Quick Combat Questions

Nakari

so, sylvan race spec post-changes.

I'm tsol'aa with the robust trait, and I'm guessing that 12 base con is good enough with viridian and all the other sylvan goodies.

Still, I'd miss having 4.5k health, and is the damage boost from 15 to 17 con particularly dramatic?

Makarios

You'll likely find you can put out equal or better numbers with the same int as you had strength previously. This does mean that higher int sylvan will be putting out a lot better numbers than they were when they were str based, but you can safely stay a lower int spec in theory and not really see any changes (for PVE). If you want to see the benefits for PVP, you'll want to spec int.

Nakari

the thing is that before I couldn't reasonably spec in either int or strength because I had to use both, so the new choice isn't available for me.

I guess the real question is basically just what health level is needed to survive in pvp as a sylvan? We get a ton of tanking abilities, but I have virtually no ways to hinder.

Jovolo

For new Sylvan PvP, 3850+ health seems like a reasonable number. I think they might get reflections? Also aerial and sandling. Add sip bonus from concocts. It's also now a race to the finish line what with parry prevention and break/prone in 4 rends and heartseed as a finisher, so you'll be putting people on the defensive (and you can always illusion shielding and mix it up with real shield. Same with reflect.) Tanking is fairly solid when you get creative

Mizik

Non issue with viridian, really. Still, con out pre Dragon, then totally max out int.

Exelethril

Athrax said:

@Antonius - I'm probably just doing it wrong.
@Penwize - I don't normally go for damage kills.  I am pretty much always going to go for the dsb, I give myself bonus points if I can stick stupidity for a bit for the chuckles before the end.
@Xer - Last time I fought Kardal, He was artied out the ears, with a lvl 3 axe/scimitar combo if I remember correct.  Yes, that's a lot of damage.

Also, I don't use hugalaz runeblades, which could be part of it as well.  Or maybe everyone is just that much better than me.   I'm gonna go sulk in a corner for a while.

@Athrax : I was on mana priority the first time around we sparred because of my previous spars with a priest. You definitely do quite a lot of damage with those soulpiercers though, bringing me down to ~1000 health at certain points just from DSL damage alone, ow. Also.. how did you tank my 19 STR torso damage disembowels?!

Athrax

@Exeletril - I tank a ton of damage through the power of positive tanking and my nightly sacrifices of cuddly kittens.

Also, I cured the torso damage before you got the impale on, you did the same to me in the same fight, and mine are 20 STR !  You must sacrifice more kittens.

Antonius

Even with torso damage, 19 strength disembowels are only about ~89% of your maximum health, less with runes, truefavour, etc, so easily survivable if you're tanky enough to keep at full health before the disembowel goes through.

Athrax

Antonius said:

Even with torso damage, 19 strength disembowels are only about ~89% of your maximum health, less with runes, truefavour, etc, so easily survivable if you're tanky enough to keep at full health before the disembowel goes through.

This is truth.  But when you're fighting a knight with 19 strength you're gonna have a hard time staying at full health before the disembowel.

Antonius

19 strength disembowel generally means 17 strength doubleslashes, which is easily tankable for a lot of classes or people with artefacts. The only time it's not is Runewarden, because thurisaz damage is absolutely retarded.

Athrax

Antonius said:

19 strength disembowel generally means 17 strength disembowels, which is easily tankable for a lot of classes or people with artefacts. The only time it's not is Runewarden, because thurisaz damage is absolutely retarded.

  Am I the only person that only does fury on impale or what?  This should be a thing, people should emulate me more.  My 20 STR disembowel is generally a 20 STR disembowel.

Antonius

@Athrax: This is why I shouldn't forums while watching tv. That first part should read: 19 strength disembowel generally means 17 strength doubleslashes. Since, yes, I expect most knights to be saving Fury for the disembowel.

Achilles

Athrax said:

Antonius said:

19 strength disembowel generally means 17 strength disembowels, which is easily tankable for a lot of classes or people with artefacts. The only time it's not is Runewarden, because thurisaz damage is absolutely retarded.

  Am I the only person that only does fury on impale or what?  This should be a thing, people should emulate me more.  My 20 STR disembowel is generally a 20 STR disembowel.

No, it's general practice for decent knights going for dsb kills that you dont want to waste your fury (non knights, fury can only be used for 10 minutes per hour).  You can actually turn on fury and engage (if for some reason you aren't engaging them already) before you get balance back from impale (fury and engage both take up equilbrium) if you have an aldar talisman/diadem.

Knights can have a difficult time killing monks (numb) and necromancers (they can vigour proned) even with a torso damage dsb unless they can stack a lot of pre-damage prior to their break chain.

Athrax

Achilles said:

Athrax said:

Antonius said:

19 strength disembowel generally means 17 strength disembowels, which is easily tankable for a lot of classes or people with artefacts. The only time it's not is Runewarden, because thurisaz damage is absolutely retarded.

