Quick Combat Questions

Vaehl

Nellaundra said:

So, this is a somewhat random question.

How do you make Achaean combat fun again?  I mean, the first few times were just so damn exhilarating and I got the "combat shakes" for quite a while during my first matches.  But lately, I just can't be arsed to really fight like I used to.  It's rather uninteresting, I just watch the spam go by, do my setups and switch around a bit if need be and then I win or lose.  There's no more tension, there's no more excitement.  It's just boring like bashing is.

Switch class if the advice given by Cooper doesn't help and you're really bored. Try affliction combat. Can get really fast paced and isn't mash buttons till prep then do some generic combo.

Caladbolg

Vaehl said:

So, this is a somewhat random question.

How do you make Achaean combat fun again?  I mean, the first few times were just so damn exhilarating and I got the "combat shakes" for quite a while during my first matches.  But lately, I just can't be arsed to really fight like I used to.  It's rather uninteresting, I just watch the spam go by, do my setups and switch around a bit if need be and then I win or lose.  There's no more tension, there's no more excitement.  It's just boring like bashing is.

Switch class if the advice given by Cooper doesn't help and you're really bored. Try affliction combat. Can get really fast paced and isn't mash buttons till prep then do some generic combo.

Switch classes. This causes some problems though if your in a house as you get limited to what classes you can switch too and most of the ones you can change too are the same setup 1v1 more or less.

Nellaundra

I've been multiple classes at this point.  Monk, Serpent (oh god no) BM and now Paladin.  I had the most fun as a Monk, really, but I got kinda bored of mostly the same setup with adjustments for Tekura inaccuracy.

Caladbolg

Nellaundra said:

I've been multiple classes at this point.  Monk, Serpent (oh god no) BM and now Paladin.  I had the most fun as a Monk, really, but I got kinda bored of mostly the same setup with adjustments for Tekura inaccuracy.

I've been alot of classes. The class's ive found the most fun are Bm,Monk,Shaman,Apostate, Jester's kinda meh.Serpent is amazingly fun but combat is like prying your fingernails off.

Looks like you've not tried any affliction classes besides Serpent. Try playing a Shaman or to make the game even more intresting try switching cities and Apostate.

Affliction combat can get to be alot more fun it's more of a math problem because your not just playing against the person your playing against the system and the person. Although it's harder.

---
Also on this note consider trying to group combat more. It gets more intresting when you have a set person or more that you can setup your skills to go together with. Im currently considering switching classes to be better at 2v2 combat mostly because Bm has gone back to it's old boring self.

Garao

Mickey is pretty useless unless they're already in aeon. It doesn't steal herb balance, so they could eat the mickey and then just instantly repeat what it was they were trying to cure. It sometimes give nausea, which won't be cured before asthma or paralysis.

Caladbolg

How to deal with Curare/Prefarar

I can't handle the damage I can't really do anything besides run. I was using voidfist paralyse to negate the damage but if it fails then I pretty much die.

This is with me in Mir stance and Horkval with a level 2 sip ring and 4814 max life.

Garao

Hamstring, evade/icewall. Lol.

Xith

Zeon said:

I'm not going to list any kill tactics on forums because there aren't any currently in use. To reveal them would be unfair to any jesters in game. 

I appreciate the thought, but I'll indulge a few concepts here. (going to post a comprehensive guide to jester at some point soon)

@Daeir

A few things:

1) Parts of jester can be considered overpowered. (these are the things you'll hear non-jesters talk about)

2) A number of jester things are broken/unusable. (these are things jesters will talk about)

3) There is supposedly a large jester overhaul (among other classes) in the works. So things could change a little.

Primary kill method is the unstoppable one: slowlock. lvl 3 concussion + aeon at a minimum. Against a majority of people, curing system or not, this can keep the target occupied for the 8/12 seconds needed for Death/Jitb.

But surviving to that many fashions isn't always possible, so the secondary method is minimal prep/hindering that makes a jitb possible. Tower + peels + certain bomb combos might get you that kill.

About sticking aeon: it is possible, but you do need daggers/axes. Trans weaponry is advised for accuracy.

Mickey is broken. It does not consume herb balance so it will not slow someone down outside aeon, and inside aeon it will slow them only for 1 second or so until they can do another cure (can't remember sluggish delay time). It takes 2-3 seconds to slip another mickey, so if you do the math, using it again after aeon is no use. Best application is your initial assault or to support other classes.

