Honestly, what's the deal with gold grabbing?

Kayeil

If it's accidental it 's no big deal, but I'm sure a good deal of us have run into those players who are well aware that they're doing it and will continuously do it to you to intentionally be a jerk. Also one of those players who doesn't use a trigger to pick up gold, I think the auto grabbing just tends to be rude because people obviously do get annoyed at the gold being taken accidentally, and some react to it without really thinking it through that it might have been an accident.

Bluef

Ernam said:

Masaryk said:

...  but my point still stands that these actions seem to me senseless acts of just trying to piss someone off (that is, knowingly taking it and not returning, as opposed to accidentally looting it, and returning it).

Considering that approximately zero people actually collect gold manually, and approximately everyone reaches a zombie-like state while bashing, and is usually encompassed in spam (perhaps even literally), when the heist occurs, I think it's safe to say that rarely if ever is it "intentional" (either grabbing it, or not returning it).

Consider also the fact that the time it takes both the person to stop bashing to give you the gold and the time it takes you to stop to receive it costs you (both) more gold than you exchange.  I understand that for you this is a matter of principle, but it is a principle based purely on your desire to accumulate gold.  If your desire is in fact to accumulate gold, please see my above points 1-14.

Also, on average, if everyone just ignored this when it happened (assuming it occurs accidentally), then theoretically it would even out to a zero loss for everyone (because you would occasionally get other people's gold too).

Zero people? I'm a person. I collect gold manually. I don't see any reason not to. It keeps me focused on what I'm doing (bashing) and ensures I am never even slightly tempted to look elsewhere while swiftcursing the hell out of something on repeat.

Intent is not the issue. Being an asshole is. If you want to use an auto looter, be aware of your surroundings. It's that simple. Don't look at something else while following someone around and pick up other people's loot and not expect people to call you out on your actions. It has absolutely nothing to do with the value of what's lost either; it's about not being the stereotypical zombie while bashing because it's bad form all around.

You can't play Achaea in single player mode. We're an online community. That's the very essence of the game: We exist in a Multi-user dimension. People can take a moment to stop and correct their wrong; by doing so they will be better regarded by the person and likely the community as a whole.

Rip

Well, I have a small CTS problem from Achaea, and hunting in general.  Picking up gold manually, ie typing Get gold...sort of hurts, so I get gold on a slain denizen via a trigger.

I blame wunderSys as the auto looter...it grabs everything, gold, corpses...etc etc

Andregor

Orzaansyn

Bluef said:

Ernam said:

Masaryk said:

... [things]

Considering that approximately zero people actually collect gold manually. [...]

Zero people? I'm a person. I collect gold manually. [...]

@Bluef  : You are an approximation.  

Someone took your gold with triggers? Tell them to give it back. They refused? Kill them. You're not strong enough? Learn combat, then kill them.

Simple solutions are often the best ones.

Caladbolg

Get your own gold auto picker up, pretty easy to code your self, and stop complaining about everyone else. I'm not picking up that gold manually everytime im bashing my face into my keyboard trying to not die of boardem bashing.

Jules

Nim's suggestion would pretty much fix this, and as Elawien noted, Imperian already has it.  It does work like a charm, even with group bashing.
 

That said, I was wondering if this thread would bring out the galloping hypocrisy surrounding the use of bashing programs (which is, in short, if you're not mostly automated, you're wrong).  So here's the thing.  When I am more manual (which I am), I am more likely to be respectful of other people using the same bashing area I am, just because I'm more *there*.  I probably won't act like a "bot", because I'm not a bot.  Look, more power to those who can mostly automate their bashing, but it's really irritating seeing them try to push the line of acceptable behavior to accommodate bot-like behavior.  

Caladbolg

Bluef said:

Ernam said:

Masaryk said:

...  but my point still stands that these actions seem to me senseless acts of just trying to piss someone off (that is, knowingly taking it and not returning, as opposed to accidentally looting it, and returning it).

Considering that approximately zero people actually collect gold manually, and approximately everyone reaches a zombie-like state while bashing, and is usually encompassed in spam (perhaps even literally), when the heist occurs, I think it's safe to say that rarely if ever is it "intentional" (either grabbing it, or not returning it).

Consider also the fact that the time it takes both the person to stop bashing to give you the gold and the time it takes you to stop to receive it costs you (both) more gold than you exchange.  I understand that for you this is a matter of principle, but it is a principle based purely on your desire to accumulate gold.  If your desire is in fact to accumulate gold, please see my above points 1-14.

