This war

Reyson

Now that you mention it, a system like Bicentennial wouldn't be bad. Cities score based on categories, so that individual contests don't count towards the point total, unless the City wins the category. Duels, tanks, skirmishes, Nish battles, naval battles, all contribute, just like riddles, twins, tumblerace, etc. etc. all contribute.

Can have more frequent events of each that way, with more variety, without each being such a huge deal, incentivizing people to play more.

Ysela

Out of curiousity and as someone with no experience of naval combat, why was the naval battle a 1v1? I had assumed it would be as many ships as possible, that inexperienced captain sailing off in the wrong direction and accidentally spawning a sea monster, someone getting lost eternally at sea, etc.

Alrena

Ysela said:

Out of curiousity and as someone with no experience of naval combat, why was the naval battle a 1v1? I had assumed it would be as many ships as possible, that inexperienced captain sailing off in the wrong direction and accidentally spawning a sea monster, someone getting lost eternally at sea, etc.

Well numbers are one of the biggest factors in naval combat. For example we've beaten two striders with a single ship purely because we had 4 competent people on board, versus 3 spread over the two ships coming against us. Not limiting how many ships or crew you can bring would turn it into chaos. Although admittedly that might be incredibly fun too.

Next time it's going to be 2 striders vs 2 striders though, and hopefully we'll put up a better fight then. We sure learned a lot from the galley v galley though, but it's also not something I'd personally want to repeat, I think there's more flexibility involved in multiple ships going against each other with limited numbers on board.

Mathilda

The real reason Targossas won the naval battle was because we had uniforms:

 a white sailor's cap

This simple sailor's cap of folded wool felt has been bleached bright white. A short brim around the edge helps keep any potential mariner's eyes clear of the sun or any hazards.

 a midshipman's striped shirt

Made of fine Shastaan cotton, this shirt has broad horizontal stripes of alternating white and indigo. Careful black stiching renders the outline of the isles of Targossas over the left breast.

 an indigo naval skirt

This skirt is made of fine Shastaan cotton, dyed a bright indigo, and cut to knee length. A white strip has been sewn to run top to bottom on each side.

 sturdy naval boots

A faded pair of leather boots shows prominent signs of wear and tear. Despite being covered with grey dust and grass stains, the high quality leather remains soft and supple. The many little scratches on the weathered surface of the leather tell tales of adventure, harsh terrain, and extreme temperatures. These boots are extremely lightweight and very sturdy.

  

Xaden

Mathilda said:

The real reason Targossas won the naval battle was because we had uniforms:

 a white sailor's cap

This simple sailor's cap of folded wool felt has been bleached bright white. A short brim around the edge helps keep any potential mariner's eyes clear of the sun or any hazards.

 a midshipman's striped shirt

Made of fine Shastaan cotton, this shirt has broad horizontal stripes of alternating white and indigo. Careful black stiching renders the outline of the isles of Targossas over the left breast.

 an indigo naval skirt

This skirt is made of fine Shastaan cotton, dyed a bright indigo, and cut to knee length. A white strip has been sewn to run top to bottom on each side.

 sturdy naval boots

A faded pair of leather boots shows prominent signs of wear and tear. Despite being covered with grey dust and grass stains, the high quality leather remains soft and supple. The many little scratches on the weathered surface of the leather tell tales of adventure, harsh terrain, and extreme temperatures. These boots are extremely lightweight and very sturdy.

  

Great. Now I'm picturing @Greys in a skirt.

Thanks. For. That.

Synbios

Xaden said:

Great. Now I'm picturing @Greys in a skirt.

Thanks. For. That.

Behold: the Targossian Navy in uniform!



Now animated, as they prepare for the Naval portion of the war:

Sauce: Binbougami Ga!

Torinn

You're just jealous. We were faaaabulous

Mathilda

There's a trousers design for those who wanted that instead of a skirt, and then there were different shirt designs based on navy rank (mine was midshipman).

Deucalion

I want to take a few moments to comment on the war and the decision to nullify the RP arrangement between the gods. 

Firstly, I want to say kudos to all involved for trying something new and trying to find a way to make the current war system work via pre-arranged terms and what not. I know it's a lot of work to do and you are never going to make everyone happy. Absolutely look forward to seeing what comes in the future from the lessons learned from this first foray. Great work.

We decided to remove the heavy RP consequences/benefits for winning or losing because, in the end, this ended up being a very OOC flavoured conflict. People were doing things that made 100% sense from a strategy standpoint but really were not in line with what would make sense from an IC standpoint and, in the end, we are here to try to move the story forward ICly. For Mhaldor and Targossas in particular, it's a difficult style to play and hold true to, so we like to jump in where we can to validate and reward the dedication to it. In this situation, it just felt like we were going to major IC consequences for something that has not had a lot of RP driven decisions tied to it. We understand why there hasn't been but we just didn't feel it was fair in the end.

Absolutely think you all should continue with things as you originally intended and have the much milder consequences/rewards that don't have the god involvement. And hopefully just actually have some fun.

