Quick Combat Questions

Cooper

I really dislike the 'run a -lot- until you have enough fashions to kill' mentality. Really, really hate it.

When my alt was a Shaman I just cursed people to death. Screw messing around with puppets.

Zeon

@Cooper lets collaborate on a written piece, The Art of Manly PK. You cover the chapters on buying arties and doesn't afraid of anything. I'll cover the chapters on always killing someone if you have a chance and not hesitating to change class if you realize there is a mechanic you can take advantage of.

Cooper

We'll have to change the chapter of buying arties to getting arties bought for you and finding arties in treasure hunts. The only arties I have that I bought with purchased credits (if I remember right) are my diadem and buckawns.

Unless you meant what arties to buy for what class. I can do that.

Edit: I also have to have a chapter for just not fighting someone you don't think you can beat, too. That is very manly.

Caladbolg

Eld said:

Clotting under impaleslash is 60+maxmana/30 mana/clot. I thought that was an increase (double?) on the base cost as well, but it looks like it's 60 per normally. Was base clotting cost changed relatively recently, or did I just have it wrong?

This is an old post kinda. but I'm wondering if I did this right.

Maxhealth = 3258
60+3258/30 = 108.6+60=168.6 Mana per clot?

Assuming that's correct then
3258/168.6 = 19 rounded and 19x20 = 380 So with 3258 max mana they can clot 19 times for 380 bleed total before being at 0 mana correct?

Xith

Zeon said:

@Cooper lets collaborate on a written piece, The Art of Manly PK. You cover the chapters on buying arties and doesn't afraid of anything. I'll cover the chapters on always killing someone if you have a chance and not hesitating to change class if you realize there is a mechanic you can take advantage of.

You can call the chapter on jesters "Sissy Girly Backflippers".

Eld

Caladbolg said:

Eld said:

Clotting under impaleslash is 60+maxmana/30 mana/clot. I thought that was an increase (double?) on the base cost as well, but it looks like it's 60 per normally. Was base clotting cost changed relatively recently, or did I just have it wrong?

This is an old post kinda. but I'm wondering if I did this right.

Maxhealth = 3258
60+3258/30 = 108.6+60=168.6 Mana per clot?

Assuming that's correct then
3258/168.6 = 19 rounded and 19x20 = 380 So with 3258 max mana they can clot 19 times for 380 bleed total before being at 0 mana correct?

I'd say 400 bleed. The mana will round down to 168, 3258/168 = 19.4, so 19 clots won't quite run them out, 20 will. Assuming no sip/moss.

Tesha

How much damage reduction does riding defence give? 

Does it scale with riding?

Are artifact pets good mounts, invincibility aside?

Can you fly with an artifact pet that can fly, without having flying in riding?

Sena

Tesha said:

How much damage reduction does riding defence give?

None, it gives dodging.

Tesha said:

Does it scale with riding?

The dodging does (the equivalent of +1 dexterity when you first learn defence, +4 dexterity at trans), as well as with the level of your mount (you probably won't find higher than about +4 dexterity).

Tesha said:

Are artifact pets good mounts, invincibility aside?

They're pretty low level, so they don't give much dodging (you'll still have the +4 from riding, but very little beyond that, so a non-pet could give almost twice as much) and aren't good at trampling (though with limbcrusher you can still break 4 limbs, if you don't mind losing even more of the dodging bonus). But the invincibility is a big deal, it probably makes up for the disadvantages.

Tesha said:

Can you fly with an artifact pet that can fly, without having flying in riding?

I'm not sure. It's worth transing riding anyways though.

Tesha

Thank you!! I am thinking about getting a pet so having all of this to consider really helps in the decision. Is there anything else I should know about riding/pet mounts?

Mishgul

no you need spur in riding to fly with any mount at all

Tesha

If the difference from fabled to transcendant avoidance was 5% more reduction in damage (926 damage to 884 damage), is it safe to assume going from fabled to transcendant weaponry would be a 5% increase in damage, to-hit and speed (since weaponry gives 10% bonus to all of those, so I am told)?

Eld

Tesha said:

If the difference from fabled to transcendant avoidance was 5% more reduction in damage (926 damage to 884 damage), is it safe to assume going from fabled to transcendant weaponry would be a 5% increase in damage, to-hit and speed (since weaponry gives 10% bonus to all of those, so I am told)?

I don't know exactly how weaponry works, but I don't think it's a straight percentage increase to effective stats. In any case, if you're already trans chivalry, you'll only get 10% of the effect you would otherwise get from weaponry. More generally, if you have both chivalry and weaponry, you get the full effect of the one you have a higher skill level in, and 10% of the other. Maybe that's the 10% you were thinking of for weaponry?

Sidonia

Afaik avoidance is more than 10% reduction in damage, something like 13%ish, so assuming they both give their benefits proportionally, weaponry would give less increase (compared to avoidance decrease) for the same lesson investment.

edit: I forgot it's not a straight 10% increase to speed/damage etc, but rather 10% of what trans chivalry (or whatever you have higher) gives.

