Honestly, what's the deal with gold grabbing?

Ernam

Would ask you to be more specific, because in the cases that I'm aware where I made a mistake, I was quick to admit it and adjust my perspective accordingly - but what you're mentioning has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Cobault

Ernam said:

Person A )  Is a perfectly kind, thoughtful, empathetic person, who like many others, installs SVO to help with curing.  She decides she would like to go bashing for a while, but gets bored while bashing, so turns on her TV and splits her attention between Lost and 300 pages of "garrote gnoll, you have recovered balance on all limbs".  Somewhere in that 300 pages, she fails to notice that she grabbed 36 gold in a room where another basher also killed a gnoll.

Person B )  Also decides to go out bashing, and in the process of doing so, also endures 300 pages of mundane, boring text.  In this 300 pages, he ALSO grabs gold at least once or twice, but overlooks this as perfectly acceptable, because he stopped to give it back (disrupting both of them).  Later, he runs into Person A while bashing, who without any ill intention, walks in, kills a gnoll, and as if automatically, grabs the gold and moves on.  This makes person B very angry.

Ernam

You seem to be ruling out the possibility that they walked in, grabbed the gold, noticed that they grabbed the gold, and simply didn't stop to give it back (because it's a waste of time and energy, and screws up your route respawn).

Or maybe they just don't like you. ('you' being in general)

Nim

What I'm getting from @Ernam's arguments is that if you use triggers for some economical gain, you're allowed to take small amounts from other players. Brb making a dragon slaying script.

Ernam

Nim said:

What I'm getting from @Ernam's arguments is that if you use triggers for some economical gain, you're allowed to take small amounts from other players pick up gold on the ground.  Brb making a dragon slaying script.

Nim

Your arguments included curative use, therefore they can be generalized to any resource as long as it's a minute enough quantity.

Rip

The original poster wants to know what's up with gold grabbing.  It's a simple answer.

More and more people have made scripts to get anything from the ground, including gold.

I find this whole thread completely funny and how it's been bent out of proportion, just amazes me.

New Trait: Sovereign Sucker, Penny Pincher, Gold Gatherer  (Recovers gold from slain denizen before they hit the ground.)

IF it was "theft", getting gold from the ground would cause your Infamy level to spike.

Be kind to your in-game neighbor.  Return the gold or ask if they even want it.  Problem solved.  Move on with something more important, like why killing denizens is cold blooded murder...

Edit: Spelling errors...as always.

Jules

It's not the gold, it's being forced to "interact"/share a space with bots, when I had some expectation that there was a person, and hopefully a person with some manners.  It's especially rich that some people really are trying to push the line so that it's the OP's problem when their bots act like bots. 

Cynlael

Austere said:

Comparing a get gold trigger to auto hunting is just ignorant.  An effective auto hunter [not including the Ai to not get busted] would be hundreds of triggers/scripts/area specific programming.

Lol. You're severely overexaggerating here, that's all I'm going to point out.

Trigger on GMCP when entering a room, to either a) Kill a target if it's available, or b) Move to the next room on a predetermined table. This is a grand total of about 10 lines of code tops.

Target list takes all of about 1 minute per area you want to do, and getting a list of room numbers only requires you to enable a trigger, and walk around an area (this takes about 5 lines of code to achieve at max)

Let's not go Ernam-mode when trying to make these sort of claims.


edit: Source - I have one. Three, actually.

Austere

Cynlael said:

Austere said:

Comparing a get gold trigger to auto hunting is just ignorant.  An effective auto hunter [not including the Ai to not get busted] would be hundreds of triggers/scripts/area specific programming.

Lol. You're severely overexaggerating here, that's all I have to say.

Trigger on GMCP when entering a room, to either a) Kill a target if it's available, or b) Move to the next room on a predetermined table. This is a grand total of about 10 lines of code tops.

Target list takes all of about 1 minute per area you want to do, and getting a list of room numbers only requires you to enable a trigger, and walk around an area (this takes about 5 lines of code to achieve at max)

Let's not go Ernam-mode when trying to make these sort of claims.