Ankhareoutef

Deucalion said:

I want to take a few moments to comment on the war and the decision to nullify the RP arrangement between the gods. 

Firstly, I want to say kudos to all involved for trying something new and trying to find a way to make the current war system work via pre-arranged terms and what not. I know it's a lot of work to do and you are never going to make everyone happy. Absolutely look forward to seeing what comes in the future from the lessons learned from this first foray. Great work.

We decided to remove the heavy RP consequences/benefits for winning or losing because, in the end, this ended up being a very OOC flavoured conflict. People were doing things that made 100% sense from a strategy standpoint but really were not in line with what would make sense from an IC standpoint and, in the end, we are here to try to move the story forward ICly. For Mhaldor and Targossas in particular, it's a difficult style to play and hold true to, so we like to jump in where we can to validate and reward the dedication to it. In this situation, it just felt like we were going to major IC consequences for something that has not had a lot of RP driven decisions tied to it. We understand why there hasn't been but we just didn't feel it was fair in the end.

Absolutely think you all should continue with things as you originally intended and have the much milder consequences/rewards that don't have the god involvement. And hopefully just actually have some fun.

This makes me sad but it feels like a good call

Torinn

Agreed.  I think a bunch of us had stuff planned for win/loss but it is true that our IC actions were not in line with what our characters would do normally in that scenario.  We were playing "optimally" but not playing IC.  

Ailea

For those that missed the conversation that occurred between @Deucalion and @Sartan

Thousands of daemons howl and shriek as Sartan, the Malevolent roars above the cacophony, "What is this nonsense sold to Me as a war? I was promised blood and new slaves! I will have answers, fire sprite!"

 

The firmament burns with white-hot fire as the pure, baritone voice of Deucalion calls out, "Direct Your bluster elsewhere. I have no more liking than You for this...tournament. It appears it was the only way Yours would take the field."

 

Thousands of daemons howl and shriek as Sartan, the Malevolent roars above the cacophony, "Mine remain upon the field, it was Yours that seemed to find some courage from My Truths. I am disappointed to see that is not the case."

 

The firmament burns with white-hot fire as the pure, baritone voice of Deucalion calls out, "We will never agree on the source of the fault. The result remains."

 

Warlord Morthif Aristata, Domnitor of Warfare shouts, "The Aegean Army was expecting more bleeding and less running as well."

 

Thousands of daemons howl and shriek as Sartan, the Malevolent roars above the cacophony, "Agreed. Our bargain was struck with an understanding of an entirely different conflict."

 

Willed by the Malevolent One, a swirling column of daemonites feasts upon Morthif's organs, ripping the flesh from his bones.

Willed by the Malevolent One, a swirling column of daemonites feasts upon Morthif's organs, ripping the flesh from his bones.

Consumed in the raging conflagration of Deucalion's wrath, naught but ashes remain of Morthif.

Thousands of daemons howl and shriek as Sartan, the Malevolent roars above the cacophony, "Silence, mortal."

The firmament burns with white-hot fire as the pure, baritone voice of Deucalion calls out, "Indeed it was. It is certain We will not condone the subjugation of two thousand free Targossians due to the outcome of this demonstration of risk avoidance."

Thousands of daemons howl and shriek as Sartan, the Malevolent roars above the cacophony, "And I'll not agree to allow Your heathen preachers in My streets when Mine so clearly need to be reeducated in My Truths."

The firmament burns with white-hot fire as the pure, baritone voice of Deucalion calls out, "Fine. We are agreed to terminate Our agreement then?"

Thousands of daemons howl and shriek as Sartan, the Malevolent roars above the cacophony, "Consider it forgotten."

The firmament burns with white-hot fire as the pure, baritone voice of Deucalion calls out, "The mortals will keep their terms, no doubt. Such is of no concern to Me."

The firmament burns with white-hot fire as the pure, baritone voice of Deucalion calls out, "What was it? Dancing I believe? Or did You train your slaves to not ask for such trivial things yet?"

Sir Draqoom Van Helsing, Iron Fist shouts, "That it then? War over?"

Consumed in the raging conflagration of Deucalion's wrath, naught but ashes remain of Draqoom.

Consumed in the raging conflagration of Deucalion's wrath, naught but ashes remain of Draqoom.

Draqoom's life has been sacrificed by a manifestation of Evil.

 

Thousands of daemons howl and shriek as Sartan, the Malevolent roars above the cacophony, "There will come the time where You will assist Me without the need for a bargain, Brother."

 

The firmament burns with white-hot fire as the pure, baritone voice of Deucalion calls out, "The time where You assist Me will come first. The Outer Planes await Your blades."

Siduri

I was! Pew pew!

Cooper

Ugh I didn't get too write my scathing post to Mhaldor that was going to get me killed and disfavoured

Talamond

Deucalion said:
Stuff.

And here I had this sinister plot to get 2000 mimics into Mhaldor if we lost.

