I honestly don't understand why people get so salty about having difficulty getting more interactions as a rogue. The game is specifically built around 6 player-run factions: the city-states we all know. If you make the CONSCIOUS DECISION not to join one of those cities, you are making the CONSCIOUS DECISION not to take part in a major part of how this game operates. That's obviously fine, no one will hold it against you for playing the game how you want to play it. However, if you chose to do that, you can't complain when you miss out on things that require you to be in a faction for. You don't get to have your cake and eat it to, that's just not how this works. Don't like it, join a faction.
Also, what Skye and Milabar said. You can still get those interactions as a rogue, its just more difficult.
Being a rogue is highly helped by your character having had meaningful amounts of time spent in other orgs in the past (which both Skye and Milabar have, extensively). Generally building up rapport and a good reputation is what gets you anywhere in Achaea, and orgs are a great way to do so. Someone a long time back summarized playing Achaea as building and spending of your reputation as currency - each and every action (or lack thereof) can either build it, spend it, or sometimes both in a weird effect. I've found that principle is very true, and continues to apply no matter what kind of character in Achaea you play. Don't have enough reputation points? Then no one (including denizens, often, though this'll vary a bit more) will take you very seriously.
And I love too Be still, my indelible friend That love soon might end You are unbreaking And be known in its aching Though quaking Shown in this shaking Though crazy Lately of my wasteland, baby That's just wasteland, baby
That's a lot of responses about denizen interaction, which I wasn't really talking about in the first place.
Surprisingly, even Lenn has gotten plenty of denizen responses over the years, and even in this event in particular.
What I'm challenging is that these events are "player run" in the general sense. Whenever creative input is required, the input is always taken from the most "important" players around. Everyone else is basically disenfranchised or ignored, because they just don't have enough leverage.
The city leaders and a handful of favourites get to play, and that's about it.
This “important player only” narrative is stupid. I’ve seen many, many barely or unknown people get shine during events. Sure, the more well known people are more involved sometimes, but that’s not an administration stance, that’s a knowledge thing. After playing at a high level for 6 years, I would hope that I have more to offer than a relatively unknown rogue non-dragon or whatever, when it comes to world events. Penwize is going to have more to offer on situations that evolve bashing than someone that isn’t even a dragon.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
It's also possible to start by being rogue, but it also means playing a long game and playing it safe for a longer period. It also means a larger investment when it comes to building connections, and that you'd have to do people a lot more favours and avoid making waves. It's the same in Achaea and the same in real life, unfortunately.
ETA: There are a lot of people who mistake 'clamouring for attention' with 'making an event contribution'. And I can say that it's not always the case. Sometimes it's about making the right guess and getting to the macguffin before anyone else. Even if you get ganked and lose it, both players and admin will remember that you were sharp enough to get the answer first. Other times it's simply about paying attention instead of getting caught up with trying to badger the denizen directly.
The reason why a lot of us are viewed as 'event hogs' or 'favourites' isn't because we're particularly liked. For example, I know I'll always be a mean mouthy bitch and people don't like that. Rather, it's simply that we've observed enough events to have the right hunches or notice the right clues without being spoonfed or distracted. And this isn't something that 'just happens cause admin like me'. I followed other 'event favourites' around for a long time before I learned what to watch for in events.
Years after the fact, my event senses aren't even as sharp as they used to be, but people still remember that people like Krypton and Delphinus and me usually saw viable solutions to problems before others did.
@Lenn it is a roleplaying game. The 'important' players are the ones that everyone follows because of their interactions. If you aren't well known outside your circle of friends and you want to be you need to get out there and interact with people, either with RP or Combat. If your RP is to be a contentious old coot that annoys everyone then you can't be surprised when no one listens to you (though I do find it annoying sometimes :P). If you want input on creative stuff or the direction of the game or whatever you have to be a trusted voice, otherwise they may as well just go out the door and grab some random guy off the LA streets and ask him what to do.
That's a lot of responses about denizen interaction, which I wasn't really talking about in the first place.
My response was most definitely a general response about playing Achaea as a whole, not about denizen stuff. Importance helps, but that just influences the major thing I talked about: reputation.