The affliction it adds is nausea. Jesters don't use ginseng affs otherwise, but the vomiting attacks do damage and throw off eq/bal or something. You'll only see that happen after several seconds of keeping them trapped under aeon with daggers if you're able. But still limited application.

Puppet bleed: This one is possible. Incredibly easy against people without clotting, but even with it, the amount of bleeding puppet bleed does will make them clot all their mana away first and then bleed out anyway. Combine with stars/chokes/stuff to be really mean, and just burn through about 30 fashions with puppet bleed.

At higher tiers it's occasionally possible, but you have to compound the bleeding with puppet puncture. If they have torso damage bleeding increases more. Tricky stuff but it's a satisfying kill if you ever get it to work.

On the other hand, it's also considered a bit cheap, so if you have dignity...

Caladbolg

Garao said:

Hamstring, evade/icewall. Lol.

Well I mean to be fair I can highleap evade and run ect ect but this is getting to the point I can't prep people because of all the damage.

Xer

Be a coward like me and run all the time >.> And then waste all of it because of mounts/arena <.<

Also, bleed really shouldn't be able to kill anyone who pays attention and moves, and if someone tries what I've been taught is as the "standard" slowlock, it'll almost certainly fail against anyone high-tier. Just look at the times and what you have to do and it's laughably easily to get out of, compared to the amount of work that went into getting all of the fashions - so I wouldn't call it an "unstoppable" kill strategy as is - in fact, I'm fairly certain you can cure out of the slow under concussion before you even regain balance back from slow for the most part. There are variations I can think of that guarantee more usage, but also require even further fashions to pull off.

Garao

Slow lock on its own is laughably easy to escape from, but there are various ways to make it less easy to read and more likely to succeed. Shaman is a bit different than jester in execution though. In the end it relies on how creative you are with your offence, unfortunately these are few and far between in terms of jester
Bleed is good for killing low mana targets or people without clot. Bleed is worldwide so I dunno wat you mean by people moving to avoid it. Also nausea does not throw off bal, that's epilepsy

Xer

Oops, move didn't make any sense in the context of bleed, yes. I was thinking of something else at the same time while writing out that post. There are a lot of things to make the standard slowlock superior - no doubt about that. Lots of little creative things that can make it a lot better - but I'll leave that out for people to think about. There's a few obvious ways to make it better, but I'm sure there are more that I haven't thought of yet. 

If you don't have clot in bleeding, there are just some classes you shouldn't fight - it's pretty much a requisite skill against someone like say, a Blademaster. But if they have clotting, with level 2 torso damage, it still shouldn't be enough to kill anyone at mid-tier or above. There are a lot of other interesting things I can think of for Jester that aren't those ways to kill though - they do have a number of ways to kill people

Cooper

My alt is a Jester, but I don't even bother fighting 1v1 on him. I don't find the whole having to run out of the room and be a little girl when you fight fun. When I fight 1v1 I very rarely use kai heal (unless it's someone at Cain's artie level, and even then I try not to use it), run out of the room, don't tumble behind an icewall onto a monolith, etc. It makes it more fun for me.

I couldn't imagine fighting like Santar or Rean (I'd throw Xer in there too, but only had one fighting experience with him, but he ran through multiple rooms with ground runes every time I hit him). That would not be fun for me at all.

Mizik

Nellaundra said:

So, this is a somewhat random question.

How do you make Achaean combat fun again?  I mean, the first few times were just so damn exhilarating and I got the "combat shakes" for quite a while during my first matches.  But lately, I just can't be arsed to really fight like I used to.  It's rather uninteresting, I just watch the spam go by, do my setups and switch around a bit if need be and then I win or lose.  There's no more tension, there's no more excitement.  It's just boring like bashing is.

You have to care about winning.

Then switch class. Preferably retire from one once you feel like you've mastered yours. They're all very different.

Mizik

Cooper said:

My alt is a Jester, but I don't even bother fighting 1v1 on him. I don't find the whole having to run out of the room and be a little girl when you fight fun. When I fight 1v1 I very rarely use kai heal (unless it's someone at Cain's artie level, and even then I try not to use it), run out of the room, don't tumble behind an icewall onto a monolith, etc. It makes it more fun for me.