Zackery

Major thank you to @Deucalion, @Sartan, @Farrah, @Atalkez, @Proficy, @Nyderrasethi, and everyone who has put so much effort into this war. It's been a lot of fun, and I'm looking forward to keeping the conflict up! And not having to raid an empty city / evacuate ours anymore in the process

Skye

Glad that to get some admin input on this. From a third party who shares clans with both sides of the conflict, I strongly suspect that 'heavy RP consequence' is actually only a fraction of what drove the bizarre behaviour of all players involved.

The bulk of it would simply be that nobody wants to lose, period. When every single engagement affects the score, it tends to make people become reluctant to participate and go out of their way to minimise losses. This is the same logic behind forestals losing their mind over extermination: even a single room exterminated is considered a 'loss'.

Hopefully future attempts at war will involve more 'evented' engagements like the naval and nish battles instead of putting points on the skirmishes.

Still disappointed that we won't get to see the outcome of the Agreement though.

Taryius

Should we ever make an attempt at this kind of war again, something needs to be done to the reliance of raids... The way its currently setup either side could always just deny every opportunity. Deny duels, Deny sanctions.

Krypton

Atalkez said:

No matter the outcome, I gotta say this has been fantastic. Each city is throwing haymakers, and each city is responding really well.

Deucalion said:

You are all forgetting to play this like an IC war, with IC-believable actions. We done here.

/endevent

Mathilda

Damn, now we don't have an excuse to send Beggar Tuck to Mhaldor...

Xaden

Thank you big daddy @Deucalion for providing an OOC explanation when you'd have been well within your rights to leave it at 'you can't even slaughter each other properly, failures' in character.

Won't say I'm not disappointed but it makes complete sense from an RP standpoint.

Ailea

It also makes sense from a roleplaying perspective on Mhaldor's side. 

Kythra

I get why it happened. Thanks D and S for the RP support, it's what made me want to take part and put in the effort despite the stress and OoC hostility and shit. Now I just dont really care, I got a new job, so now I dont have to ask for dates off. I can just go to work, read a public post from either side and laugh at 'bragging' rights.

Thanks to Nyd, Farrah, Aegoth, Atalkez, whoever else for trying.

gl hf in the war guiz.

Jor

Congrats on the new job @Kythra !

Melodie

Yeah, this totally makes 100% sense and I fully understand why it was done, but my motivation to keep warring is pretty substantially lowered. Which, is fine. I'll probably just finally play Abzu and get my schoolwork done early this week, and prep for the naval battle.

Micaelis

This is why we can't have nice things. 

Everyone's already been chill about it, so let me blow my top since no one else wants to, then everyone can rage about it or agree. I don't really care.

What this boils down to, flowery pillow talk aside, is that the playerbase of Achaea (obviously, specifically the two War cities) was literally deemed too incompetent to back the RP justification of a storyline they had planned. That is an absolute travesty.

I'm not going to point fingers at any single individual as that just devolves into a he did/she did/they did it first scenario, but the core results are an embarassment to the game as a whole, as there were actual city leaders, and raid leaders, who were outright refusing to engage in the conflict itself. I think most people are well aware of who did what and when, and it goes for either side, but everyone who refused to participate due to the system should be ashamed of themselves. 

I can name a lot of people who literally just guard-dived/totem-dived in the barest -hope- of the slightest chance at the sniff of a sanction. It's a shame that people of that fortitude and determination are being overseen by, apologies for the anger, outright cowards and special little snowflakes.

Rant over, and I really hope we can iron out some future war ideas to prevent this facade from ever happening again. It was a really good idea that, as per usual, we just managed to completely drive into the ground. Good work @Farrah and crew on the attempt, and I look forward to the next war incarnation!

Alrena

Honestly I'm kinda relieved the stakes were lowered and we can have more casual fun skirmishes. I'll agree that in the next attempt, relying more on preplanned battles could be a lot of fun, though I'd hope at different times of the day! Europeans can't do a Nish battle at 3am! Well, it's not good for us anyway. Even if it's high stakes then, all engagements will have a clear ending and allow some breathing room.

Also yes to Naval battles.

Taryius

What about preplanned raids? Where when the time comes one side immediately gets sanction?

Take turns, one in Mhaldor, one in Targossas.

Micaelis

Alrena said:

Honestly I'm kinda relieved the stakes were lowered and we can have more casual fun skirmishes. I'll agree that in the next attempt, relying more on preplanned battles could be a lot of fun, though I'd hope at different times of the day! Europeans can't do a Nish battle at 3am! Well, it's not good for us anyway. Even if it's high stakes then, all engagements will have a clear ending and allow some breathing room.

Also yes to Naval battles.

Pre-scheduled is probably the only way to go at this point, yeah. Also agree that it's nice to be able to tie in Naval things for once.

Micaelis

Think that sounds good on paper @Taryius, but it's probably a lot of coding and whatnot on the God-end. Makes sense logically, but from a practicality standpoint, it's ridiculous that we'd need to code in hard-set game modes to counteract currently used tactics. But, if it's a necessity, always an option!