You all should be forced to play in Cyrene for a while. Gotta remember how to appreciate what you have!
To be honest, I don't know why you continue to remain a citizen of Cyrene. All I see is you complaining, in game and out. Here, Discord, Achaea. I just don't get it. No one is making you stay there. Why do you?
There's a lot of things I do like about Cyrene, I just don't like the current ruling clique. You can't make changes in a democratic city state by leaving when there are things you don't like.
Following my OOC posts will give a somewhat disproportionate view of my feelings, too. I rant when frustrated, and otherwise, I'm probably in game playing!
Good to know that you like a lot of things about Cyrene. What are those things?
There are a lot of ways to make changes. There are constructive ways. There are helpful ways. Then, there is complaining and spreading discontent which is generally ineffective.
BTW - I'm not basing my question solely on your OOC rants, your IC demeanour was taken into account as well.
Good to know that you like a lot of things about Cyrene. What are those things?
There are a lot of ways to make changes. There are constructive ways. There are helpful ways. Then, there is complaining and spreading discontent which is generally ineffective.
BTW - I'm not basing my question solely on your OOC rants, your IC demeanour was taken into account as well.
I complain to friends when people make decisions that are frustrating and dumb, yes. The goal isn't always to be productive, so much as to vent (for both me and my character, sometimes). And spreading discontent can be an effective tool if the goal is to erode public support for factions/people you don't like, and for some people, sharing complaints and letting them know that they're not alone in their frustrations is quite helpful! And frankly, it's all way more effective then trying to push through a system that a certain clique has a stranglehold on, as far as I'm concerned. Jayden tried, and she gave up in frustration after, among other things, having to deal with other senators berating her for publicly disagreeing with Verrucht.
I'd be happy to give some full account of my experiences with and feelings for Cyrene, but a thread about a Mhaldorian and Targossian war is probably not the right place to do it (People need to get back to their war rants that they love so much, after all). I'd be happy to answer things in messages or another thread, though!
Here's a table Herenicus gave me (posted above by Aegoth) that shows the kill:death:TK ratio for each player. Nyderrasethi hits clean for 15 - 4. Way to go man Aegoth second with 11-0 (killed himself 1) Farrah third with 11-8
My big problem with the duels was that duels were worth too many points when compared to a tank. People were unwilling to try duels when they weren't confident of a win because the duels were worth so much that a string of failed duels could easily have been a war winner.
Now that problem is even worse because losing one duel is worth the same amount of points as a full fledged sanction+tank combo. This makes it really hard to make up the points for a string of lost lowbie/midbie duels, because we can only get one tank per month and it is all but certain that it'll be a one point tank. The only real way to make up for a midbie on a bad run of duels is for somebody else to go on an asskicking spree, and even then that just breaks even, so you need more than one person to go on a winning streak to counterbalance one midbie on a losing streak.
This, obviously, really discourages dueling. I mean, one midbie who loses 75% of their duels will give up ~6 points to the enemy over a 14 day war(14 duels, call it ~10 losses 4 wins, 6 point advantage for enemy). That's more than an entire Nishnatoba battle or a naval fight. Almost a full week of L1 tanks, with all those points given up by one guy who's honestly trying to fight and improve.
The system as it is now makes duels the most important part of the war, which is absolutely crazy. War should be about group combat and objectives, not 1v1's.
I think it's been multiple times, but this is one of the first times (if not the first) were terms and conditions were made for an actual war for the participansts. It is by no means a perfect system for -everybody-. But it also should not discredit those who are earnestly trying.
Do I agree with it all? No
Do I think there could have been other things? Sure
But it would be potentless to sit here and not acknowledge all of the work and effort that not only players have put in, but also divine. My advice is: if you have feedback, by all means speak to someone in the realms about it. Maybe for the next war there can be different areas and other things for those who are not as focused in singular combat, or combat in general to have fun with.
Yes, it can be gamed by having skilled players at lower ranks; but the game is "played" currently by refusing to fight. Quitting army to reset your rank needs to be pre-gamed.
You incentivize risk-taking by rewarding lower ranks (potentially) winning; you limit the damage they do by shaping the feeding.
The right to refuse still mitigates the inanity of high-ranked unskilled players, as it does currently.
The cleaner alternative is to just have duels separate from any actual war.
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us."
Comments
There are a lot of ways to make changes. There are constructive ways. There are helpful ways. Then, there is complaining and spreading discontent which is generally ineffective.
BTW - I'm not basing my question solely on your OOC rants, your IC demeanour was taken into account as well.
We're just waiting for the day Verrucht comes out and says let them eat cake
I'd be happy to give some full account of my experiences with and feelings for Cyrene, but a thread about a Mhaldorian and Targossian war is probably not the right place to do it (People need to get back to their war rants that they love so much, after all). I'd be happy to answer things in messages or another thread, though!