And I love too Be still, my indelible friend That love soon might end You are unbreaking And be known in its aching Though quaking Shown in this shaking Though crazy Lately of my wasteland, baby That's just wasteland, baby
I've declared @Accipiter the winner of this forum debate.
Achaea is indeed a roleplaying game, though my poison of choice is the esteemed goofy catgirl, rather than the contentious old coot route. Fairly unpopular among the serious folk in particular, but that just makes it more fun.
It isn't just the known people getting interactions. Yesterday something really important happened, and only 4 people in the entire game reacted to it. I was the first one there by far, and the denizen ignored me. A minute later a young char from Cyrene shows up and the denizen started talking to them.
Two main points - 97% of players didn't even try to interact with a big plot point, and an unknown novice was able to get interaction out of that denizen by saying the right thing.
No one in Mhaldor has had trouble talking to denizens, but if the rest of the world is only doing what Keorin did, then Mhaldor has put in like 50x the work to try and figure things out and advance the plot.
Keorin, you've brought this frustration up more than once in the past, have you considered maybe you don't ask the right questions, contact the right denizens, do stuff at the right time, or make sure your character is well known enough to make sure denizens know you and want to talk to you? I know my biggest IC interaction with you makes me not want to deal with you IC at all, and we've met IRL.
Remember that denizens respond ICly. Have you ever talked to them? Helped them? Killed them or their friends & allies? Shown interest in their lives? Was it a one time thing, or did you follow up after?
I've spent 20 years playing Cooper, and I've had solid divine & denizen interactions the entire time I have played, including the first 5 years where I maybe had $100 spent on my character. Yeah, that's definitely anecdotal, but I feel if I can make it work, others should be able to as well!
To add on to what Skye mentioned earlier, talk to denizens and send letters even if you don't see any Divine visible or whatever. Some of us (myself included) can't often be visible IG often even if we are actually around due to the constraints associated with the role.
You may not always (or even often) get a response, but we try our best to keep abreast of those things and engage with people where we can. It's also really helpful if you have existing support, relationships or any sort of rapport with said denizens (or the faction they belong to) before proceeding with these things.
Consider that we respond to such requests ICly, and think about whether it makes sense for a particular denizen to even want to help you, especially since all of them have their own goals and motivations. Bring something to the bargaining table to offer! That sort of thing.
@Babel So this bit of information was passed along to Synthus ICly in game as well a couple days ago, but there is one OOC aspect of it that I'm still a little confused on and might help more than just me if it were clarified a bit.
Does GIVING letters to unique denizens that aren't named - like the city alchemists for example - work in this regard, or do they specifically need to be named denizens that you can MAIL LETTER TO from the post office, like Amadeo or Epicurus?
Since MAIL LETTER TO alchemist316543 doesn't seem to work from what I've tried, I've been having Synthus deliver the letters in person, GIVE them to the alchemists, and then say a little piece and go about his way, but does that trigger any sort of flag for you guys on your end? My initial gut reaction says probably not, but I figured I'd ask anyway.
So this bit of information was passed along to Synthus ICly in game as well a couple days ago, but there is one OOC aspect of it that I'm still a little confused on and might help more than just me if it were clarified a bit.
Does GIVING letters to unique denizens that aren't named - like the city alchemists for example - work in this regard, or do they specifically need to be named denizens that you can MAIL LETTER TO from the post office, like Amadeo or Epicurus?
Since MAIL LETTER TO alchemist316543 doesn't seem to work from what I've tried, I've been having Synthus deliver the letters in person, GIVE them to the alchemists, and then say a little piece and go about his way, but does that trigger any sort of flag for you guys on your end? My initial gut reaction says probably not, but I figured I'd ask anyway.
Giving a letter to most denizens definitely doesn't work, many will simply give it back and on the offchance they don't give the letter back we have no idea that this has happened without us happening to check a denizen's inventory.
There is a messenger on the Delos bridge who exists explicitly to deliver letters to (most) denizens, he's the best way to go about it.
