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Honestly, what's the deal with gold grabbing?

MasarykMasaryk Sangre PlainsMember Posts: 157 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
edited February 2015 in North of Thera
Regardless of the amount, 60 gold, 600 gold, it gets a bit frustrating with these people who are either auto-hunting or have triggers to pick up gold no matter the reason it is on the ground. It is in essence stealing, and though some people kindly return the gold, others are complete dickheads about it. Why is it that people think because they can make some simple ass trigger that returns "GET GOLD;PUT GOLD IN PACK", this entitles them to just take your gold while you are hunting? My most recent experience is case and point:

42) You told Jonesey: Your follower stole my gold.
43) Jonesey told You: Oh?
44) You told Jonesey: I would like it returned.
45) Jonesey told You: It was 175ish, you'll live.

Sure, I'll easily live without 175 gold, but the principle of the matter is, this should equate to cause, right? Either way, a douchebag is a douchebag is a douchebag...but you're right, I'll live.



CaoimhaenKyriellaKayeilCelusiaAjo
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Comments

  • SyriSyri Member Posts: 48 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    I have one for convenience so that if gold drops from something I kill(presumably), I grab it. I've only had a couple times where I've accidentally grabbed it from other people and I made a point to hand it back.

    Aalm hit it right on the head, though.
    AalmTrillianaMannimarAjo
  • JulesJules Member Posts: 2,169 @ - Epic Achaean
    I'm more annoyed that people are on cruise control (basically monitoring their screen while their char runs around or something awfully close to that), and have the nerve to not be *incredibly* apologetic when their bot acts like a bot.  The gold itself is miniscule unless you're a newbie or something, of course.   
    AalmTekk
  • RohaiRohai Member Posts: 451 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    I would agree, if not for group hunting. That would make dividing up the gold in a group a nightmare, because each person would have to keep track of how much they picked up individually and divide it, rather than just putting one person in charge of gold.
    TrillianaEilona
  • ElawienElawien Member Posts: 71 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Rohai said:
    I would agree, if not for group hunting. That would make dividing up the gold in a group a nightmare, because each person would have to keep track of how much they picked up individually and divide it, rather than just putting one person in charge of gold.
    That's where, say, there's a configurative option (quite like Imperian) where you can turn autolooting off.

    JulesAalmTrillianaHerenicus
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    This really wouldn't address the problem noted in the OP. The person came through with his personal auto-looter on, grabbed the gold dropped from someone else's kill, and didn't think twice about returning it. Obviously, 175 gold may not seem like a lot to most experienced players, and I doubt it is to Masaryk (considering he's 400 years old and only 50 ranks from dragon) but that's not the point. The point is that it's rude. If you're going to auto-loot then be aware of your surroundings. If you're going to be an ass about it, prepare to have people do the same thing to you (frequently - perhaps...for kicks). 
    Kyttin
  • NaverreNaverre Member Posts: 304 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Best way to autoloot:

    Trigger on your own killing of a denizen activates a group of triggers "Drops".
    "Drops" has stuff for gold, pearls, quest items, etc. Best to use SVO do for balance issues. Otherwise, just queue stuff.
    Trigger on your prompt to turn "Drops" off.
    Enjoy auto-looting without stealing other people's drops.
    TharvisSiduriYaeKyttin
  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Naverre said:
    Best way to autoloot:

    Trigger on your own killing of a denizen activates a group of triggers "Drops".
    "Drops" has stuff for gold, pearls, quest items, etc. Best to use SVO do for balance issues. Otherwise, just queue stuff.
    Trigger on your prompt to turn "Drops" off.
    Enjoy auto-looting without stealing other people's drops.
    that's just about the first thing I threw together after accidentally looting .. @Mephaos his gold, I think it was (though it does become an issue in group hunting where I'm designated gold divider)
    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

    AalmTrilliana
  • SarathaiSarathai Member Posts: 2,139 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Naverre said:
    Best way to autoloot:

    Trigger on your own killing of a denizen activates a group of triggers "Drops".
    "Drops" has stuff for gold, pearls, quest items, etc. Best to use SVO do for balance issues. Otherwise, just queue stuff.
    Trigger on your prompt to turn "Drops" off.
    Enjoy auto-looting without stealing other people's drops.
    That's how I set mine up originally - it queues "get gold" and "put gold in pack" (and other stuff) but only grabs the gold/shards/whatever on the condition that I have just retrieved a corpse, meaning if somebody else killed something it wouldn't fire. And I just turn it off if I'm in a group hunt.