Tesha

Ergh math. I have no idea. I just see this in help weaponry: 

Proficiency and Weaponry skill also contribute to your effectiveness. Higher

Weaponry results in an across-the-board increase (damage, fewer misses, quicker

balance recovery).

and got told it was 10%, I think by Cooper?? It is hard to remember, it was like two months ago.

Eld

Tesha said:

Ergh math. I have no idea. I just see this in help weaponry: 

Proficiency and Weaponry skill also contribute to your effectiveness. Higher

Weaponry results in an across-the-board increase (damage, fewer misses, quicker

balance recovery).

and got told it was 10%, I think by Cooper?? It is hard to remember, it was like two months ago.

Well, I guess that if Chivalry and Weaponry have the same effect at trans, then transcending Weaponry on top of Chivalry would be a 10% bonus. It also depends on whether the effect is based on skill rank, or on lessons. With avoidance, I think it's lesson based, but not sure if weaponry is the same or not.

And as Sidonia says, Avoidance is a bit more than 10% (~12.5, I think).

Antonius

@Tesha: It's never safe to assume anything.

Chivalry and Weaponry have the same effect at Transcendent. If you have lessons spent in both, you get 100% of the greater and 10% of the lesser; being Transcendent in both is equivalent to 110% of being Transcendent in one and Inept in the other.

In terms of the percentage increase going from Inept to Transcendent in one or the other, I don't know exact figures but 10% seems extremely low.

Sena

Weaponry/chivalry don't give a percentage bonus to damage/speed/accuracy (well, maybe accuracy, since I don't know much about how it works). Like Eld said, I think the confusion is coming from the fact that knights get the full bonus from one skill and 10% of the bonus from the other.

Going from inept to trans will reduce your weapon balance by 1 second. It's just a flat balance reduction, linearly based on lessons spent (so if you're at 868 lessons, you'll have about 0.5s faster balance). With both weaponry and chivalry transed, that extra 10% means you'll get an extra 0.1s faster balance.

Damage against denizens is also a flat amount added based on skill level. Going from inept to trans will increase the damage per weapon attack by 80 (so it will be 20+DamageStat at inept, 100+DamageStat at trans). This bonus is capped at around 1333 lessons though. So knights don't get any additional bonus in this case by having both skills, and going from mythical to trans won't further increase your damage against denizens.

Damage against players is more complicated. There are two parts to the damage, the flat part (reduced by armour, doesn't depend on max health) and the proportional part (not reduced by armour, a percentage of max health). Skill level plays a part in determining both of these, as does weapon damage. For example, a weapon might do 500 + MaxHealth*6% at trans weaponry and only 100 + MaxHealth*2% at inept (these numbers are completely made up, I'm not sure how much of an effect skill level has). I'm not sure if this is capped somewhere below trans, or if knights get any additional benefit from having both skills.

Tesha

Oh, so it seems like I would only get a very tiny bonus, it does not really sound worth another 700 lessons. Thank you a lot for clearing this up, I appreciate it!

Antonius

@Tesha: If you don't already have it, Shatter is probably worth however many lessons it takes to get; I seem to recall it coming at Mythical, but it's possible I'm misremembering or it's changed. Forging an awesome flail to shatter with is absurdly easy, too.

Tesha

Hm I am not really sure where I would fit shatter into my offense, I would have to think about that. It is certainly something to consider though, thank you!

Caladbolg

Tesha said:

Hm I am not really sure where I would fit shatter into my offense, I would have to think about that. It is certainly something to consider though, thank you!

It's -extremely- easy to mangle 4 limbs with shatter once you've got them prone and broken two.. Well on most people, I've only really seen Ayoxele do it but hey it works for him.

Mangling both legs before I impale and start my combo doesn't seem to give me any extra time before they stand.. if it does then it's not noticeable.

Caladbolg

How much does Strength deminish past 12? Is it a % base or is it based on the skill that uses the strength?

Eld

Caladbolg said:

How much does Strength deminish past 12? Is it a % base or is it based on the skill that uses the strength?

Sena said:

For a rough estimate of how much of a damage bonus you get based on your str/int:
13: 6.54%
14: 12.20%
15: 17.57%
16: 22.77%
17: 27.83%
18: 32.80%
19: 37.68%
20: 42.49%
21: 47.24%
22: 51.94%
23: 56.59%
24: 61.20%
25: 65.77%

This isn't perfectly accurate, but should be close. Also, this seems to be the most common formula, used for most attacks I know of (weapon attacks, drawslash, newbie punch/kick/headslam, staffcast, firelash), but some (such as Tekura, I think) are different. This is added to other damage bonuses. So with 14 str and a Scimitar of Yen-Sorte, you would have +19.2% damage, or with 16 int and a level 3 collar you'd have +42.77%.

Caladbolg

Eld said:

Caladbolg said:

How much does Strength deminish past 12? Is it a % base or is it based on the skill that uses the strength?

