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New Bashing Changes!

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  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,753 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014

    @Sena: This might give you a start with Duality damage.

    Strength  90 damage  151 damage
    10460590
    11492632
    12528678
    13562722
    14594764
    15624802
    16654840
    17680872
    18704904
    19726932
    20742954
    21758974
    22770988
    237781000
    PraxidesSena
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,954 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    What were the speed stats of those weapons? It seems to depend on more than just the damage stat.

  • AchillesAchilles Los AngelesMember Posts: 2,488 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sena said:

    What were the speed stats of those weapons? It seems to depend on more than just the damage stat.

    Soulpiercers 90 198 228

    Vorpal Broadswords 151 167 167

    image
  • ZukoZuko Member Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Wait so you're telling me... with soulpiercers and 15 strength, I could get 624 dps? Sounds a lot better than my 207 dps...

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,954 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    That's the damage of a single hit, not the DPS.

  • ZukoZuko Member Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Ahh ok, so it hasnt been divided yet
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Sena said:
    Stuneree said:

    As it stands, what would you currently consider to be the dominant bashing class, seeing as Monk might have been knocked out of the title?

    I'm still missing info on a lot of classes. I'm missing priest (I've only seen L2 mace), knights (don't know much about DSL damage now), shaman, and bard. Besides that, the dominant classes are the ones that seem broken/overpowered right now, and will probably be adjusted down to more reasonable levels. So I can't really say yet.

    Daeir said:
    When was burst changed to be usable on npcs? Or has that always been the case?

    It was always the case, it was just useless before (unless you didn't have a sword).

    I came up with about 380ish dps from a lv3 mace 14 strength.

    But I don't have th actual numbers anymore.

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,954 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Are you sure it wasn't 308, not 380? ~308 is what it looks like to me (L3 mace, 14 str, nimble).

  • ZukoZuko Member Posts: 730 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Im pretty bummed, I think monk got hit too hard.. my dps is 210... Which is unreal, saying 

    You are holding:
          figurine218664      a featureless ice figurine
          gem349062           a gem of cloaking
          bucket382741        a barnacle-encrusted bucket
          vial321793          an elegant diamond vial
          vial322798          an elegant diamond vial


    You are wearing:
          bracelet460551      a Ceylonese bracelet
          ring384494          a ring of endurance
          ring232569          a Ceylonese ring
          girdle75658         a Girdle of the Titans
          pendant29491        a blood pendant
          wings395640         a pair of eagle's wings
          knuckles308228      brass knuckles
          amulet278204        an Amulet of the Will
          crown127017         an Intellect Crown
          talisman316938      an Aldar talisman
          collar146703        a Collar of Diablerie
    A total of 16 items were shown.

    Strength: 12  Dexterity: 11  Constitution: 17  Intelligence: 13

  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Sena said:

    Are you sure it wasn't 308, not 380? ~308 is what it looks like to me (L3 mace, 14 str, nimble).

    Unless the balance time was wrong it was 380ish. but my power went out and the notepad got closed

  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Zuko said:
    Im pretty bummed, I think monk got hit too hard.. my dps is 210... Which is unreal, saying 

    You are holding:
          figurine218664      a featureless ice figurine
          gem349062           a gem of cloaking
          bucket382741        a barnacle-encrusted bucket
          vial321793          an elegant diamond vial
          vial322798          an elegant diamond vial


    You are wearing:
          bracelet460551      a Ceylonese bracelet
          ring384494          a ring of endurance
          ring232569          a Ceylonese ring
          girdle75658         a Girdle of the Titans
          pendant29491        a blood pendant
          wings395640         a pair of eagle's wings
          knuckles308228      brass knuckles
          amulet278204        an Amulet of the Will
          crown127017         an Intellect Crown
          talisman316938      an Aldar talisman
          collar146703        a Collar of Diablerie
    A total of 16 items were shown.

    Strength: 12  Dexterity: 11  Constitution: 17  Intelligence: 13

    Double post but try respecing to strength. should add some boost in there.

    Kerria
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,753 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sena said:

    What were the speed stats of those weapons? It seems to depend on more than just the damage stat.

    That's a bit weird. I only have the two sets of weapons, but happy to help with testing if you or somebody else can provide others.

    About half of those tests were without nimble but looking at the numbers I don't think that has had any effect.