I won't swear to it,  but i believe i read somewhere that even if you move rooms or attack at the exact same interval,  you get flagged for possible auto.  My point remains that is not as easy as some people want to make it out to be.  If you act like a bot and perfectly hunt,  you will get busted. All of this is more complex that a get gold trigger. .

Also, it's possible i am completely wrong.  I made sure to explain how i got Dragon to support how little i know about this.  Going to have to excuse my ignorance a bit here. 

Aalm

This whole argument started over somebody picking up another person's 170 gold. It's kinda starting to seem like that 170 gold is the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand after Otto von Bismark broke the balance of the Congress of Vienna with the reunification of Germany. We're going to World War, people; we're going to World War over 170 gold. And it's gonna get ugly.

So, to paraphrase Minister Grey of Great Britain, "The lights are going out all over Achaea, and we'll never see them again in our lifetimes."

Cynlael

Austere said:

My point remains that is not as easy as some people want to make it out to be.

It really is. I can 100% assure you of this. Not saying it's legal, just saying it is ridiculously easy to do. It's damn near impossible to get shrubbed for it, unless you're stupid enough to actually go AFK with it for ages (in which case you 100% deserve the shrub), rather than just set it on a different screen or something while you watch tv / play something else.

Takes 2 minutes to set up alerts, for when something goes wrong. IE- knocked off path, put in a different room, walled off in the middle of your path, etc. Download ventrilo or something, and use the sound effects that the app has for said alerts. Easy.

Source: Penwize.

Austere

Cynlael said:

Austere said:

My point remains that is not as easy as some people want to make it out to be.

It really is. I can 100% assure you of this. Not saying it's legal, just saying it is ridiculously easy to do. It's damn near impossible to get shrubbed for it, unless you're stupid enough to actually go AFK with it for ages (in which case you 100% deserve the shrub), rather than just set it on a different screen or something while you watch tv / play something else.

Takes 2 minutes to set up alerts, for when something goes wrong. IE- knocked off path, put in a different room, walled off in the middle of your path, etc. Download ventrilo or something, and use the sound effects that the app has for said alerts. Easy.

Source: Penwize.

Feel free to post an example script,  but i don't see ten lines of code preventing you from the shrub hammer. .

Mathonwy

Here is a fascinating wikipedia article that, funnily enough, popped into my head after reading this whole ordeal for some reason (read: to make sure someone posted a Seinfeld reference).

Nim

I'm pretty sure people aren't saying that you should be permashrubbed for nabbing someone's gold though, just that it's a faux pas, kind of rude, and people are free to react to it. This is a roleplaying game, after all. Otherwise you'd be seeing people selling EXP via PKing, for instance.

Aalm

Mathonwy said:

Here is a fascinating wikipedia article that, funnily enough, popped into my head after reading this whole ordeal for some reason (read: to make sure someone posted a Seinfeld reference).

@Mathonwy : One, as a reference librarian I can assure you that even a 5th grade teacher wouldn't allow Wikipedia to represent facts in anything formal like class or debate. Two, in nodding to unspecified people as having this, you're kinda nodding to having it yourself.

Rip

@Nim, long time ago I sold my death's for 10k per starburst...only because all my stuff dusted...but seriously.  If you buy some artifacts and make a profit for IRE I doubt they really care how you play the game.

Mathonwy

Aalm said:

Mathonwy said:

Here is a fascinating wikipedia article that, funnily enough, popped into my head after reading this whole ordeal for some reason (read: to make sure someone posted a Seinfeld reference).

@Mathonwy : One, as a reference librarian I can assure you that even a 5th grade teacher wouldn't allow Wikipedia to represent facts in anything formal like class or debate. Two, in nodding to unspecified people as having this, you're kinda nodding to having it yourself.

does this mean that, in you nodding to me nodding to them, you also have it

oh my god, this is how zombie movies start

Aalm

Mathonwy said:

Aalm said:

Mathonwy said:

Here is a fascinating wikipedia article that, funnily enough, popped into my head after reading this whole ordeal for some reason (read: to make sure someone posted a Seinfeld reference).

