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This war

SerinSerin Member Posts: 56 ✭✭ - Stalwart
Last night I almost quit playing for good because of this war.  I have only recently come back to this game after a every long time away and thought things were going to be better.  Found things have either stayed the same or have gotten worse.  

So am I to understand that now that my city is at war I can be PK'd at anytime anywhere by a party?  Even if I am avoiding the war and simply trying to bash?  This is killing me right here.  I have been trying to put time into learning to fight but now every single time I log in I am told to join up with a group and go get murdered.  So I have no chance to hone my skills, no chance to raise my level, and I am dying every time I log in now.  Nothing is fun about this at all.  It seems like a handful of the best players are having a great time and the rest of us are just cannon fodder.  I don't want to quit Mhaldor, my character has been apart of it since the beginning, but the game is currently unplayable for me.  I'm at a loss as of what to do at this point.  I've already invested a good amount of money into the game since returning and feel like I just wasted it.



Any advice would be great, and I mean advice from either side or others.  I don't want this thread turning into a war in itself.


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Comments

  • RyzethRyzeth Member Posts: 1,105 @ - Epic Achaean
    Serin said:

    So am I to understand that now that my city is at war I can be PK'd at anytime anywhere by a party? 
    Normally, the answer would be yes. For this war, the terms specifically said that killing soldiers outside of raids was illegal (terms that were divine-sanctioned). If it is happening, and not a one-off happening, then you should take it up with Morthif; he is the main mediator for it all.
    Prythe
  • SerinSerin Member Posts: 56 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    I was killed inside the city, embraced and went to bash.  Was followed and eventually killed by a group.  So you are saying that is not allowed? 
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,991 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    The answer depends on the specific situation. Soldiers are open to be attacked during raids, even when outside of the city, based on the most recent update to the terms.

    If people are hunting you down out of the blue, with no other fighting going on at that moment, I would suggest sending their name(s) to Atalkez or Farrah. The terms were made very clear before the war started, as were the consequences for anybody who didn't follow them.
    Prythe
  • KeorinKeorin Member Posts: 1,032 @ - Epic Achaean
    I don't entirely recall Mhaldorian law on the subject, but you may be able to quit the army, at least for a time. By the rules of the war, that would make it so you couldn't participate in the raids and stuff (and even if it was a less restricted war, it would make you not free pk). You might still have to defend the city, but you don't lose experience on defense, and it's not like there's constant raid defense, or anything.

    Regardless, though, Mhaldor tends to have a lot of understanding people. If you're really frustrated/not enjoying yourself because of the fighting, open up communication with someone out of character, they'll probably be open to working with you. 

    And worst worse worst case is, this war has a very definitive end point. I think there's plenty of options you may be able to pursue for lessening/removing the impact, but even if none work out, it's not one of these  vague, endless conflicts. It'll get better, hopefully sooner then later!
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaMember Posts: 2,377 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2017
    Serin said:
    So am I to understand that now that my city is at war I can be PK'd at anytime anywhere by a party?
    Yes. War, by Admin definition, in HELP ORG RELATIONS is: "all enlisted city soldiers of two cities at war have a roleplay reason to freely attack one another while the state of war persists."

    The player-made agreement (between Mhaldor & Targ) added this restriction:
    - No attacking soldiers outside of raids, duels, and other skirmishes, unless there is a contract, bounty, or other non-war-related justification
    ... but that requires your would-be attackers to somehow figure out that you were clearly not involved in said raid.


  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaMember Posts: 2,377 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    To add, re:

    1.) All soldiers shall have a 1 minute grace period upon entering realms before
    being attacked by the enemy.

    3.) Any soldier is considered fair game for the duration of the raid, even if
    they leave the city, if they are in the city at the beginning of the raid or
    enter the city during a raid.

    Basically, if you don't want to be hunted down, don't have the misfortunate timing of being in Mhaldor when a group decides to initiate a raid.
  • SerinSerin Member Posts: 56 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Krypton said:
    To add, re:

    1.) All soldiers shall have a 1 minute grace period upon entering realms before
    being attacked by the enemy.