Sena said:

For a rough estimate of how much of a damage bonus you get based on your str/int:
13: 6.54%
14: 12.20%
15: 17.57%
16: 22.77%
17: 27.83%
18: 32.80%
19: 37.68%
20: 42.49%
21: 47.24%
22: 51.94%
23: 56.59%
24: 61.20%
25: 65.77%

This isn't perfectly accurate, but should be close. Also, this seems to be the most common formula, used for most attacks I know of (weapon attacks, drawslash, newbie punch/kick/headslam, staffcast, firelash), but some (such as Tekura, I think) are different. This is added to other damage bonuses. So with 14 str and a Scimitar of Yen-Sorte, you would have +19.2% damage, or with 16 int and a level 3 collar you'd have +42.77%.

You might know this better than anyone Does Legslash Compasslash and multislash work like this too? Im considering switching to a strength spec to open up damaging people out as a kill method.

Eld

Caladbolg said:

Eld said:

Caladbolg said:

How much does Strength deminish past 12? Is it a % base or is it based on the skill that uses the strength?

Sena said:

For a rough estimate of how much of a damage bonus you get based on your str/int:
13: 6.54%
14: 12.20%
15: 17.57%
16: 22.77%
17: 27.83%
18: 32.80%
19: 37.68%
20: 42.49%
21: 47.24%
22: 51.94%
23: 56.59%
24: 61.20%
25: 65.77%

This isn't perfectly accurate, but should be close. Also, this seems to be the most common formula, used for most attacks I know of (weapon attacks, drawslash, newbie punch/kick/headslam, staffcast, firelash), but some (such as Tekura, I think) are different. This is added to other damage bonuses. So with 14 str and a Scimitar of Yen-Sorte, you would have +19.2% damage, or with 16 int and a level 3 collar you'd have +42.77%.

You might know this better than anyone Does Legslash Compasslash and multislash work like this too? Im considering switching to a strength spec to open up damaging people out as a kill method.

I haven't actually tested damage on legslash/compass/multi (or drawslash damage on adventurers for that matter). I'd guess that the scaling with strength is comparable, but that you'll also have a max-health-dependent component to worry about, so the viability of damaging people out will vary from person to person.

Caladbolg

Eld said:

Caladbolg said:

Eld said:

Caladbolg said:

How much does Strength deminish past 12? Is it a % base or is it based on the skill that uses the strength?

Sena said:

For a rough estimate of how much of a damage bonus you get based on your str/int:
13: 6.54%
14: 12.20%
15: 17.57%
16: 22.77%
17: 27.83%
18: 32.80%
19: 37.68%
20: 42.49%
21: 47.24%
22: 51.94%
23: 56.59%
24: 61.20%
25: 65.77%

This isn't perfectly accurate, but should be close. Also, this seems to be the most common formula, used for most attacks I know of (weapon attacks, drawslash, newbie punch/kick/headslam, staffcast, firelash), but some (such as Tekura, I think) are different. This is added to other damage bonuses. So with 14 str and a Scimitar of Yen-Sorte, you would have +19.2% damage, or with 16 int and a level 3 collar you'd have +42.77%.

You might know this better than anyone Does Legslash Compasslash and multislash work like this too? Im considering switching to a strength spec to open up damaging people out as a kill method.

I haven't actually tested damage on legslash/compass/multi (or drawslash damage on adventurers for that matter). I'd guess that the scaling with strength is comparable, but that you'll also have a max-health-dependent component to worry about, so the viability of damaging people out will vary from person to person.

Going from 12-14 strength seemed to add 70 damage to Pommel and Sternum, however I figured out afterwards Sternum's damage isn't effected by stance.

Eld

From one test, on someone with ~3k health, Sena's formula is about right at least for going from 12 to 13 strength. Compass and untargeted drawslash do about the same damage (compass greater by ~1%), legslash about 10% more, pommelstrike about 3.5% less, and multislash seems to be the same as 3 compasses.

Hhaos

Eld said:

From one test, on someone with ~3k health, Sena's formula is about right at least for going from 12 to 13 strength. Compass and untargeted drawslash do about the same damage (compass greater by ~1%), legslash about 10% more, pommelstrike about 3.5% less, and multislash seems to be the same as 3 compasses.

Well I know from experience that @Dorn was able to damage me out when we we're first starting to grasp things and the extra damage can't hurt in any scenario.

Caladbolg

Hhaos said:

From one test, on someone with ~3k health, Sena's formula is about right at least for going from 12 to 13 strength. Compass and untargeted drawslash do about the same damage (compass greater by ~1%), legslash about 10% more, pommelstrike about 3.5% less, and multislash seems to be the same as 3 compasses.

Well I know from experience that @Dorn was able to damage me out when we we're first starting to grasp things and the extra damage can't hurt in any scenario.

The strength bonus also increases the bleeding the slashes do.

Caladbolg

Also for the above incase anyone was wondering looks like going from 12 to 16 strength took me from about 530 damage a slash to 680 damage a slash. On Payne with his about 3300 life and Occultist defenses/armor.