Also, on average, if everyone just ignored this when it happened (assuming it occurs accidentally), then theoretically it would even out to a zero loss for everyone (because you would occasionally get other people's gold too).

Zero people? I'm a person. I collect gold manually. I don't see any reason not to. It keeps me focused on what I'm doing (bashing) and ensures I am never even slightly tempted to look elsewhere while swiftcursing the hell out of something on repeat.

Intent is not the issue. Being an asshole is. If you want to use an auto looter, be aware of your surroundings. It's that simple. Don't look at something else while following someone around and pick up other people's loot and not expect people to call you out on your actions. It has absolutely nothing to do with the value of what's lost either; it's about not being the stereotypical zombie while bashing because it's bad form all around.

You can't play Achaea in single player mode. We're an online community. That's the very essence of the game: We exist in a Multi-user dimension. People can take a moment to stop and correct their wrong; by doing so they will be better regarded by the person and likely the community as a whole.

I like the people who complain about something simple they should have or understand if it happens, because let's face it gold dropping and manual picking it up is old and should've been changed to instant into your inv along time ago alot less than the people who randomly pick up gold because it happens while bashing, on the other hand i've never had any problems with anyone over this because A. it happened once I let it go honestly 200 gold isn't that big of a deal or any deal at all or B. if it happens alot I shoot them a tell and ask them to stop it they do or if they don't it turns into combat which is acceptable as well. 

On the other hand do you realize getting pickpocketed one time is 10x the amount your losing here?

Nim

If you grab someone else's gold, people are free to think less of you for it. The fact it was a trigger has no bearing or capacity to shield you from the fact that you just disrespected them, blatantly. You can argue one room's earnings aren't a lot, but you hardly did the work to get that money, now did you?

Ernam

Noak said:
That's like saying it's acceptable that the person took your quarter because they didn't notice you or that you were reaching for it. I guess I'm not seeing how said person is not an ass because they are lazy/oblivious to their surroundings.  

You guys keep making these metaphors that aren't even close to being accurate.  Nobody is being unduly "oblivious" or "rude".  They're treating this situation with the appropriate amount of concern that it should be given:  Little to none.

When I see someone being angry about something that they're openly agreeing shouldn't make them angry, purely out of a principle rooted in self-interest and a grossly misappropriated sense of priorities forces me to assume that they simply want to be angry at people, and are grasping desperately for something to be annoyed about, to the extent that they'll jump all over a situation that should in every case be ignored due to being, quite literally, irrelevant in every way.


I mean, to jump back on the metaphor wagon, you're essentially saying that a farmer is a wasteful idiot if he loses a single seed in the process of planting a year's worth of crops.

Was it wasteful?  Yes.  Could it have possibly been prevented?  Yes.  Is it even close to being important enough to spend a single moment contemplating, arguing about, begrudging people, or slinging words like "ass", "lazy", "oblivious", "rude" about?  Absolutely not.

Noak

Ernam said:

Noak said:
That's like saying it's acceptable that the person took your quarter because they didn't notice you or that you were reaching for it. I guess I'm not seeing how said person is not an ass because they are lazy/oblivious to their surroundings.  

You guys keep making these metaphors that aren't even close to being accurate.  Nobody is being unduly "oblivious" or "rude".  They're treating this situation with the appropriate amount of concern that it should be given:  Little to none.

When I see someone being angry about something that they're openly agreeing shouldn't make them angry, purely out of a principle rooted in self-interest and a grossly misappropriated sense of priorities forces me to assume that they simply want to be angry at people, and are grasping desperately for something to be annoyed about, to the extent that they'll jump all over a situation that should in every case be ignored due to being, quite literally, irrelevant in every way.


I mean, to jump back on the metaphor wagon, you're essentially saying that a farmer is a wasteful idiot if he loses a single seed in the process of planting a year's worth of crops.

Was it wasteful?  Yes.  Could it have possibly been prevented?  Yes.  Is it even close to being important enough to spend a single moment contemplating, arguing about, begrudging people, or slinging words like "ass", "lazy", "oblivious", "rude" about?  Absolutely not.

Actually, I was calling that farmer an oblivious, lazy, ass for taking his neighbors seeds on his way to his own fields. You know, the neighbor that just started his own farm and can't afford to lose even a single seed. Oh well, I guess he just needs to update his perspective on what to be angry about.  