    3.) Any soldier is considered fair game for the duration of the raid, even if
    they leave the city, if they are in the city at the beginning of the raid or
    enter the city during a raid.

    Basically, if you don't want to be hunted down, don't have the misfortunate timing of being in Mhaldor when a group decides to initiate a raid.
    Well this brings up another issue.  I remember back in the day Mhaldor used to punish people who logged in, saw a threat and instantly logged out.  

    But regardless if I only get a few hours a day to play due to work and school and my only solution is to QQ anytime we get raided, it makes the game suck in my opinion.
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaMember Posts: 2,377 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Frankly, if you just avoid being in Mhaldor (and QQing in Mhaldor) whenever you don't want to get dragged into raid business, you should be fine

    ... if people follow their own leaders' agreed-upon rules.
    Kiet
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 5,526 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Antonius said:
    The answer depends on the specific situation. Soldiers are open to be attacked during raids, even when outside of the city, based on the most recent update to the terms.

    If people are hunting you down out of the blue, with no other fighting going on at that moment, I would suggest sending their name(s) to Atalkez or Farrah. The terms were made very clear before the war started, as were the consequences for anybody who didn't follow them.
    It was Farrah who chased this guy out of the city after he logged in inside Mhaldor and was told to leave or he'd die. So they killed him, he embraced and then went to go bash, and after a while they forced him to follow them, brought him inside the city, and killed him again.

    Saibel
  • SerinSerin Member Posts: 56 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    It's not that I don't want to be dragged into it I just need a month or two to get my bearings again.  I think it was just bad timing for me to come back to the game right on the brink of war.  I don't know, last night just really frustrated me.  I am better now that I got a little rant out, I just never expected the war to completely throw out PK rules(or at least feel like it did).
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaMember Posts: 2,377 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2017
    As already stated, War by Admin definition does completely throw out PK rules for soldiers. It's basically a two-year-long Free-PK egghunt for you guys.

    Thanks to some agreed-upon restrictions, though, you have the option to just stay the hell away from the city, because if you are seen in-city even once by the attackers when they're in, they can come after you as they please for the duration of the raid, under the current Terms of War.
    Farrah
  • SerinSerin Member Posts: 56 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    That makes non combative's have no home.  That really sucks.
  • JorJor Member Posts: 17 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited June 2017
    Such is a war. It sucks to come back to, trying to gain a grasp on the game again, sorry Serin.
    Tysandr
  • MathildaMathilda Member Posts: 902 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    On the upside, this war should only last 2 IG years (24 OOC days).

    Regarding noncoms, you could always quit the army for the time being. The war terms are very specific about allowing only soldiers to participate in (and therefore, bear the brunt of) the fighting.
     <3 
  • JorJor Member Posts: 17 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Don't think you can quit the army in Mhaldor
  • SerinSerin Member Posts: 56 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Cooper said:
    Antonius said:
    The answer depends on the specific situation. Soldiers are open to be attacked during raids, even when outside of the city, based on the most recent update to the terms.

    If people are hunting you down out of the blue, with no other fighting going on at that moment, I would suggest sending their name(s) to Atalkez or Farrah. The terms were made very clear before the war started, as were the consequences for anybody who didn't follow them.
    It was Farrah who chased this guy out of the city after he logged in inside Mhaldor and was told to leave or he'd die. So they killed him, he embraced and then went to go bash, and after a while they forced him to follow them, brought him inside the city, and killed him again.
    Yeah, I logged, went to sewers with everyone else, got ganked, killed, embraced, then asked if I should stay out.  Didn't go back to Mhaldor went bashing instead and was hunted down.
  • FarrahFarrah Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 2,621 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2017
    He participated in the defense, as noted above, by going into sewers where the Mhaldor defense group was fighting. It was absolutely in accordance with the rules of war to go after him later (while the raid was still ongoing), as clarified in the public post. I did try to renegotiate the rules so this wouldn't happen, but Mhaldor did not agree to stop their own lame tactics in exchange, which really leaves us with no choice but killing every soldier we're allowed to kill for sanction.