  Am I the only person that only does fury on impale or what?  This should be a thing, people should emulate me more.  My 20 STR disembowel is generally a 20 STR disembowel.

No, it's general practice for decent knights going for dsb kills that you dont want to waste your fury (non knights, fury can only be used for 10 minutes per hour).  You can actually turn on fury and engage (if for some reason you aren't engaging them already) before you get balance back from impale (fury and engage both take up equilbrium) if you have an aldar talisman/diadem.

Knights can have a difficult time killing monks (numb) and necromancers (they can vigour proned) even with a torso damage dsb unless they can stack a lot of pre-damage prior to their break chain.

If a monk numbs on the disembowel I just quickly switch to my battleaxes while I still have fury up, and hit a quick double pref dsb.  Usually finishes the job.

Anedhel

Break/Impale/DSB/Switch will have a person getting rebounding up again. One of the reasons Runewardens lose kills often. If you're going to live through the DSB, runie can't really finish you off (unless for some reason you sat there and let 'em sketch a bunch of runes pre-breaks).

Nemutaur

Anedhel said:

Break/Impale/DSB/Switch will have a person getting rebounding up again. One of the reasons Runewardens lose kills often. If you're going to live through the DSB, runie can't really finish you off (unless for some reason you sat there and let 'em sketch a bunch of runes pre-breaks).

He's probably used to fighting me and I don't fight with rebounding at all since good knights will hit it on purpose to mess up my count and good serpents will grab a nice fat flail out of their bags and do the same.

Anedhel

Oh. Gotcha.

Athrax

Nemutaur said:

Anedhel said:

Break/Impale/DSB/Switch will have a person getting rebounding up again. One of the reasons Runewardens lose kills often. If you're going to live through the DSB, runie can't really finish you off (unless for some reason you sat there and let 'em sketch a bunch of runes pre-breaks).

He's probably used to fighting me and I don't fight with rebounding at all since good knights will hit it on purpose to mess up my count and good serpents will grab a nice fat flail out of their bags and do the same.

You, Denex, and Rinzai constantly.  And yes, I will absolutely reset a leg when you get close to double prep if you use rebounding.

Anedhel

All of them artied to the teeth

Mizik

Thurisaz once or twice, Hugalaz, then DSB. Rebounding will come up if they magically survive. Lunge is our Purity/Arc.

Don't DSB Monks. Just keep slashing arms.

Naisar

Stacking Thurisaz, Meteor, and Hugalaz to all hit at the same time is pretty funny.

Mizik

... meteor? Ah for magi who flood.

Athrax

Naisar said:

Stacking Thurisaz, Meteor, and Hugalaz to all hit at the same time is pretty funny.

When I feel like being lame, I'll stack Thurisaz, Hugalaz, fury, and try to time a battleaxe dsl with the hugalaz tic.  I think I did it to Nemutaur once and actually got a hugalaz proc on the dsl....  I only do that to people I love though, because it's kind of superlame.

Iocun

I may be missing something here - but what's lame about stacking damage?

I hope people don't find me lame for stacking afflictions!

Strata

Iocun said:

I may be missing something here - but what's lame about stacking damage? I hope people don't find me lame for stacking afflictions!

I try to stack both. But it usually ends up in me stacking my own demise! mwahahahahaha.

Athrax

Iocun said:

I may be missing something here - but what's lame about stacking damage? I hope people don't find me lame for stacking afflictions!

@Iocun - for leather armor wearers, I can literally one-shot someone if they're under 4k health and hugalaz procs on the axe.  You may not think it's lame, but to me it just seems a bit cheap.  I'd much rather work on actually stacking afflictions and getting the breaks for the disembowel. 

Jovolo

The damage in and of itself may be lame, but exploiting a class weakness is just combat.

Anedhel

I'm with Iocun. I don't see why damage is 'lame'. It's more unreliable than some classes which have solid set-ups, making it more difficult to kill people (particularly clever/tough fighters) with damage, in the long run. It's an art, too.

As for rune damage... it's pretty lolworthy, but it's also easy as hell to avoid.

Jovolo

Anedhel said:

I'm with Iocun. I don't see why damage is 'lame'. It's more unreliable than some classes which have solid set-ups, making it more difficult to kill people (particularly clever/tough fighters) with damage, in the long run. It's an art, too.

As for rune damage... it's pretty lolworthy, but it's also easy as hell to avoid.

Not really. Pre emptive thurisaz and thats only if you have access to Flood in the first place. Killing people with damage itself isn't an art form you noob, allow me to introduce you to Salik, Kest, Deladan, etc. Anyone can do it, the most prominent names of the damage industry are there because they couldn't do shit else.

Runewarden is the most boring, simple, cookie cutter class out there. Anyone that goes Runewarden and then legitimately thinks they have skill is the worst kind of combatant. If you would, The noobtuber of the Call Of Duty World, step up. Enjoy your pointless experience of an easy time.

Get some.

I liked the part where damage was referred to as unreliable.

Anedhel

My, my, someone's bitter.