiness, making it the most Cyrenian way to free Cyrene possible.

Jinos

I don't mind the tsol'teth showing another side to themselves. It's partly what humanizes them enough for factions to reconsider their nemesis. Sows conflict of conscience etc.

For those of us fractured, and sticking to more resistant beliefs it has become a bit frustrating. But I do think the admin have something they're moving towards with this. Right? 

Nicola

Jinos said:

I don't mind the tsol'teth showing another side to themselves. It's partly what humanizes them enough for factions to reconsider their nemesis. Sows conflict of conscience etc.

For those of us fractured, and sticking to more resistant beliefs it has become a bit frustrating. But I do think the admin have something they're moving towards with this. Right? 

Pinky promise.

Makarios

Tahquil said:

Tsol'teth have gone from a terrible big bad we should all fear their cold alien intellect to Mork from Ork.

I think it's super frustrating that interaction with Tsol'teth come fast and thick while the resistance trying to interact with normal denizens are (or at least feel) ignored. The message being sent is the only way to progress in this plot is to submit to the only place admin are lavishing attention... the Tsol'teth.

This one is tough, I'll try to explain.

Most of the Tsol'teth in this event are unknowns. What that in practice means is the person who created it has all the backstory, knows the ins and outs, etc. You'll notice the newer ones around more because there's no chance the person will be unfamiliar with an aspect of the character. Denizens are tough because a lot of the big ones have history spanning back real life decades in some cases, so you quite often might find you need to wait for the person that knows all the ins and outs about that den (or who can put aside time to research it all).

Basically, denizens are definitely tougher. Its something we're aware of and are trying to work on, but they're never going to be as easy for us to spin up for a quick conversation as a new (player/denizen) character straight off the shelf is. We are having discussions about how to make that easier, but hopefully that answers that - its not intentional snubbing, even if it may occasionally seem that way.

Keorin

So, as a quick questiom, is everyone considering the Tsol'teth reports that go up on the events boards to be ICly known information? And if so, how are we justifying that? Because it seems like one of the most important sources of information about their motives, but I'm not sure how they're supposed to be public. Are the Tsol'teth just supposed to be so arrogant that they announce their battle reports for all to see?

Tesha

I really appreciate the people who have approached Tesha ICly to ask her what's going on. By some weird coincidence, they are not among those complaining Targossas' actions make no sense.

Weird.

Cailin

Keorin said:

So, as a quick questiom, is everyone considering the Tsol'teth reports that go up on the events boards to be ICly known information? And if so, how are we justifying that? Because it seems like one of the most important sources of information about their motives, but I'm not sure how they're supposed to be public. Are the Tsol'teth just supposed to be so arrogant that they announce their battle reports for all to see?

This was discussed on the Quick Questions thread, but the short answer is yes.

Skye

Moo.

:P

J/k ily

Lenn

Makarios said:

Tahquil said:

Tsol'teth have gone from a terrible big bad we should all fear their cold alien intellect to Mork from Ork.

I think it's super frustrating that interaction with Tsol'teth come fast and thick while the resistance trying to interact with normal denizens are (or at least feel) ignored. The message being sent is the only way to progress in this plot is to submit to the only place admin are lavishing attention... the Tsol'teth.

This one is tough, I'll try to explain.

Most of the Tsol'teth in this event are unknowns. What that in practice means is the person who created it has all the backstory, knows the ins and outs, etc. You'll notice the newer ones around more because there's no chance the person will be unfamiliar with an aspect of the character. Denizens are tough because a lot of the big ones have history spanning back real life decades in some cases, so you quite often might find you need to wait for the person that knows all the ins and outs about that den (or who can put aside time to research it all).

Basically, denizens are definitely tougher. Its something we're aware of and are trying to work on, but they're never going to be as easy for us to spin up for a quick conversation as a new (player/denizen) character straight off the shelf is. We are having discussions about how to make that easier, but hopefully that answers that - its not intentional snubbing, even if it may occasionally seem that way.

Oh gosh, I almost made a joke about how the tsol'teth will murder the gods and become the new reward for being a volunteer.

But it's actually true after all!

Synthus

Makarios said:

Tahquil said:

Tsol'teth have gone from a terrible big bad we should all fear their cold alien intellect to Mork from Ork.

I think it's super frustrating that interaction with Tsol'teth come fast and thick while the resistance trying to interact with normal denizens are (or at least feel) ignored. The message being sent is the only way to progress in this plot is to submit to the only place admin are lavishing attention... the Tsol'teth.

This one is tough, I'll try to explain.

Most of the Tsol'teth in this event are unknowns. What that in practice means is the person who created it has all the backstory, knows the ins and outs, etc. You'll notice the newer ones around more because there's no chance the person will be unfamiliar with an aspect of the character. Denizens are tough because a lot of the big ones have history spanning back real life decades in some cases, so you quite often might find you need to wait for the person that knows all the ins and outs about that den (or who can put aside time to research it all).

Basically, denizens are definitely tougher. Its something we're aware of and are trying to work on, but they're never going to be as easy for us to spin up for a quick conversation as a new (player/denizen) character straight off the shelf is. We are having discussions about how to make that easier, but hopefully that answers that - its not intentional snubbing, even if it may occasionally seem that way.

