Refugees of Shallam, how are you coping?

Asmodron

let's just scrap the idea of a city of Good and Light, it's bound to fail, they all do. Not once have I seen a stable and structured Good RP city in my mudding life.

Favonius

Kakotas said:

@Asmodron

This is a redeeming quality. No 5-7 different houses all requiring a full command structure where people go dormant. 2-3 houses and that's it.

I've been thinking about this and it would be interesting to see The Faction Formerly Known as Shallam organised into a few coherent Good archetypes, not just continuations of the original Shallamese guilds.

Some possibilities might be:

Swords of Valour: Those who learn the value of valour and chivalry, and all Sapience has to teach about the art of handling a blade. They protect those who need it most... and put those who oppose the Bloodsworn Gods to the sword.

Could accept: Templar, Runewarden, Blademaster, (Bard?)

Spiritualists of the Light: Those who choose a life of utmost dedication to the Light, making both their minds and bodies the perfect tool to banish the darkness of Evil and Chaos and spread the word of Good.

Could accept: Priest, Monk, (Magi?), (Alchemist?)

Artisans of Creation: In peace, the crafters who shape and mould the fabric of reality, and make the reborn City of Good the finest monument to Creation since Seleucar of old. In war, those who manufacture the siege weapons... and Holocaust Bombs.

Could accept: Alchemist, Magi

Emissaries of Good: James Bond meets the Spanish Inquisition. The Light's cadre of diplomats, assassins and spies: educated, enlightened, debonair, brilliant... and deadly. Will charm or dispose of any enemy who opposes the will of the Lightbringer and the Righteous Fire.

Could accept: Serpent, Bard, Jester

Tvistor

You literally just described exactly what the old Houses were supposed to be like and then gave them different names. (apart from Artisans of Creation)

...

Yeah sure, let's do it.

Lodi

I've been keeping out of this conversation up until now, but I thought it wouldn't hurt to put in my two cents. This ideas been banging around in my head for a while.

If I was planning this (which I know I'm not, but this is an open discussion) I'd keep the reformation simple. The simpler the idea, the wider the scope for development.

I'd create only two organisations to replace the houses. Why only two? Because there's two general groups that players fall into: combat and creative (chat-room users don't count as players).

The first org is combat orientated and overseen by Deucalion. The second org is for the writers and overseen by Aurora.

Perhaps to divide up the internal administrative work, each org subdivides down into two chapters (Knights/Assasins, Scholars/Artists maybe). This would mean there is no single 'leader' for each org. Instead, each org is controlled by the heads of its internal chapters, ultimately meaning that two people share leadership. Which nicley mirrors Deucalion and Aurora's overall control of Good.

I know I'm not part of Shallam so this doesn't mean anything. Thought I'd share anyway. Good luck with the re-build! I'm sure whats going to grow out of it will be amazing.

Edit: Whoops! Re-edited this before I noticed Terra's response. Heh.

Terra

Lodi said:

I've been keeping out of this conversation up until now, but I thought it wouldn't hurt to put in my two cents. This ideas been banging around in my head for a while.

If I was planning this (which I know I'm not, but this is an open discussion) I'd keep the reformation simple. The simpler the idea, the wider the scope for development.

I'd create only two organisations to replace the houses. Why only two? Because there's two general groups that players fall into: combat and creative (chat-room users don't count as players).

The first org is combat orientated and overseen by Deucalion. The second org is for the writers and overseen by Aurora. The first org subdivides down into two chapters: Knights and Assassins. The second org also subdivides down into two chapters: Priests (Preachers, Ritualists) and Scholars (Academics, Artists). There is no single 'leader' for each org. Instead, each org is controlled by the heads of its internal chapters, ultimately meaning that two people share leadership. Just like Deucalion and Aurora.

I actually dislike dividing things into combat vs non-combat. I like people being encouraged to participate some in both.

Also, it'd probably have to be reverse in terms of who patrons what (Deucalion isn't really combat oriented, I think Aurora is moreso?), and even then it wouldn't fit particularly well. It isn't really how Deuc/Aurora seem to be dividing their realms.

Lodi

It was just an idea. And I wouldn't say that the divide between the two spheres (I personally hate the phrase 'non-combat', combat shouldn't be a defining element with everything IG) would be ridged, far from it. Just a general acknowledgment that allows people who want to lean slightly towards one or the other a chance to do so.

Edit: What I was basically trying to say, is keep it loose, keep it simple. Then things can get a chance to breath.

Synbios

Perhaps you're thinking of one house being the extrovert, 'extol the virtues of the Light and take the fight to its enemies' House and its introvert counterpart that goes 'nurture the faith of those who follow the Light and weed out any corruption that may infect them'.

Lyndee

How am I coping? Mostly really bored and tired of not having enchantment rooms or a master crystal. 2 out of 3 class skills being limited is kind of a bummer.  

The event was cool, but the fallout maddening. As someone who has tried hard to work within new structures and give them credence and validity, only to have it fail many times over - it's hard to justify taking a remote interest in devoting myself to it again. After taking a short break, I'm now trying to focus on offering some contributions that I can toward a new status quo.