So this bit of information was passed along to Synthus ICly in game as well a couple days ago, but there is one OOC aspect of it that I'm still a little confused on and might help more than just me if it were clarified a bit.
Does GIVING letters to unique denizens that aren't named - like the city alchemists for example - work in this regard, or do they specifically need to be named denizens that you can MAIL LETTER TO from the post office, like Amadeo or Epicurus?
Since MAIL LETTER TO alchemist316543 doesn't seem to work from what I've tried, I've been having Synthus deliver the letters in person, GIVE them to the alchemists, and then say a little piece and go about his way, but does that trigger any sort of flag for you guys on your end? My initial gut reaction says probably not, but I figured I'd ask anyway.
Giving a letter to most denizens definitely doesn't work, many will simply give it back and on the offchance they don't give the letter back we have no idea that this has happened without us happening to check a denizen's inventory.
There is a messenger on the Delos bridge who exists explicitly to deliver letters to (most) denizens, he's the best way to go about it.
That would certainly explain it then, thanks Nicola!
Denizen interactions are fun, and with such a big event they're probably hard to manage with all of us running around trying to get a response either by words or action.
I personally don't mind the lack of response on most of the avenues I've been trying so far. I report my findings and attempts to the city and its leadership. And sometimes my character just keeps a few attempts to himself with his own narrative.
I've found reporting things to other players to be more fun. It usually sparks some discussion, or speculation on what's happening.
"Alas. Alas for Hamlin. The Mayor sent east, west, north, and south. To offer the Piper by word of mouth. Wherever it was men's lot to find him, silver and gold to his heart's content. If only he'd return the way he went."
Kaama'lier tells you, "Analysis of Designation Eril incomplete. Subject professes disdain for alteration of emotion, codename "loyalty", while engaging in combat alongside enemies. Recommendation: further analysis."
@Farrah@Penwize@Zenii@Verrucht@Krizal@Nicola@Makarios@Ictinus@Rhivona@everyone I just wanted to take a moment to thank all of you for my favorite part of this entire event. For the vast majority of the game, interactions with enemies or even neutral states are strained and mostly combat or flippant remarks. While I'm sure the admin contributed to this by letting it be, the city leaders really enabled the teaming up against the Tsol'teth threat. I've had better interactions with enemies these last few weeks than easily 98% of any other time I've played Achaea, excluding conversion conversations.
It's been incredibly enjoyable talking with Penwize about ways to fight the Tsol'teth ("I HAVE A GREAT IDEA" "Uh oh"), having Tesha give everything she possibly could to try to save Cyrene, avenge Eleusis any time they lose fragments, and taking citymates with me on these unique experiences. It has been a blast raiding with Ashtan and Hashan has taken it like a champion. Figuring out how to kill the tsol'teth and sacrificing Tesha's own glory to help hinder them for @Dunn was one of the richer decisions I've had to make for Tesha. Tesha worked with @Hirst. Strategized. I would have literally never seen that coming. Getting to play with @Austere and @Irimon on friendly terms again was beautiful. Getting to reconnect with players I haven't had an opportunity to engage with beyond combat has been absolutely amazing. These are the types of interactions that keep the game alive for me. There are so many more little moments I could cite; I could go on forever.
Thank you, sincerely, for enriching the game for me. You're all amazing.
The Divine voice of Twilight echoes in your head, "See that it is. I espy a tithe of potential in your mortal soul, Astarod Blackstone. Let us hope that it flourishes and does not falter as so many do."
Aegis, God of War says, "You are dismissed from My demense, Astarod. Go forth and fight well. Bleed fiercely, and climb the purpose you have sought to chase for."
Comments
Also, what Skye and Milabar said. You can still get those interactions as a rogue, its just more difficult.
That love soon might end You are unbreaking
And be known in its aching Though quaking
Shown in this shaking Though crazy
Lately of my wasteland, baby That's just wasteland, baby
Surprisingly, even Lenn has gotten plenty of denizen responses over the years, and even in this event in particular.
What I'm challenging is that these events are "player run" in the general sense. Whenever creative input is required, the input is always taken from the most "important" players around. Everyone else is basically disenfranchised or ignored, because they just don't have enough leverage.