    Generally I'll return gold if I do accidentally grab somebody else's for some reason, and from what I've found most people will do the same or will at least apologise/say "oops"/whatever. There are still the corner cases, though. I get much more irritated by kill-stealing. I get that sometimes it happens by accident, but when somebody walks into the room (usually shrouded), starts killing or waits until near death and jumps in to take it, walks out when it dies, and then proceeds to repeat that multiple times in a row even when asked to stop, I have to wonder if they're either doing it deliberately to annoy/instigate, or they're outright autobashing.
    - (Eleusis): Ellodin says, "The Fissure of Echoes is Sarathai's happy place."
    - With sharp, crackling tones, Kyrra tells you, "The ladies must love you immensely."
    - (Eleusian Ranger Techs): Savira says, "Most of the hard stuff seem to have this built in code like: If adventurer_hitting_me = "Sarathai" then send("terminate and selfdestruct")."
    - Makarios says, "Serve well and perish."
    - Xaden says, "Xaden confirmed scrub 2017."



  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,125 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I have mine set to take whatever gold drops after killing a denizen. On the corner case that I actually take gold that is not mine I will likely return it. Most people will do the same. 

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

    Bluef
  • ValdusValdus AustraliaMember Posts: 598 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Except assholes.


    Oooh. I called @Jonesey an asshole.

    Whatcha gonna do about it, bub? Wanna fite? I'll reck you right now. I swear on me mum.

    Viva la Bluef.
    RiashainBluefKyttin
  • KresslackKresslack Florida, United StatesMember Posts: 5,978 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited February 2015
    Masaryk said:
    Sure, I'll easily live without 175 gold, but the principle of the matter is, this should equate to cause, right? 

    There is no more 'cause'. If they were just passing and it was a trigger pick up, I don't see what the big deal is. It would be entirely different if someone was just following you around picking up gold as it dropped. Don't make a big deal out of one instances like this, because they usually don't happen to often and then you're the one that ends up looking like a jerk for throwing a fit over a few sovereigns. 


    Orzaansyn
  • ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited February 2015
    Masaryk said:
    Regardless of the amount, 60 gold, 600 gold, it gets a bit frustrating with these people who are either auto-hunting or have triggers to pick up gold no matter the reason it is on the ground. It is in essence stealing, and though some people kindly return the gold, others are complete dickheads about it. Why is it that people think because they can make some simple ass trigger that returns "GET GOLD;PUT GOLD IN PACK", this entitles them to just take your gold while you are hunting? My most recent experience is case and point:

    42) You told Jonesey: Your follower stole my gold.
    43) Jonesey told You: Oh?
    44) You told Jonesey: I would like it returned.
    45) Jonesey told You: It was 175ish, you'll live.

    Sure, I'll easily live without 175 gold, but the principle of the matter is, this should equate to cause, right? Either way, a douchebag is a douchebag is a douchebag...but you're right, I'll live.




    Time for a reality check.

    I get that it's frustrating, but perhaps you should re-evaluate your priorities.  If you're willing to get upset over losing a resource that took about 10 seconds (a single keypress with the most basic basic aliases) to earn, consider this:

    1) 100 gold is worth about $0.0032.  If this situation happens to you once a day, and you play 4 days a week, it would take you one year, five months, and 11 days for this to cost you $1 of gold.

    2) In the time it took you to make this thread, you could have bashed 10 times as much gold as you're upset about.

    3)  I'm sure you've played dozens of video games over your life that don't give you any long-term rewards for grinding - and yet they were still fun.

    4)  You waste hundreds of times as much gold by bashing inefficiently (not using queueing, handling shield properly, speed walking).  For a two-hour bashing run that nets 30,000 gold, but you did not get a Jera rune (for str classes), you have essentially stolen about 15-20 times as much gold from yourself.

    4b) I'd guess about 95% of the playerbase bashes below the level they "should" be bashing at, and bashes it about 30-50% as fast as they could/should be (measured in gold/exp per hour).  Even a minor improvement in this would result in exponentially faster gold income, to the point of being quite literally 10,000+ times as much gold as what you "lose" when someone grabs your gold, in the long run.  Are you going to claim PK cause on yourself for 10,000 instances of theft?