Ernam

Bluef said:

Intent is not the issue. Being an asshole is.
Giving people a hard time over something meaningless is being an asshole.

 If you want to use an auto looter, be aware of your surroundings. It's that simple. Don't look at something else while following someone around and pick up other people's loot and not expect people to call you out on your actions.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the value of what's lost either; it's about not being the stereotypical zombie while bashing because it's bad form all around.
This is simply preposterous.  You spend more in a few seconds of combat on herbs/salves than you lose on this, and nobody thinks a thing of it.  Jhui isn't an "asshole" for making me cure afflictions.  It is readily dismissed as more or less ignorably cheap, despite being hundreds of times more expensive than "gold grabbing".

You can't play Achaea in single player mode. We're an online community. That's the very essence of the game: We exist in a Multi-user dimension. People can take a moment to stop and correct their wrong; by doing so they will be better regarded by the person and likely the community as a whole.

I agree, and I said this myself.  Achaea is a multiplayer game, with areas that must be shared.  Thus, you have to learn how to compromise and give a little at times to get along with people.  Throwing a hissy fit about a quantity of gold that you would quite literally never even notice missing if it evaporated out of your pack is being FAR more selfish and anti-social than a person who accidentally grabbed your gold while passing by. 

Nim

If someone starts afflicting me out of nowhere, and I'm not letting them test something, then that's called attacking, and if they aren't successful enough at it, they might end up dying.

Caladbolg

Nim said:

If someone starts afflicting me out of nowhere, and I'm not letting them test something, then that's called attacking, and if they aren't successful enough at it, they might end up dying.

If you come to targ your going to regret it

Nizana

Caladbolg said:

Get your own gold auto picker up, pretty easy to code your self, and stop complaining about everyone else. I'm not picking up that gold manually everytime im bashing my face into my keyboard trying to not die of boardem bashing.

While I agree with what you're saying, I bash with a 4s EQ timer. 4 seconds is more than enough time for someone I am battling with for an area to kill to breeze by and snatch my stuff, since picking up gold doesn't take balance.

I'm a noob when it comes to gold gathering, and I would love it if mobs dropped 175 gold when I killed them. (what I bash drops between like.. 20 gold to 80 gold, tops)

All that having been said, I try to not care enough about Achaea to let it stress me out. Principle or not. I get more pissed about losing 15% of xp after bashing for 2-4 hours and getting only 10%. If I really need gold, I'll just run Xhaiden Dale a few times for 3k a pop.

(edit:) Also, I don't know if this is terribly relevant to the conversation, but I've walked in and one-shotted mobs other people were killing before. I would apologize, blaming the monotony of warping over.. and over.. and over again. They would let it go, no big deal. That's how I feel about people who steal my gold. This is probably less applicable to you dragon types out there, though.

So my question, do you get the xp for last hitting someone else's mob? Or do they get it for doing all the leg-work?

Kez

What's really annoying is people who see your deathsight and then rush over to loot the room, including your corpse if it's there, or right in front of you if you starbursted. Yay free essence/cures/inks/gold/tears.

Melodie

Will steal your corpse for soulspears.

Razzlo

I think once is an accident, two times is dickish obliviousness, and three or more times is an asshole. 

Overall though, it is not a big deal unless the person is literally following me and picking up my gold, or they walk into the room and wait for me to kill something...and then pick it up and leave. Past that, shit happens.

Sena

Nizana said:

So my question, do you get the xp for last hitting someone else's mob? Or do they get it for doing all the leg-work?

The person (or group) that gets the last hit gets all of the experience.

Aalm

Melodie said:

Will steal your corpse for soulspears.

@Melodie : are you taking donations?

Nim

Aalm said:

Melodie said:

Will steal your corpse for soulspears.

@Melodie : are you taking donations?

And if so, are these tax deductible corpse donations? Can we, like, get receipts and stuff?

Talysin

I love Achaea because its like watching the real housewives, but in text.

Ernam

Noak said:

the neighbor ... can't afford to lose even a single seed....he just needs to update his perspective on what to be angry about.

Correct.  I understand that you're being sarcastic, but I don't understand why.  Your sarcastic comment is 100% rational.

Aalm

Nim said:

Aalm said:

Melodie said:

Will steal your corpse for soulspears.

@Melodie : are you taking donations?

And if so, are these tax deductible corpse donations? Can we, like, get receipts and stuff?