@Mathonwy : One, as a reference librarian I can assure you that even a 5th grade teacher wouldn't allow Wikipedia to represent facts in anything formal like class or debate. Two, in nodding to unspecified people as having this, you're kinda nodding to having it yourself.

does this mean that, in you nodding to me nodding to them, you also have it

oh my god, this is how zombie movies start

@Mathonwy : no, I am not going to engage in one of these dumb internet arguments where somebody's acting like my shrink while stabbing me at the same time. I kinda tried to derail this thread off that sort of thing, and it's not working so you go and have it out with someone else. Have fun.

Cynlael

Austere said:

Feel free to post an example script,  but i don't see ten lines of code preventing you from the shrub hammer. .

Lol I'm not posting here how to set up an auto basher. Sorry to sound like Ernam, but telling everyone on a public forum how to set that up is just asking to be banned.

edit: Also said the basher itself took that many lines, not avoiding shrubs. But even that is only a total of about 3-4 triggers, and an additional 50 lines of code -tops-, which isn't even remotely close to a moderate amount of coding.

Trey

Mathonwy said:

Aalm said:

Mathonwy said:

Here is a fascinating wikipedia article that, funnily enough, popped into my head after reading this whole ordeal for some reason (read: to make sure someone posted a Seinfeld reference).

@Mathonwy : One, as a reference librarian I can assure you that even a 5th grade teacher wouldn't allow Wikipedia to represent facts in anything formal like class or debate. Two, in nodding to unspecified people as having this, you're kinda nodding to having it yourself.

does this mean that, in you nodding to me nodding to them, you also have it

oh my god, this is how zombie movies start

Double-tap.

Andregor

Nizana

Aalm said:

This whole argument started over somebody picking up another person's 170 gold. It's kinda starting to seem like that 170 gold is the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand after Otto von Bismark broke the balance of the Congress of Vienna with the reunification of Germany. We're going to World War, people; we're going to World War over 170 gold. And it's gonna get ugly.

So, to paraphrase Minister Grey of Great Britain, "The lights are going out all over Achaea, and we'll never see them again in our lifetimes."

OOCly, this whole argument is very ridiculous. Everyone can agree that being stolen from is an annoyance, whether it is 170 gold or 300k gold. (The latter is VERY annoying)

We should probably focus on the IC response to these sorts of things. Would your character tolerate theft from them? Annoyances to their routine? Rudeness?

Way back when, during my first go at Achaea, I had a blademaster paralyze me and kill me just to take the gold off my corpse. It was all in a bag, sure, but he killed me. I was Lv. 25-30? Was Cyrenian, had no curatives. This pissed me off beyond belief, and I harassed some higher-ups about whether I can go and kill him or not. Most of the responses I got was to let it go, he didn't really do anything, even though I was justified I don't want to get into that whole 'scene' at my level.

Frankly, OOCly, I lost practically nothing. I was Lv. 30-ish, how hard is it to get xp at that level? Manara gives like 5 levels easy. My gold was secure, so I lost maybe 30g that was just sitting around, and the people in Cyrene were quick to help me recoup that loss.

ICly, my character 'really' wanted to cut that guy's face off. Because honestly, what the flying f***?! I'm minding my own business bashing Manara and this ass roles in and paralyzes me and then kills me for no reason, then proceeds to never log on again.

Anyway, perspective. You can all go back to talking about scripts and how silly this thread is. I just wanted to contribute a little more to the fire.

Andregor

Nizana said:

Aalm said:

This whole argument started over somebody picking up another person's 170 gold. It's kinda starting to seem like that 170 gold is the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand after Otto von Bismark broke the balance of the Congress of Vienna with the reunification of Germany. We're going to World War, people; we're going to World War over 170 gold. And it's gonna get ugly.

So, to paraphrase Minister Grey of Great Britain, "The lights are going out all over Achaea, and we'll never see them again in our lifetimes."