    5)  The difference this makes in your overall bashing efficiency is orders of magnitude smaller than the difference in class bashing speed.

    6)  You still got the experience.

    7)  Creating a beef with another player over a penny worth of gold is silly.

    8)  Would you give a dollar to a stranger who asked?  That's the equivalent of having someone snatch your gold literally hundreds of times.  Just accept it as a donation of a penny to a stranger, chalk it up for karma.

    9)  The situation created an opportunity for you to interact with a player in a game designed to interact with other players.  If you want to have the world all to yourself and have everything your way, go play Skyrim =).

    10) I just sent you 1 credit (for real).  Shall I receive a reaction 60 times more profuse (a 600 line OP and a thread dedicated to the subject), of gratitude?  If not, then perhaps reconsider how much you actually care about this.

    12) If a bashing area hasn't been cleared in a few hours, you'll make more gold in the run than you'd lose if the gold from several NPCs is "stolen" from you, without you ever actually noticing.

    13) If 35 people read this post (which takes about 1 minute), enough time I'll have burned approximately 210 times as much time as it took you to kill that denizen, not counting the time I spent writing it.

    14 (bonus!)  Deathknights used to drop like 2,200 gold.  Each.  If you want to be pissed at someone for f'king with your gold, be pissed at IRE for deflating gold to about 1/30th of its original price comparison compared to the USD.


    At the end of the day, this just boils down to ego.  Would you be upset if you and your friend at work simultaneously dropped your box of paper clips, and he accidentally grabbed one of yours while gathering them back up?  Would you get online and make a forum thread about what a travesty it was for you?  (paper clips cost about 1-2 times as much as the amount of gold you mentioned)

    If you would, then you're crazy, and if you wouldn't then you should reconsider the level of emotional response you seem to experience from the loss of that one tenth of one lesson's worth of gold.



    [  This isn't a reaction to just you, I've just been confused for years as to why people overreact so much to this  ]


    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
        SiduriZukoAedin
      1. ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
        edited February 2015
        Masaryk said:

        ...  but my point still stands that these actions seem to me senseless acts of just trying to piss someone off (that is, knowingly taking it and not returning, as opposed to accidentally looting it, and returning it).


        Considering that approximately zero people actually collect gold manually, and approximately everyone reaches a zombie-like state while bashing, and is usually encompassed in spam (perhaps even literally), when the heist occurs, I think it's safe to say that rarely if ever is it "intentional" (either grabbing it, or not returning it).

        Consider also the fact that the time it takes both the person to stop bashing to give you the gold and the time it takes you to stop to receive it costs you (both) more gold than you exchange.  I understand that for you this is a matter of principle, but it is a principle based purely on your desire to accumulate gold.  If your desire is in fact to accumulate gold, please see my above points 1-14.

        Also, on average, if everyone just ignored this when it happened (assuming it occurs accidentally), then theoretically it would even out to a zero loss for everyone (because you would occasionally get other people's gold too).

        "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


              Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
          1. KuyKuy Member Posts: 1,497 @@ - Legendary Achaean
            https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/45a994aa

            This was my favorite thing, both in PvE and PvP.  Unity was so helpful to prevent people from straggling off on the way to combat.
            [2:41:24 AM] Kenway: I bet you smell like evergreen trees and you could wrestle boreal mammals but they'd rather just cuddle you
            Sena
          2. ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean

            And yes, I'm super bored.  It was either go to work an hour early, or grievously overdo my response to your OP, and go to work 50 minutes early.  (about 3,125 "gold snatches" worth of income lost on my part).

            "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                  Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
              1. KyrraKyrra Sanctum of the SkyMember Posts: 4,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
                I'd just like to say that I'm one of those awesome people that collects gold manually. No triggers here!
                (D.M.A.): Cooper says, "Kyrra is either the most innocent person in the world, or the girl who uses the most innuendo seemingly unintentionally but really on purpose."

                Theris
              2. ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
                Kyrra said:
                I'd just like to say that I'm one of those awesome people that collects gold manually. No triggers here!

                "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                      Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
                    Zuko
                  1. RipRip Member Posts: 231 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
                    As a serpent picking up anything on a trigger is just bad for business.  Nothing ruins a good evade like grabbing that 10 gold from the ground.  I have my bashing stuff set up to grab gold when I am done killing everything in a giving room.