From my viewpoint, I don't want a new city with a complex organizational structure, including the houses. The last thing we need is more layers of player bureaucracy. Those players that did well and rose above in Shallam tend to be people who were focused and individually driven to achieve. They didn't succeed because of Shallam; they succeeded in spite of her. And many, many talented players were lost because they just couldn't hack it dealing with the inanity of the structures in place. If those layered structures carry over to keep good talent down, then we'll fall into much of the same traps we did before.

House wise, there never were 5 distinct paths to Light and there never should have been that many houses; they were just relics of the guild system. I think 2 or 3 is sufficient.  Keeping the number down will keep people (and leadership) focused on the wellbeing of the nascent city which will probably be realllly important.

Favonius

@Tvistor

In my defence I did delete the Crystalline Circle

(Sorry Veldrin)

Kakotas

Lodi said:

I've been keeping out of this conversation up until now, but I thought it wouldn't hurt to put in my two cents. This ideas been banging around in my head for a while.

If I was planning this (which I know I'm not, but this is an open discussion) I'd keep the reformation simple. The simpler the idea, the wider the scope for development.

I'd create only two organisations to replace the houses. Why only two? Because there's two general groups that players fall into: combat and creative (chat-room users don't count as players).

The first org is combat orientated and overseen by Deucalion. The second org is for the writers and overseen by Aurora.

Perhaps to divide up the internal administrative work, each org subdivides down into two chapters (Knights/Assasins, Scholars/Artists maybe). This would mean there is no single 'leader' for each org. Instead, each org is controlled by the heads of its internal chapters, ultimately meaning that two people share leadership. Which nicley mirrors Deucalion and Aurora's overall control of Good.

I know I'm not part of Shallam so this doesn't mean anything. Thought I'd share anyway. Good luck with the re-build! I'm sure whats going to grow out of it will be amazing.

Edit: Whoops! Re-edited this before I noticed Terra's response. Heh.

i'm agreeing with Lodi... @pentharian help us all...

Veldrin

Favonius said:

@Tvistor In my defence I did delete the Crystalline Circle (Sorry Veldrin)

No, you just renamed it into that Artisan thing

Trey

Kakotas said:

Lodi said:

I've been keeping out of this conversation up until now, but I thought it wouldn't hurt to put in my two cents. This ideas been banging around in my head for a while.

If I was planning this (which I know I'm not, but this is an open discussion) I'd keep the reformation simple. The simpler the idea, the wider the scope for development.

I'd create only two organisations to replace the houses. Why only two? Because there's two general groups that players fall into: combat and creative (chat-room users don't count as players).

The first org is combat orientated and overseen by Deucalion. The second org is for the writers and overseen by Aurora.

Perhaps to divide up the internal administrative work, each org subdivides down into two chapters (Knights/Assasins, Scholars/Artists maybe). This would mean there is no single 'leader' for each org. Instead, each org is controlled by the heads of its internal chapters, ultimately meaning that two people share leadership. Which nicley mirrors Deucalion and Aurora's overall control of Good.

I know I'm not part of Shallam so this doesn't mean anything. Thought I'd share anyway. Good luck with the re-build! I'm sure whats going to grow out of it will be amazing.

Edit: Whoops! Re-edited this before I noticed Terra's response. Heh.

i'm agreeing with Lodi... *pentharian help us all...

FTFY

Halos

Lyndee said:

How am I coping? Mostly really bored and tired of not having enchantment rooms or a master crystal. 2 out of 3 class skills being limited is kind of a bummer.  

The event was cool, but the fallout maddening. As someone who has tried hard to work within new structures and give them credence and validity, only to have it fail many times over - it's hard to justify taking a remote interest in devoting myself to it again. After taking a short break, I'm now trying to focus on offering some contributions that I can toward a new status quo.

From my viewpoint, I don't want a new city with a complex organizational structure, including the houses. The last thing we need is more layers of player bureaucracy. Those players that did well and rose above in Shallam tend to be people who were focused and individually driven to achieve. They didn't succeed because of Shallam; they succeeded in spite of her. And many, many talented players were lost because they just couldn't hack it dealing with the inanity of the structures in place. If those layered structures carry over to keep good talent down, then we'll fall into much of the same traps we did before.

House wise, there never were 5 distinct paths to Light and there never should have been that many houses; they were just relics of the guild system. I think 2 or 3 is sufficient.  Keeping the number down will keep people (and leadership) focused on the wellbeing of the nascent city which will probably be realllly important.

Preach!

Melodie

You guys had/are having a meeting that's longer than all the Senate meetings combined for the last month!

Hope it was productive, whatever happened.

Silas

Lots of cat herding tbh.

Fun stuff, tho. Much love again to the players of *shallam (RIP).

Synbios

Silas said:

Lots of cat herding tbh.

Fun stuff, tho. Much love again to the players of *shallam (RIP).

I was the fat persian cat in the centre. 