@Nim : Yes! It's the Donate Your Corpse to Children foundation, fully endorsed by Lord Sartan and guaranteeing a good use of your rotting corpse to further the cause of Evil in all its forms! I called the Infernal Revenue Service, they told me it's true! And not just true ONE time, but SEVEN!

Nim

wait, they're wasting soul spears on children? ugh, I'm switching charity groups, that's just a gross inefficiency. :c

Tahquil

Not going to comment on any of the posts but the OP. I understand the frustration  that comes when you've just killed a deni and someone walks through the room and nabs your gold before you can get you eq/bal back to grab the gold. That unfortunately isn't something you can do anything stop and most people will apologise for it and return gold if they notice or you ask. There are, however, people who don't. Simple as that. Best you can do is shake it off and move on.

In regards to gold grabbing triggers, mine fires a qeb when I see a deni slain which sometimes is unfortunate when I'm speeding through a room the exact moment another player kills something. I sometimes don't notice this because I'm trying to move fast. I don't have a ground grabber though, which stops a lot of gold stealing if I breeze through a room. I do have a highlight for the gold, so if I really want it I can just wait around for a few seconds to ensure there isn't a serpent hidden it belongs to before I grab it.

Melodie

Aalm said:

Nim said:

Aalm said:

Melodie said:

Will steal your corpse for soulspears.

@Melodie : are you taking donations?

And if so, are these tax deductible corpse donations? Can we, like, get receipts and stuff?

@Nim : Yes! It's the Donate Your Corpse to Children foundation, fully endorsed by Lord Sartan and guaranteeing a good use of your rotting corpse to further the cause of Evil in all its forms! I called the Infernal Revenue Service, they told me it's true!

 We here at Mhaldor Soulspear Charity wish to thank you for your preemptive donation, and will be making our rounds shortly to collect your corpse. Our soulspears are made with only the highest quality in mind, and aimed at our best and strongest opponents to ensure a full use of their necromantic abilities. No parts are wasted in these exquisite weapons, making them both deadly efficient and eco-friendly.

Again, we thank you from the bottom of your hearts for your donation. May you Suffer gloriously for your heartfelt giving.

Ernam

Ha, yeah - zero sympathy for people bashing hidden.  As a lifelong serpent (and a sentinel for a long time too), I've learned to accept it.

Aalm

Melodie said:

Aalm said:

Nim said:

Aalm said:

Melodie said:

Will steal your corpse for soulspears.

@Melodie : are you taking donations?

And if so, are these tax deductible corpse donations? Can we, like, get receipts and stuff?

@Nim : Yes! It's the Donate Your Corpse to Children foundation, fully endorsed by Lord Sartan and guaranteeing a good use of your rotting corpse to further the cause of Evil in all its forms! I called the Infernal Revenue Service, they told me it's true!

 We here at Mhaldor Soulspear Charity wish to thank you for your preemptive donation, and will be making our rounds shortly to collect your corpse. Our soulspears are made with only the highest quality in mind, and aimed at our best and strongest opponents to ensue a full use of their necromantic abilities. No parts are wasted in these exquisite weapons, making them both deadly efficient and [b]eco-friendly.[/b]

Again, we thank you from the bottom of your hearts for your donation. May you Suffer gloriously for your heartfelt giving.

@Melodie : Hey! What's this about eco-friendly?! I thought you were going over there to Exterminate everything! These new-age Mhaldorian childrenses these days, why, when I was a kid we walked to Eleusis to Exterminate everything uphill through 8 feet of snow and logs rolling down on us, along with arrows, heartseeds, and bee swarms, grumble grumble putter putter. Eco-friendly. Bal-met just come back and kill me now.

Nemutaur

Rip said:

Well, I have a small CTS problem from Achaea, and hunting in general.  Picking up gold manually, ie typing Get gold...sort of hurts, so I get gold on a slain denizen via a trigger.

I blame wunderSys as the auto looter...it grabs everything, gold, corpses...etc etc

Blame it all you like but there is a toggle to turn it off. If someone nicks my gold and offers to give it back I let it slide, it really isn't worth the hassle to stop your bashing run just to wait to get that gold back. But if they don't then I usually ask them why they didn't offer it back.

Most days you get an apology and the offer to give it back, then once again I let it slide. But if they reply that its not theft and are an asshole about gold I bashed, I'm an asshole back and will attempt to kill them for however long I feel is necessary to impart good bashing etiquette.