Quick Combat Questions

Kaden

Ada said:

Does damage from vibes set of kai deliverance?

Pretty sure it doesn't. I remember instances when a monk was being hit with vibes without setting of deliverance but that may be because I was using a vibestack that didn't include energise and palpitate. It had the one that drained mana, though. But it's always good to test and be sure!

Trevize

Kaden said:

Ada said:

Does damage from vibes set of kai deliverance?

Pretty sure it doesn't. I remember instances when a monk was being hit with vibes without setting of deliverance but that may be because I was using a vibestack that didn't include energise and palpitate. It had the one that drained mana, though. But it's always good to test and be sure!

We'd hear constant whining if that was the case, I think.

Vadimuses

I think the hailstorm active skill does set off deliverance, though.

Xith

It does. And apparently so does deepfreeze (per recent log). I don't think enemy skills should hit deliverance.

Garao

I dunno if it's that it's enemy it's just that it's direct and not passive which makes sense and thus yes hugalaz/hail is odd. I don't know what the thought process behind it is

Xith

That's true. But only the initial casting of hailstorm is direct. If deliv comes up after and kills, that's a problem.

Mizik

Vibes no. Hail yes. Thurisaz/Meteors/Hail yes. Breathstorm no. Harmonics no. Rites no. Ents no. Shatter yes.

Some instant kills no.

Which, I dunno.

Mizik

Choke, Tele no. Handaxe/thrown weapons yes. Trample yes. Deepfreeze yes. Arc yes. Rays... I dunno. Inferno yes. Old trip no, new trip yes. Thornspray I assume so, but not sure. Leprosy no. Mid impale damage tick yes. Annihilate/Blizzard/Thunderstorm I dunno. Stormhammer secondary, tertiary dunno, assume so. Engage no.

Xith

Timed and insta shouldn't hit it. Cause deliv is an instant itself, but if you can prep them for cath/vivi/aur/tzantza while they have deliv up, I think you deserve to take that shot. And behead/jitb/death/elim/etc have considerable timing added to them, so should convince the person to drop deliverance.

And did you mean in-room meteors only?

Might make sense, since throwing a voyria/shyness dagger or something in the room should trigger it, but not a dagger from adjacent.

Aktillum

Talk to me IG before you get us SVO nerfed.

oh nvm I'm late to the convo.

Eld

Mizik said:

Vibes no. Hail yes. Thurisaz/Meteors/Hail yes. Breathstorm no. Harmonics no. Rites no. Ents no. Shatter yes. Some instant kills no. Which, I dunno.

Deathstrike at least ignores deliverance. Dunno about anything else.

Caladbolg

Eld said:

Mizik said:

Vibes no. Hail yes. Thurisaz/Meteors/Hail yes. Breathstorm no. Harmonics no. Rites no. Ents no. Shatter yes. Some instant kills no. Which, I dunno.

Deathstrike at least ignores deliverance. Dunno about anything else.

I died to deathstriking a monk before.

Vadimuses

You always have the option of moving out of the room and shooting as well.

Ada

Thank you for all the answers! ;;)

Kaden

Personally, I unenemy when I see deliverance go up. It keeps me from accidentally killing myself by hitting deepfreeze or something. Just enemy again immediately, so they get affected by vibes again.

Mishgul

You can trans curses and get cheap kills against midbies. Need at least vodun mangle to do well otherwise. Shamans in melee withs monks serps or apos are devestating.

Garao

and knights*

Alcinae

As a shaman who isn't tri-trans (or even trans Curses for that matter!) spars are consistently hard  since I don't really have an offense I can work with and I tend to run away a lot. And yeah, spars against serpents just ended up painful for me, they're extremely quick and efficient!

Garao

He didn't mean against but with in a melee. Curses are essentially loki/invisible and you can deliver enough affs between shaman+apo/knight/serp to make it practically impossible to avoid a lock.

Garao

Daeir said:

Mishgul said:

You can trans curses and get cheap kills against midbies. Need at least vodun mangle to do well otherwise. Shamans in melee withs monks serps or apos are devestating.