                    I have had people grab my gold, and they promptly return it, with apologizes or they will ask if I want it back and I generally say, no...As @Ernam stated it takes longed to actually get the gold back, than to walk into the next room and kill whatever is there.

                    @Masaryk, If you want to feel robbed...I will definitely help you out in-game.

                    HeroseErnamBluefCyla
                  2. RiashainRiashain Member Posts: 191 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
                    Manual gold collector here.
                    Theris
                  3. NoakNoak Member Posts: 144 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
                    @Masaryk ;has a point. If you dropped a quarter on accident and someone walked by picked it up while you were reaching down for it and put it in their pocket and moved on you'd think that person was an ass. That quarter doesn't make or break anyone's bank, but that person is still an ass.


                    KyriellaEilona
                  4. ErnamErnam Member Posts: 2,416 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
                    Noak said:
                    @Masaryk ;has a point. If you dropped a quarter on accident and someone walked by picked it up while you were reaching down for it and put it in their pocket and moved on you'd think that person was an ass. That quarter doesn't make or break anyone's bank, but that person is still an ass.


                    Yeah, but if a quarter fell out of your pocket and magically landed in someone else's pocket (a more fitting metaphor), would they still be an ass?

                    It isn't like people are running around trying to snatch your gold.  I would submit that 99.9% of the time this happens, it is automated, and about 50% of the time, they don't even notice.

                    "Our lives are not our own. We are bound to others, past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."


                          Manda  |  Godzilla  |  SLC
                      1. AalmAalm Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
                        edited February 2015
                        Ernam said:
                        Noak said:
                        @Masaryk ;has a point. If you dropped a quarter on accident and someone walked by picked it up while you were reaching down for it and put it in their pocket and moved on you'd think that person was an ass. That quarter doesn't make or break anyone's bank, but that person is still an ass.


                        Yeah, but if a quarter fell out of your pocket and magically landed in someone else's pocket (a more fitting metaphor), would they still be an ass?

                        It isn't like people are running around trying to snatch your gold.  I would submit that 99.9% of the time this happens, it is automated, and about 50% of the time, they don't even notice.
                        @Ernam , @Masaryk : You guys are both right in a sense. On the one hand, yes, a quarter is nothing. 170 gold is nothing. Raising your blood pressure over such a thing is silly in a lot of ways, especially since stress -- especially severe stress -- causes more damage health-wise than even a million of gold. A lot of the time we assign meaning to an act which is totally disproportionate to the importance that act should have.

                        But on the other hand, taking the 170 gold or a quarter is not really about 170 gold or a quarter. For example, I have a librarian's masters. You have a rich-as-hell neighborhood, and some lady that lives in a 2.4 million dollar house drives to the library on her Porsche SUV, dressed in her Gucci and Prada and whateverthehell else and proceeds to scream at the top of her lungs at the librarian over a 10 cent fine. Yeah, this happens. It's clear as day she doesn't care about 10 cents. But she didn't get her way for once, and that's a grave sin that can never be forgiven. Also, in road rage, does it really matter intrinsically who ends up 5 inches in front of whom at the next red light? And yet, people are doing crazy shit at 84 MPH on the highway to prove who has the bigger dick, and that can literally kill you.

                        Ernam is right in that logically the shit taken from you is rarely worth the reaction we give it. Masaryk is right in that such abuse often has nothing to do with the value of the shit taken from you and everything to do with power. When somebody wrongs you and tells you to blow it out your ass and especially if you can't do anything about it, it hurts you, and that has nothing to do with 170 gold or whatever.

                        /walloftext
                        AlcinaeNoakShibumi
                      2. NoakNoak Member Posts: 144 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
                        Ernam said:
                        Noak said:
                        @Masaryk ;has a point. If you dropped a quarter on accident and someone walked by picked it up while you were reaching down for it and put it in their pocket and moved on you'd think that person was an ass. That quarter doesn't make or break anyone's bank, but that person is still an ass.


                        Yeah, but if a quarter fell out of your pocket and magically landed in someone else's pocket (a more fitting metaphor), would they still be an ass?

                        It isn't like people are running around trying to snatch your gold.  I would submit that 99.9% of the time this happens, it is automated, and about 50% of the time, they don't even notice.
                        That's like saying it's acceptable that the person took your quarter because they didn't notice you or that you were reaching for it. I guess I'm not seeing how said person is not an ass because they are lazy/oblivious to their surroundings. :smile: 
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