OOCly, this whole argument is very ridiculous. Everyone can agree that being stolen from is an annoyance, whether it is 170 gold or 300k gold. (The latter is VERY annoying)

We should probably focus on the IC response to these sorts of things. Would your character tolerate theft from them? Annoyances to their routine? Rudeness?

Way back when, during my first go at Achaea, I had a blademaster paralyze me and kill me just to take the gold off my corpse. It was all in a bag, sure, but he killed me. I was Lv. 25-30? Was Cyrenian, had no curatives. This pissed me off beyond belief, and I harassed some higher-ups about whether I can go and kill him or not. Most of the responses I got was to let it go, he didn't really do anything, even though I was justified I don't want to get into that whole 'scene' at my level.

Frankly, OOCly, I lost practically nothing. I was Lv. 30-ish, how hard is it to get xp at that level? Manara gives like 5 levels easy. My gold was secure, so I lost maybe 30g that was just sitting around, and the people in Cyrene were quick to help me recoup that loss.

ICly, my character 'really' wanted to cut that guy's face off. Because honestly, what the flying f***?! I'm minding my own business bashing Manara and this ass roles in and paralyzes me and then kills me for no reason, then proceeds to never log on again.

Anyway, perspective. You can all go back to talking about scripts and how silly this thread is. I just wanted to contribute a little more to the fire.

In the BM's defense his auto hunting script probably just targeted you.

Jules

The argument is more "if you're a bot, have the decency to pretend you're not botting".  Anyway, first page suggestion of autolooting gold (instead of just being weird corpse snatchers like we are now), addresses this particular annoyance nicely (and as also mentioned on that first page, does work beautifully in practice). 

Nicaara

Imperian has gold auto-looting. Steal some code, stick it right in, problem solved. I honestly have no idea how this thread got FOUR pages long.. some of you guys are reading into this a little much.

Cobault

Cynlael said:

Austere said:

My point remains that is not as easy as some people want to make it out to be.

It really is. I can 100% assure you of this. Not saying it's legal, just saying it is ridiculously easy to do. It's damn near impossible to get shrubbed for it, unless you're stupid enough to actually go AFK with it for ages (in which case you 100% deserve the shrub), rather than just set it on a different screen or something while you watch tv / play something else.

Takes 2 minutes to set up alerts, for when something goes wrong. IE- knocked off path, put in a different room, walled off in the middle of your path, etc. Download ventrilo or something, and use the sound effects that the app has for said alerts. Easy.

Source: Penwize.

...I know so many people that auto-hunt. And they do exactly like you said. People don't understand that you can automate anything in this game, as long as you don't automate it and go afk. It's when you automate and go afk that you get in deep trouble for it. You can even still set Mudlet to ping a noise at certain stuff, can't you?

But lol, I'm ignorant. And it would take a coding God to come up with an auto-hunt script. People are so quick to try and start insulting someone I swear.

Cynlael

Cobault said:

You can even still set Mudlet to ping a noise at certain stuff, can't you?

Yep.


Change 'tells you' to whatever you want. Then tick the sound file box on the right, and it'll play a sound when your line is matched, and you're alt tabbed.

Austere

If you know so many people that auto hunt,  you should report them.  There is no excuse for hands off hunting.  Dor is one thing,  but if people are seriously auto scripting entire areas,  that's bad.  I still do not believe this problem is as rampant as some people let on.  Maybe it won't take a coding god,  but as someone who has released public scripts,  half of our player base couldn't code a trigger to smile if their life depended on it.  

Sarapis

Austere said:

If you know so many people that auto hunt,  you should report them.  There is no excuse for hands off hunting.  Dor is one thing,  but if people are seriously auto scripting entire areas,  that's bad.  I still do not believe this problem is as rampant as some people let on.  Maybe it won't take a coding god,  but as someone who has released public scripts,  half of our player base couldn't code a trigger to smile if their life depended on it.  

Few things make my day like catching a cheater in action and perma-shrubbing, so if you know people who are hands-off hunting while they do something else, by all means msg me or Tecton. Nobody will ever know who reported them, and believe me, it's very easy to catch once we start paying attention to that person.