The city leaders and a handful of favourites get to play, and that's about it.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
ETA: There are a lot of people who mistake 'clamouring for attention' with 'making an event contribution'. And I can say that it's not always the case. Sometimes it's about making the right guess and getting to the macguffin before anyone else. Even if you get ganked and lose it, both players and admin will remember that you were sharp enough to get the answer first. Other times it's simply about paying attention instead of getting caught up with trying to badger the denizen directly.
The reason why a lot of us are viewed as 'event hogs' or 'favourites' isn't because we're particularly liked. For example, I know I'll always be a mean mouthy bitch and people don't like that. Rather, it's simply that we've observed enough events to have the right hunches or notice the right clues without being spoonfed or distracted. And this isn't something that 'just happens cause admin like me'. I followed other 'event favourites' around for a long time before I learned what to watch for in events.
Years after the fact, my event senses aren't even as sharp as they used to be, but people still remember that people like Krypton and Delphinus and me usually saw viable solutions to problems before others did.
That love soon might end You are unbreaking
And be known in its aching Though quaking
Shown in this shaking Though crazy
Lately of my wasteland, baby That's just wasteland, baby
Achaea is indeed a roleplaying game, though my poison of choice is the esteemed goofy catgirl, rather than the contentious old coot route. Fairly unpopular among the serious folk in particular, but that just makes it more fun.
Two main points - 97% of players didn't even try to interact with a big plot point, and an unknown novice was able to get interaction out of that denizen by saying the right thing.
No one in Mhaldor has had trouble talking to denizens, but if the rest of the world is only doing what Keorin did, then Mhaldor has put in like 50x the work to try and figure things out and advance the plot.
Keorin, you've brought this frustration up more than once in the past, have you considered maybe you don't ask the right questions, contact the right denizens, do stuff at the right time, or make sure your character is well known enough to make sure denizens know you and want to talk to you? I know my biggest IC interaction with you makes me not want to deal with you IC at all, and we've met IRL.
Remember that denizens respond ICly. Have you ever talked to them? Helped them? Killed them or their friends & allies? Shown interest in their lives? Was it a one time thing, or did you follow up after?
I've spent 20 years playing Cooper, and I've had solid divine & denizen interactions the entire time I have played, including the first 5 years where I maybe had $100 spent on my character. Yeah, that's definitely anecdotal, but I feel if I can make it work, others should be able to as well!
The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
(Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
Asmodron finds himself in the path of an airborne shrine of the meld, only to be rather abruptly crushed to death.
So this bit of information was passed along to Synthus ICly in game as well a couple days ago, but there is one OOC aspect of it that I'm still a little confused on and might help more than just me if it were clarified a bit.
Does GIVING letters to unique denizens that aren't named - like the city alchemists for example - work in this regard, or do they specifically need to be named denizens that you can MAIL LETTER TO from the post office, like Amadeo or Epicurus?
Since MAIL LETTER TO alchemist316543 doesn't seem to work from what I've tried, I've been having Synthus deliver the letters in person, GIVE them to the alchemists, and then say a little piece and go about his way, but does that trigger any sort of flag for you guys on your end? My initial gut reaction says probably not, but I figured I'd ask anyway.
There is a messenger on the Delos bridge who exists explicitly to deliver letters to (most) denizens, he's the best way to go about it.
...I'm unsure if I want the answer to be yes or no.
The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
(Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
I personally don't mind the lack of response on most of the avenues I've been trying so far. I report my findings and attempts to the city and its leadership. And sometimes my character just keeps a few attempts to himself with his own narrative.
I've found reporting things to other players to be more fun. It usually sparks some discussion, or speculation on what's happening.
The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
(Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
The soul of Ashmond says, "Always with the sniping."
(Clan): Ictinus says, "Stop it Jiraishin, you're making me like you."
i'm a rebel
When you hear about Targ leaving the Coalition:
Aegis, God of War says, "You are dismissed from My demense, Astarod. Go forth and fight well. Bleed fiercely, and climb the purpose you have sought to chase for."