How relevant is Runelore to their offense? Can you get by solely on curses+vodun?

Yes you can. Runelore is just to help offset their lack of hindering/tankiness. It can be pretty difficult to survive as a shaman without jera/algiz and gular with wunjo/nairat's around you while you're building up enough fashions to make yourself more defensively capable withouthaving to run around everywhere. For your offence, you don't even ever need to use runelore.

Though totem can be of a significant help against your careless zergers but it's definitely not necessary. 

Mishgul

Not lock. For example you can pretty much jut have a monk mind batter after you curse impatience and tzantza someone. Apostate and Serp are good for a quick tzantza too

Xer

To kill, you just need mostly Curses and Vodun's in spars. To actually survive, runes + Wunjo/Nairat are incredible, but not necessary.

Garao

I think there's an echo in here...

Garao

Generally as a shaman there are a few main strategies (ways to reach them are variable, of course). 

These are: 

- Slow lock. (Aeon, Concussion, optional: kalmia/gecko)

- Salve lock (Impatience/Anorexia off salve balance, and then gecko/asthma/paralysisOrBrokenarms before they recover salve bal)

- Straight curses if not impatience prio: sticking enough blighted mental affs underneath cursed paralysis. 

- Forced restore on confusion (4 crippled limbs, confusion. Then just force a restore) and then behead.

There are several ways to reach these outcomes, of course. If you need elaboration, just ask for a few more specifics I guess, and you can also PM me if you want detailed stuff ... Hope that helps. 

NOT AMNESIA THOUGH JESUS

Xer

Any kind of hindering you can do as a Shaman without using up doll fashions in the first place is fairly limited if they have decent curing - you would be better off fashioning and running, or using ground runes/walls and tumble to avoid sticky situations. There are a few blights you can do to slow them down if they don't catch it but most will find out what goes wrong fairy quickly. It's a *lot* of running and fashioning if you want a hope at winning - I really can't think of a way around that for most opponents without artefacts. If you don't like that, another class might be better off for you - just a heads up on that.

EDIT: Keep in mind that fashion balance is roughly two seconds, and swiftcurses are 1 second, and curses without swiftcurse are 2 seconds. Even after you set up some curses, if you don't capitalise on it immediately, instead of doing something like fashioning, they'll cure out of it fairly quickly. Softlocks are harder to set up because you can't curse slickness, so you have to throw an axe or use Vodun Imbibe... which requires a doll in the first place. In my experience, it's not worth trying to go for a lock until you're fully prepared to do so - otherwise, it just wastes wp and time

Zeon

I had no problem just straight up truelocking people as a shaman with only curses and thrown handaxes. I rarely had to run away either since people would just get locked if they stayed in the room long enough.

Garao

Only possible on an asthma > para/impatience prio afaik

Xer

You should still be able to pull off a straight Tzantza against someone clueless to how Shaman's work, but truelocks with current day Svo default settings are annoyingly difficult to achieve without fashions. Maybe against someone utterly clueless - but you can do that as a Serpent too in that case. Against someone worth fighting once you get past the mechanics of your own offense and skills, that'll likely be the case (I'm thinking Carmain, Iocun etc. - people who won't roll over and die >.>)

Xaufin

I need tips for people who shield on daegger hunt. The best I have done is to stick confusion before they shield so I can hammer and rehunt before their eq is back.

I also thought of shadowstriking and counting on nightmare to give the slickness, but I don't know how often mare gives it.

Garao

Just don't rely on locking someone as Apo (especially with hunt), you have other methods of killing your opponent. Honestly apo is way more difficult than people give it credit for - it lost a lot thanks to traits/specs. 

Don't neglect ANY of your abilities, that's the key to succeeding as apo. Take another look through and remember you have 3 insta kills. Kinda difficult to give any more advice without knowing where you're actually at right now. You're Mhaldorian, right? Seek out Ayoxele and Carmain, and just spar A LOT.