Quick Combat Questions

Arditi

@Jovolo is qualified to speak about the lack of skill necessary to be a Runewarden, as he's been every class at least three times. Serpent twice, though. Naga wasn't a good fit for him.

Strata

@Jovolo does make some pretty valid points. And whether he is actually bitter or not is debatable. Though any class can be "boring, simple, cookie cutter" depending on how you play it.

Is it not true that most PK kills occur during group skirmishes or raids? Is it not also true that aside from a small handful of people (usually those leading the groups and 1 or 2 of their most skilled in the group), the majority of those participating are "simple, cookie cutter"? They go for max hindering and damage because that's what works and it's easy. While some would say "Achaea should be dumbed down so everyone can participate in combat.", I say

"Achaea is as dumbed down or complex as each one wants it to be." There are skills and abilities of every class that allow total non-combatants whom can't or do not wish to code to contribute to a team effort and have fun in COMBAT.

Respect to anyone who continues to improve themselves beyond said basic abilities and skill and get into more 1v1 combat.

Jovolo

Pahah

p.s I am tiny. I compensate in forum arguments.

Holding down DSL to damage someone out not different to locking someone as Apostate or Serpent, or rift locking or pipe or focus locking or actually spiking damage with afflictions as opposed to the straight DSL damage, though? One-Class Mind illness comes in to play.

Anedhel

I just reject the notion that there's something inherently artful in chasing balance to afflict, versus chasing balance to do damage. If you're dying quickly to unprepped damage, then you either need to find a way to play better defence, or find a way to be beefier. There's nothing you can do about some things- some monks'll kick your ass if they catch you long enough to axekick you, because of artefacts and the icon, but that's just life. Learn to be better.

Despite everything, I can actually understand the frustration. But, there -is- skill in damage classes. For the most part, no one worth fighting will die to straight DSL damage, and damage tends to be more easily defended against than some of the more lethal affliction classes. Not to mention, DSL itself is extremely easy to slow down. No reason to lose against that alone, unless you're tiny.

Athrax

I actually agree with @Jovolo as well.  Especially about runewarden being cookie-cutter and boring.  I blame the garden for this, since they absolutely refuse to show the class any love (or hate)... it's the class that keeps on keeping as it is, despite that fact that pretty much everyone hates the way it is.  Wait?  Is this the rants thread?

Anedhel

Man, I must be doing runie all wrong. I guess I need to just hold down the DSL button harder and win

Jovolo

Yes

Athrax

@Anedhel - I'm not completely bashing the class, I'm just being honest about the state of it at the moment.   Yes, there are runewardens who actually use venoms creatively, use runes creatively, and set up limbs to always go for a disembowel, but lets be honest... there are just are a lot MORE runewardens who simply turn on fury and pound the dsl key like it's going out of style.  In what way is that fun at all?

Like I've said though, I know I'm doing it wrong.  I just choose to have fun while failing until I can multiclass.  Ashuran Monk ftw, because that's not cookie-cutter at all!

Anedhel

If the measure of a class' worth is in how the worst people at it play it, then there's no good class in Achaea.

Jovolo

But in how the class can be played to high effect with minimal effort, well that is all the more poignant (and why it's boring)

Athrax

Jovolo said:

But in how the class can be played to high effect with minimal effort, well that is all the more poignant (and why it's boring)

There are far worse classes than Runewarden for this example.

Jovolo

That don't include lots of credits? Not that money, if any.

Anedhel

Sorry, but it just sounds like you're bitter about dying to some people you feel you shouldn't've lost to. I still don't buy the argument that there's no way to stop dying to straight up DSL, specially from Runewardens not wearing artefacts.

If you're dying to a lame approach, maybe it's time to examine what you're doing wrong?

Strata

I do have a one-class-mind. Not a combat expert. And since I am no expert, I want to be the best at the ONE class I chose. It's more enjoyable for me to stay a serpent and learn about other classes by loosing to them than to "OMGWTFBBQ FML I just got beat by a monk, time to change to monk now." From my one-class-mind perspective, I see damage knights as cheap and boring. And @Athrax is awesome because he is doing the same thing I do - try to have fun and get really good at a specific class instead of trying to be class MacGuyver.

Jovolo

Depends entirely on the class you are, defensively. Sometimes there just isn't much you can do. Other times, you can stick clumsiness and/or disrupt for days. I see problems with the output of the class, and the straightforward approach that can be employed by users of it. Those problems should also be resolved, soon. Ish.

Anedhel

Jovolo said:

Depends entirely on the class you are, defensively. Sometimes there just isn't much you can do. Other times, you can stick clumsiness and/or disrupt for days. I see problems with the output of the class, and the straightforward approach that can be employed by users of it. Those problems should also be resolved, soon. Ish.