Ofra

Favonius said:

 Emissaries of Good: James Bond meets the Spanish Inquisition. The Light's cadre of diplomats, assassins and spies: educated, enlightened, debonair, brilliant... and deadly. Will charm or dispose of any enemy who opposes the will of the Lightbringer and the Righteous Fire. Could accept: Serpent, Bard, Jester

Honestly I could get behind that would be awesome

Ognog

No one ever expects the Spanish Inquisition

Asmodron

Honestly if I was shallamese would go something like this:

Shallamese 1: You know what..?

Shallamese 2: What?

Shallamese 1: F*** this continent, let's just go to Meropis. We've had nothing but ass shit luck here.

Shallamese 2: Got a point..

Shallamese 1: Let's just go to Seleucar ruins and rebuild it. At least they HAVE ruins to rebuild, ours are underwater.

Shallamese 2: I like it!

Shallamese 1: so F*** Chaos. F*** Evil. F*** the Te'Serra. and F*** Sapience. Let's sail!

- A large group of refugees board their vessels, sailing away across the ocean, never to return to Sapience -

You hear in the distance "F*** you all!"

Veldrin

Seleucar is behind a barrier so you still can't enter the city. It have been suggested IG!

Yen

Let's see, what have I been doing.  Hunting, a lot.  Seeing if I can figure out some quests I haven't had a stab at in a while.  Wondering if I'm cut out to be in a militant city.  Wondering if Shallam's destruction is, somehow, a rejection of an institution I helped build and sustain for many, many years.  Deep existential and often depressing questions.

I'm not sure where everything is going.  The deadline for submitting ideas is soon (New Year's?) but that doesn't mean there will be some kind of decision in a few days.  I wish there were more incremental progress.  A denizen arriving here and there.  A road.  A village with no Houses in it.

Which isn't to say there are no ideas.  There are lots of ideas.  That there should be two or three Houses, for instance.  That the leader should once again be Divinely appointed.  Various suggestions as to the location.  But these do not seem new, they seem much like Shallam was, at a particular point in its history (we may have had five Houses, but we didn't have five factions).  Or maybe I have seen too much history.  As a poet said: "What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun."  Will it really be new?  That is another disturbing question.

So anyway, it is a lot of waiting, and a lot of reflecting, with no resolution expected any time soon.

Tanaar

Meropis has been considered and rejected multiple times IG, with the caveat that it is actually pretty ideal if we could work out a transportation solution. It's just too far from any kind of action, barring some sort of static portal between a friendly village on Sapience and a location outside the new gates. That would destroy the entire concept of Meropis as a far-off continent though.

Vayne

Tanaar said:

Meropis has been considered and rejected multiple times IG, with the caveat that it is actually pretty ideal if we could work out a transportation solution. It's just too far from any kind of action, barring some sort of static portal between a friendly village on Sapience and a location outside the new gates. That would destroy the entire concept of Meropis as a far-off continent though.

Solution: Send the peace loving Cyrenians to Meropis where they will enjoy the distance from the conflicts of Sapience, demolish Cyrene, rebuild a mountain fortress of Good.

Melodie

But Vayne bby, you'll never visit me, anymore.

Iocun

Who'll never visit you anymore?

Aerek

Vayne said:

Tanaar said:

Meropis has been considered and rejected multiple times IG, with the caveat that it is actually pretty ideal if we could work out a transportation solution. It's just too far from any kind of action, barring some sort of static portal between a friendly village on Sapience and a location outside the new gates. That would destroy the entire concept of Meropis as a far-off continent though.

Solution: Send the peace loving Cyrenians to Meropis where they will enjoy the distance from the conflicts of Sapience, demolish Cyrene, rebuild a mountain fortress of Good.

Where do I sign? I will lead the Nicatorian exodus, myself. Quick, someone find me a Severian, Gods know there's no shortage of people who like to argue with me!

Favonius

Plot-wise, I'd love to see ex-Shallam rebuilding Seleucar and I'd support any game-mechanic changes needed to make it workable.

Meropis is accessible by ferry and foot now, just need more development in that direction to make it a shorter journey. Also wings and Gare exits. We need more players on Meropis anyway to appreciate the awesome building effort that has gone into it!

It would be a truly epic plot development.

Kakotas

Tanaar said:

Meropis has been considered and rejected multiple times IG, with the caveat that it is actually pretty ideal if we could work out a transportation solution. It's just too far from any kind of action, barring some sort of static portal between a friendly village on Sapience and a location outside the new gates. That would destroy the entire concept of Meropis as a far-off continent though.

Not particularly I've been working on that some actually. It would be fine if it were a limited per month usage (non newbies) and depended upon a sort of inane task like once a year sanctifying something (aka easy newbie quest). It was the one caveat I noted in the report. And as soon as house charters are done I'm meeting with some people to work on it.

Anaidiana

and then when all the newbies a) can't get to us because there's no portals off Loom and/or b) when they all get eaten by the grizzlies on their way home when they've learned how to walk it...

Achilles

No no no no no on Meropis or anything that purposely hides us from conflict.  Good is moving in a new direction where it will proactively seek to snuff out evil/darkness/chaos.  If you feel like avoiding combat-based conflict, move to Cyrene, that's more of their thing.