    Sorry that you're not having fun, though.
  • NyderrasethiNyderrasethi Member Posts: 91 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Talk to me in game IC and we can work something out.RP wise though you may have to take an execution for weakness or something but I can work it out. 
  • SobriquetSobriquet Member Posts: 2,539 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    There will always be people that are unable to help themselves to an easy kill, although I think the terms in this war have really tried to curb some of that. Time will tell to see if it works.

    On the flip side this war is pretty much invisible to other cities, as per usual, it seems the two major factions get all the attention.
    image
    Ahmet
  • SerinSerin Member Posts: 56 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Farrah said:
    He participated in the defense, as noted above, by going into sewers where the Mhaldor defense group was fighting. It was absolutely in accordance with the rules of war to go after him later (while the raid was still ongoing), as clarified in the public post. I did try to renegotiate the rules so this wouldn't happen, but Mhaldor did not agree to stop their own lame tactics in exchange, which really leaves us with no choice but killing every soldier we're allowed to kill for sanction.

    Sorry that you're not having fun, though.
    Even after killing me once while defending and never stepping foot back in Mhaldor after my death?
  • SerinSerin Member Posts: 56 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    Talk to me in game IC and we can work something out.RP wise though you may have to take an execution for weakness or something but I can work it out. 
    I have no issue taking a punishment at all, RP wise it makes complete sense.  I just want to enjoy the game again and right now its a chore.  Do this, don't do that.  Stay out, stay in.  Be ready at all times, then hide.  It so confusing.
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,216 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited June 2017
    Khel said:
    I wish war terms were more interesting. Right now both sides have to do this 'neener neener you can't duel anyone but our best/you can't sanction/you can't x' because of how mechanics work. Not being able to duel other low tier people and not being able to just let the sanction happen so I can get glorious combat (and instead running around the world so I don't get dragged into Mhaldor to die) is pretty boring.

    I love the idea and would probably be on more often if things were bloodier. I appreciate the effort that went in to making this happen, too, buy I'm hopeful mk2 encourages recklessness not pure defense on all fronts to avoid giving points.
    That was the idea. I understand your non-leaders not wanting to engage (on both sides), but Mhaldor has bee dodging us when they have their normal leaders around too. Raid Targossas when Farrah and I are here, we're not going to abandon the city to avoid sanction unless you're just being obnoxious with numbers.

    This mentality of no sanction by any means is annoying to deal with for everyone involved.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    YselaJayden
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,991 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sobriquet said:
    On the flip side this war is pretty much invisible to other cities, as per usual, it seems the two major factions get all the attention.
    As far as I know, a lot of work was put in by players to make this happen. We "get all the attention" because we have people (mainly, if not exclusively, Farrah on our side) willing to do that work. Simple as that.
    Serin said:
    Farrah said:
    He participated in the defense, as noted above, by going into sewers where the Mhaldor defense group was fighting. It was absolutely in accordance with the rules of war to go after him later (while the raid was still ongoing), as clarified in the public post. I did try to renegotiate the rules so this wouldn't happen, but Mhaldor did not agree to stop their own lame tactics in exchange, which really leaves us with no choice but killing every soldier we're allowed to kill for sanction.

    Sorry that you're not having fun, though.
    Even after killing me once while defending and never stepping foot back in Mhaldor after my death?
    Yes. The rules are in place specifically so there's some recourse for you (and the rest of Mhaldor, and Targossas) doing exactly that.
  • KhelKhel Member Posts: 279 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited June 2017
    There's no incentive to allow sanction. We didn't really have the crew to do much last night, we got crushed when you dove us on sewer totem even. We had like 2 people who knew what they were doing and me, idk about the rest but a lot were in and out or afking. So I count as like -1 people. (Edited for clarity)

    Targ supposedly only been sending their best out to duel, too. And I know in the raid I did, they were trying to do the same thing we did last night, we just managed to land the sanction.