I couldn't imagine fighting like Santar or Rean (I'd throw Xer in there too, but only had one fighting experience with him, but he ran through multiple rooms with ground runes every time I hit him). That would not be fun for me at all.

Santar, Tirac, Tesha, Kalvon.

Though the latter three's utilization of multiple Piety/Gravehands grids and running around seemingly randomly is what really takes the fun out of fights.

Zeon

Never found kalvon to do that very often. Saneanrac on the other hand!

Cooper

I do understand why they fight like that, though. Winning is the most important thing to them - that's what makes it fun. I have fun when I can be useful to a group or survive a fight that I know others would have (ty artefacts) without being a little bitch about it.

<_<

Caladbolg

Cooper said:

I do understand why they fight like that, though. Winning is the most important thing to them - that's what makes it fun. I have fun when I can be useful to a group or survive a fight that I know others would have (ty artefacts) without being a little bitch about it.

<_<

To be fair if you don't run from a blademaster your pretty much boned.

Cooper

My arties + cripple + batter + disrupt let me survive unbanded BMs. Level 3 bands give me quite a bit of trouble though.

Tesha

Sorry @Mizik but there is literally no other way I can survive against you other than running on impaleslash / low mana. When I break you for disembowel, there is always a shot you are going to survive and the same situation for damnation. If you get a doublebreak with impaleslash, there is no if/and/maybe, I am dead and there are literally no other options. I dislike running that much but you prep me so much faster than I can dream of prepping you, and if I want to even try to go through with even one attempt at a kill, there is no other choice. If there is something I am missing I would love to hear it, but from my perspective it is run a lot or die in 25 seconds flat like I did in our last spar.

@Cooper winning is not the most important thing to me, but I do not want to die in 25 seconds either. I had a lot of fun against Narcos and lost the fight to a good strategy, but it is really frustrating that the only option I have against blademasters is run on impaleslash. It lasts really long and its effect is astounding. I wish I had an alternative but I have not been able to come up with anything. I actually try to avoid fighting blademasters because of this. (to be more specific, I avoid fighting them because I do not like running a lot and I also do not like the resulting trash talk, it is just too stressful and I would rather avoid it altogether. I likely need thicker skin but blademasters are just not very fun to fight because of it.)

Eld

Has anyone done any serious testing of accuracy of the various Two Arts stances? I know Thyr is good, and Arash seems to be worse than the rest, but I've never really tried to quantify any of them, and never really checked Sanya or Doya to speak of.

Zeon

Mir is pretty bad if they have high dodging, but i have no band either.

Eld

Yeah, it is, especially if mounted. Don't think band affects accuracy, though.

Xith

Well I'm always torn too. Because yeah I can survive, my class is meant to be survivable, but of course when they can do little to fully pin me down and I end up with the fashions to win it, they just bitch a lot afterward about how I run.

Unfortunately the class is built to either hinder or run away. So I try to focus on tanking what I can and then hindering, rather than tank, then run.

Additionally there are a few skills that are designed to be used out of the room or to leave the room. Juggling, some puppetry, handsprings, creator (if you're into that).

Caladbolg

Eld said:

Yeah, it is, especially if mounted. Don't think band affects accuracy, though.

Band doesn't last time I did a test of accuracy Doya and Thyr were the only ones that boosted accuracy. Although last time I tested stances Compasslash did more limb damage then legslashes too so.

Alcinae

Question: Does vodun throttle only do damage, or is there another effect to the attack? I don't have the ability yet, but I'm just wondering how useful it is....

Shunsui

It's basically kai choke with a doll/puppet. Local area asphyxiation damage.

Ada

Does damage from vibes set of kai deliverance?

Xith

Alcinae said:

Question: Does vodun throttle only do damage, or is there another effect to the attack? I don't have the ability yet, but I'm just wondering how useful it is....

It's slightly underpowered. No use except in 1v1, and even then limited. Requires 20 fashions, uses 6. The balance is not terribly fast. From my experience does about 1000 per choke, but so slow and costly that you can't kill with it alone. Have to add star/thurisaz and things.

Garao

The only use I found with throttle is in conjuction with puppet bleed to try and make them sip health instead of mana and throw them off sip bal for 5 seconds, but it's still not a very effective ability with such a steep fashion cost.