Aegoth second with 11-0 (killed himself 1)
Farrah third with 11-8
Kills Casualties Friendly-Fire
Targossas 58 139 18
Aegoth 11 0 0
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
A clash of drums thundered throughout the land as the Orphean Serenade rang out
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
1 point differential after the first week is fantastic.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
[ SnB PvP Guide | Link ]
https://pastebin.com/PiuZmRAX
My big problem with the duels was that duels were worth too many points when compared to a tank. People were unwilling to try duels when they weren't confident of a win because the duels were worth so much that a string of failed duels could easily have been a war winner.
Now that problem is even worse because losing one duel is worth the same amount of points as a full fledged sanction+tank combo. This makes it really hard to make up the points for a string of lost lowbie/midbie duels, because we can only get one tank per month and it is all but certain that it'll be a one point tank. The only real way to make up for a midbie on a bad run of duels is for somebody else to go on an asskicking spree, and even then that just breaks even, so you need more than one person to go on a winning streak to counterbalance one midbie on a losing streak.
This, obviously, really discourages dueling. I mean, one midbie who loses 75% of their duels will give up ~6 points to the enemy over a 14 day war(14 duels, call it ~10 losses 4 wins, 6 point advantage for enemy). That's more than an entire Nishnatoba battle or a naval fight. Almost a full week of L1 tanks, with all those points given up by one guy who's honestly trying to fight and improve.
The system as it is now makes duels the most important part of the war, which is absolutely crazy. War should be about group combat and objectives, not 1v1's.
Do I agree with it all? No
Do I think there could have been other things? Sure
But it would be potentless to sit here and not acknowledge all of the work and effort that not only players have put in, but also divine. My advice is: if you have feedback, by all means speak to someone in the realms about it. Maybe for the next war there can be different areas and other things for those who are not as focused in singular combat, or combat in general to have fun with.
Uncapped duels for any member of the Army
Points scoring:
AR5 Proficy, MPr5 (Mhaldor) vs. AR1 Tysandr, TTy1 (Targossas)
Proficy wins:
TTy1 / MPr5 = 0.2
Tysandr wins:
MPr5 / TTy1 = 5
AR5 Proficy, MPr5 vs. AR3 Etheros, TEt3 & AR2 Daeir, TDa2
Proficy wins:
(TEt3 + TDa2) / MPr5 = 1
Etheros & Daeir wins:
0.5 * MPr5 / (TEt3 + TDa2) = 0.5
AR5 Proficy, MPr5 & AR5 Medi, MMe5 vs. AR1 Ankhareoutef, TAn1 & AR5 Farrah, TFa5
Proficy & Medi wins:
0.5 * (TAn1 + TFa5) / (MPr5 + MMe5) = 0.3
Ankhareoutef & Farrah wins:
0.5 * (MPr5 + MMe5) / (TAn1 + TFa5) = 0.8
AR5 Proficy, MPr5 & AR5 Medi, MMe5 & AR3 Melodie, MMe3 & AR2 Remilia, MRe2 vs. AR2 Daeir, TDa2 & AR5 Farrah, TFa5 & AR3 Tesha, TTe3 & AR1 Tysandr, TTy1
Proficy, Medi, Melodie & Remilia wins:
0.25 * (TDa2 + TFa5 + TTe3 + TTy1) / (MPr5 + MMe5 + MMe3 + MRe2) = 0.2
Daeir, Farrah, Tesha & Tysandr wins:
0.25 * (MPr5 + MMe5 + MMe3 + MRe2) / (TDa2 + TFa5 + TTe3 + TTy1) = 0.3
AR1 Seortiae, MSe1 vs. AR1 Tysandr, TTy1
Seortiae wins:
TTy1 / MSe1 = 1
Tysandr wins:
MSe1 / TTy1 = 1
AR5 Proficy, MPr5 vs. AR5 Atalkez, TAt5
Proficy wins:
TAt5 / MPr5 = 1
Atalkez wins:
MPr5 / TAt5 = 1
Last example
AR3 Khel, MKh3 & AR4 Reyson, MRe4 & AR4 Kythra, MKy4 vs. AR5 Farrah, TFa5
Khel, Reyson & Kythra win:
0.33 * TFa5 / (MKh3 + MRe4 + MKy4) = 0.2
Farrah wins:
(MKh3 + MRe4 + MKy4) / TFa5 = 2.2
Yes, it can be gamed by having skilled players at lower ranks; but the game is "played" currently by refusing to fight. Quitting army to reset your rank needs to be pre-gamed.
You incentivize risk-taking by rewarding lower ranks (potentially) winning; you limit the damage they do by shaping the feeding.
The right to refuse still mitigates the inanity of high-ranked unskilled players, as it does currently.
The cleaner alternative is to just have duels separate from any actual war.