    I'm not sure what kind of rule would be needed, but I think relying on sanction (which is opt in) is a little unfortunate. So is duels, which are also opt in.

    Spitballing some: for war, an item that works like a tank but it's a flag you plant without sanction. Hold the flag for 45 min, get a note in your log/their log about it. Flag disappears for an IG day so you can't spam it. If you get your flag uprooted, also goes away for an IG day and gives theirs back.

    I think duels are cool but there isn't a tiered system at all. So either you let your garbage fight and bleed points or you send your best out. Imo cap duel points someone can earn. If you play safe you get 4 from your 2 best, if you risk some lowbies you get more maybe. And if they go for the 100% win on your lowbies with a good fighter, they lose out on that fighter for bigger fights. It'd at least encourage even match ups to 'save' better fighters for better challengers.
    Kiet
  • SerinSerin Member Posts: 56 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited June 2017
    Just so I am understanding the rules of war correct:

    If I log into Mhaldor, I have one minute to leave or I am considered a killable target.

    If I defend and die, when I come back to life and stay away from the city I am still considered a killable target (For how long, till the raid is done? That doesn't make sense to me though)

    Pretty much for the month I am going to have to deal with dying pretty much every day until I get a handle on combat?

  • AtalkezAtalkez Member, Secret Squirrel Posts: 5,216 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Like Farrah said, we offered to change that rule but Mhaldor chose not to accept.

    Khel, I'd be down for that, but that's a lot of tracking/upkeep for someone to do. Put people into tiers? Which tier can you fight? Penalties for fighting it if your tier? Etc.

    The incentive to giving up sanction are the disarm points, but the last 3 nights we've raided with equitable groups against your actual leaders, but they still dodge instead of fight.


    You hug Aurora compassionately.
  • AhmetAhmet Wherever I wanna beMember Posts: 3,370 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Serin

    It kinda sucks, but the rules have to be that way. Otherwise you'd have people actively defending, then immediately running and claiming 'oh I left the city you can't attack me go away'. Honestly, just avoid Mhaldor. I know it sucks, but there's very little reason to actually be in the city, unless you're meeting up with someone for some particular reason, after which point you can just leave.

    You can do like some of your fellow citymates and loiter in Cyrene, instead! Seriously though, there's plenty of safe places to be, and if you're not actively fighting and you're not part of the raids, nobody should end up coming after you regardless.

    Or, you could find one of the countless hidey-holes across Sapience that nobody knows how to get into, and just sit in one of those when you're not out hunting/shopping/whatever.
    Huh. Neat.
    PrytheJayden
  • KhelKhel Member Posts: 279 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    @Atalkez don't need to tier it (potentially) if you do it by fighter. Ie you can only fight 2 duels for your city. Then it's just matching people who are close to try to save your good fighters for theirs.

    Sanction/disarm is tricky because you are risking them scoring in order to score yourself. There's a lot of lame I can think of to abuse it, too. An attack declaration independent of defenders that doesn't punish them for a response is betterish? If you raid and we fight, we risk giving you points or stand to gain some ourselves. If we ignore you, points stay the same. So the 'safe' option is to not fight. Unless crushing odds, not worth the risk. If you plant a flag or whatever then hold to earn points, it means defenders can try freely to oust you with only points to gain. They ignored, you score. They fight, maybe they get lucky and score instead. It could use some tweaking I'm sure but build the rules around what you want to encourage and it'll get spammed because we all play to win.
  • KryptonKrypton shi-KhurenaMember Posts: 2,377 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Serin said:
    Just so I am understanding the rules of war correct:

    If I log into Mhaldor, I have one minute to leave or I am considered a killable target.

    You have one minute until you are attacked. The current incarnation of Terms is interpretable as: You were in Mhaldor (at ANY point during a raid), so you are already free game -- though you have one minute to prepare yourself.

    Don't log-off / log-in in Mhaldor.
    Kiet
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