Homie, that's a problem everyone has. Some classes don't match up well against others. And then, there are some classes they have a huge advantage on.

The only class I can honestly has no reason to beat a runewarden, unless the runewarden's being stupid, is blademaster. I can honestly say that's a fucked up match-up for the blademaster. But, there's classes, I'm sure, that blademasters have an easy time against. It's just the nature of the game.

Jovolo

Okay dear, okay.

Anedhel

Chin up! Things will get better

Exelethril

You could always just run and shield..? Runewardens are the easiest to kite of the three knight classes and most utility runes are accessible to everyone, including weapon stat boosting ones. 

There will always be a disparity with tanking between being sub-80 unartied versus being level 100+/artied though, since Runewardens were designed to do more damage with Runeblades to make up for the lack of power from Devotion/Necromancy.

Anedhel

Exelethril said:

You could always just run and shield..? Runewardens are the easiest to kite of the three knight classes and most utility runes are accessible to everyone, including weapon stat boosting ones. 

There will always be a disparity with tanking between being sub-80 unartied versus being level 100+/artied though, since Runewardens were designed to do more damage with Runeblades to make up for the lack of power from Devotion/Necromancy.

No, he can't. Haven't you been reading? You can't stop that shit :O

Jovolo

If only they had an ability to damage you upon running and raze shields and do damage and still hit passively oh wait. I guess you could spend the entire fight shielding to just prolong death and go afk. Of course theres a difference between Logosian no artefacts tanking and Dragons with artefacts tanking. The former is an entry level for mid to high tier. Total exaggeration of defensive capability in disregard for offensive capability is exactly why we can't have nice things.

What is this, noob hour. Time to leave.

Anedhel

Oh man. Someone call a waaambulance, engage hurts!

ETA: You know there's afflictions and stuff that also stop DSL, right?
ETA: You're totally right. People shouldn't ever have to play defense to stay alive.

Eld

Exelethril said:

You could always just run and shield..? Runewardens are the easiest to kite of the three knight classes and most utility runes are accessible to everyone, including weapon stat boosting ones. 

There will always be a disparity with tanking between being sub-80 unartied versus being level 100+/artied though, since Runewardens were designed to do more damage with Runeblades to make up for the lack of power from Devotion/Necromancy.

Sure, you can run on every second or third DSL. The question is more whether that should be necessary. Not sure what your point about the availability of runes was supposed to be.

Jovolo

You know there are cures and stuff that get rid of afflictions right? We could do this all day, I really gotta go though. One time you'll learn to utilize all of your offence and maaaybe then you'll catch on.

It's been fun.

Anedhel

There's a ton of momentum classes in Achaea. If you don't run against an alchemist every couple seconds, you're going to kick the bucket, for instance. Why's that legit, but DSL isn't? I really don't understand that argument. Unless you mean there should never be such thing as a momentum class?

ETA: Byebye, cutiepie

Naisar

Mizik said:

... meteor? Ah for magi who flood.

Yes, but what I meant is that because Thurisaz fires at the end of its balance time while meteor fires at the beginning, if you thurisaz->meteor the target gets hit with both at the same time.  It's probably still better to Thurisaz most of the time, but watching someone get volcanoed/meteored/hailstormed and battleaxed in the space of half a second makes me giggle.

Mizik

Gotcha

Strata

Naisar said:

Mizik said:

... meteor? Ah for magi who flood.

Yes, but what I meant is that because Thurisaz fires at the end of its balance time while meteor fires at the beginning, if you thurisaz->meteor the target gets hit with both at the same time.  It's probably still better to Thurisaz most of the time, but watching someone get volcanoed/meteored/hailstormed and battleaxed in the space of half a second makes me giggle.

Can I have your alias for this whole set-up? Or would that be giving out your entire script?

Athrax

Strata said:

Naisar said:

Mizik said:

... meteor? Ah for magi who flood.

Yes, but what I meant is that because Thurisaz fires at the end of its balance time while meteor fires at the beginning, if you thurisaz->meteor the target gets hit with both at the same time.  It's probably still better to Thurisaz most of the time, but watching someone get volcanoed/meteored/hailstormed and battleaxed in the space of half a second makes me giggle.

Can I have your alias for this whole set-up? Or would that be giving out your entire script?

For me that would be...

Ctrl-2 (thurisaz), bam(alias to switch to bow and meteor), Ctrl-3 (hugalaz), Ctrl-8 (untargetted switch to battleaxes with double prefarar hit)

Jovolo

Willpower