I'm sorry, but that seems rather disingenuous to the players that are trying to actively resist the Tsol'teth. 

The Tsol'teth are already overpowered as it is and those of us resisting aren't being given anything with which to fight back with. So far we've had one "council" meeting where the leaders of villages met and all that really came out of it was that the messages Elusis was trying to send to the Tsol'aa weren't making it and the Imp King was cracking jokes; and then we've learned that the Mhunna has sided with the Tsol'teth. 

On the flip side, Tsol'teth are interacting on the regular with Hashan, having duels with players, and actively engaging in Crusades. In short, it's not fair to the players that have to throw themselves against the wall to fight them, and for those of us trying to find non-combat routes to counter them, it feels like we aren't being given anything.

Perhaps shelf the Tsol'teth for a bit while you guys work on making a denizen quick ref sheets please?

Keorin

So, as someone who -has- talked to Targossians about all this...this still doesn't make a ton of sense. It feels like suddenly half the game has decided that the tsol'teth are really just misunderstood, and have clearly turned over a new leaf and just want alliances this time. (Though in Targossas' case, I'm 90% sure that there's been more going on between their leadership and the Tsol'teth since the start of the event, admittedly)

But, it's all not terribly surprising, really. I've been guessing for a while now that the arc of this event goes something like:

a) a temporary truce is formed after talking to the tsol'teth

(Nissa could not have been more unsubtle that it's what the admin want us to do, same with their attention to Hashan and the ease of Tsol'teth interaction compared to interacting with anyone who opposes them)

b) this truce allows the world games to take place

(the the last few events posts have strongly suggested that the world games happen 801 or 802, and it's also been said that we need things a bit less chaotic for that)

c) the tsol'teth compete for the staff and win it

(This event was pretty clearly meant to coincide with the y800 games, making it shocking to me if they didn't intend to integrate the event with them in some way)

With the Tsol'teth in possession of the staff, and likely able to wield it, we reach the climax of this event. I've no guess to how that'll go, but I expect there's a decent chance that "letting the xenophobic, genocidal up-until-this-point-archvillains get control of the superweapon meant to defeat them was a bad idea after all" is a part of it. Also, Parni probably shows up or has to get rescued.

So really, this whole event so far has felt pretty on rails, at least to me. As usual, players'll leap at any hint of admin interaction or shiny toys, and so easily ally with the Tsol'teth, and lots of players will be sympathetic just because they offer interesting interactions. And since there's not going to be any real way to stop them until the admin decide so, it feels like we're all just waiting for the next stop on the train.

Nicola

I'm a little sad to say that every part of the above post is incorrect, (you'd have thought even shots in the dark might have come close.) But anyway, the event is ongoing, and while everyone is welcome to have their opinion further attempts to scope the future aren't appropriate. Play it in game, take the unhappy to rants, keep this section for constructive discussion of what is currently going on.

Adrik

Got to see the processing occur in real time. Lots of worry!

Then got to see the cool thing that came from it!

Much excite for my new Tsol'teth friends.

Keorin

Ah well, back to the drawing board, then.

(Also, apologies for the speculation in this thread. A friend noted to me that it might not be desirable or appropriate, but the ten seconds left on my edit window wasn't enough to change things. I suppose it's not so important, given that it's all wrong, but I'm all for deleting the thing, if it'd be more appropriate for the thread)

Skye

I do think it's weird AF.

That said... I don't think Skye would have dug in her heels as much if her God wasn't like 'yeah they're out to get you'. But then they did kinda take over his city so... And then started taking over her shop so...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

eta: man I hate that Firefox double spaces everything but it works fine on Safari.

Farrah

I feel like people have grossly incorrect interpretations of people's reasons for doing what they do based solely on those people posting short, funny clips of conversations on forums and making comments about waifus on discord. Reducing everything done in game to "just wants admin attention" is kind of insulting, and pretty ignorant. I try to be of the mind of assuming everyone has valid RP reasons for doing things and trying to determine what those are and react to them within the context of the game, rather than assume everything is done for poor metagamey reasons and deride the people who take action in the game.

tldr: I put a lot of thought into what I am doing, so please stop being jerks and dissing me and my city in ooc forums. Thanks.

Cooper

Nothing wrong with what you've done, Skye. It's been great rp and awesome to see play out.

Keorin

I've mostly been being bitter here lately (I tend to use the forums largely to vent, which tends to skew things in that direction). So before I find myself ranting again:

Even if there are parts of this event that I may have found frustrating, I do want to say that I've enjoyed a lot of it. I know the admin are putting quite a lot of work in to make it fun, and I can also appreciate that this really seems to be trying to go a substantially different direction from past events. From my own experience as a (rather poor) DM, I know that putting together a plot that threads the line between significant setbacks and OOC morale can be especially challenging. I can't even imagine what it's like on a scale so many times bigger, and even if there are things I wish were a bit different, I think the admin team puts in their best and is doing a lot of great stuff overall.

Despite those frustrations, I think I prefer something like this that's new, and messy, and has different stakes then we're used to, to something that more closely hews to the last few events. I hope that this event will keep improving for everyone, and that future events will be even better.