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,954 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014

    It would probably be helpful to see single slashes with those swords, then single slash (just to see if having chivalry matters for single slashes) and DSL with 1/1/1 practice rapiers. All at 12 strength, if possible.

  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,276 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Evileye bleed is terrible still. Took over 20 2x bleed stares to kill a Ganeve, with multiple crits, 14 int and transcendent evileye.
    Valaria
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014

    Decided to try my hand at BM hunting again after not playing Cynlael for awhile... Almost a minute to kill a single mhun knight with Mir drawslashes... Meanwhile Shin burst takes like 1/3 the time.

    Blademaster using magic to hunt with. Fuck this. IRE pls.

    CronoErnamPraxides
  • AntoniusAntonius Member Posts: 4,753 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sena said:

    It would probably be helpful to see single slashes with those swords, then single slash (just to see if having chivalry matters for single slashes) and DSL with 1/1/1 practice rapiers. All at 12 strength, if possible.

    Where can I get practice rapiers from?

  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,954 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    The Weapons Gallery in Delos.


  • ValariaValaria Member Posts: 400 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    i guess evDaeir said:

    Evileye bleed is terrible still. Took over 20 2x bleed stares to kill a Ganeve, with multiple crits, 14 int and transcendent evileye.

    i guess it is truly tiresome to stare someone so hard to hope their eyes will look somewhere and play dead. Although, i gonna agree that it might need improvement. *STARE*


    2015/01/12 Tecton, the Terraformer has bestowed His divine favour upon you. It will last for approximately 1 Achaean month.
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Feels so weird, since deadeye bleed bleed has been the bashing attack in Imperian for as long as I can remember :/



    It's shit there, too.

  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014

    ANNOUNCE NEWS #4165                                     (07/16/2014 at 16:47)  
    From   : Mortori
    To     : Everyone
    Subject: Minor PvE Adjustments
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Just a couple of small tweaks to adjust some problems with PvE damage:

     - Fixed a bug that would occasionally cause non-doubleslash weapon attacks against denizens to do half damage.

     - The damage done to denizens by Burst in Shindo has been decreased to bring it in line with other secondary
    hunting attacks.

    Penned by My hand on the 7th of Chronos, in the year 659 AF.



    Aaaaaand, just like that, BM goes from one of the top classes, to being one of the absolute shittiest. Couldn't be more glad I stopped playing Cynlael. Shin burst already had one of the slowest balances of all attacks in the game.


    Blujixapug
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    No class with Mir can ever be one of the absolute shittiest :/

    NimCynlael
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,954 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Cynlael said:
    Shin burst already had one of the slowest balances of all attacks in the game.

    It's the same as decay, warp, educe iron, firelash, staffcast, and (without reflexes) all metamorphosis attacks, except for the fact that a blademaster isn't going to have quick-witted (but then a lot of alchemists and apostates won't either). Being slow is one of the downsides of nearly every eq attack, probably because diadem exists.

    Anedhel
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014
    Anedhel said:

    No class with Mir can ever be one of the absolute shittiest :/

    Trans'd avoidance, Mir stance, toughness and a ~58cutting resist ringmail. Generic Vertani guard still hits me for ~800 per hit. Elite Keepers around 1700 with their dual strike. (No, not complaining. Just giving numbers for your silly statement) - Now tell me how much you get hit for as a Runewarden, on top of your DSLs doing what? Like 2.5-3x the damage a drawslash in Mir does, and at faster speeds. Lol.


    Edit: My Alchemist who isn't Trans'd avoidance even bashes better than BM now. God damn some of these changes are questionable.

  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014

    Edit: Nvm. Yes, life is hard.

  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014

    Mir isn't a straight up bonus. It comes at reduced damage and attack speed. Unless you can afford to bash in Arash, you generally wanna go with Sanya (unless the damage changes has made it so Thyr's more frequent crit chances outweigh its comparative damage penalty). You'd only use Mir if you're bashing things slightly out of your league, and you want to take it nice and slowly.

    Burst is an exception to that (as far as I understand, aside from Sanya's Shin gain/cost modifiers and Mir's damage resistance, stance modifiers affect only Two Arts abilities, meaning you get the damage resistance but no penalties when using Burst in Mir), and thus Mir+Burst was probably pretty great bashing during the five or so days burst was actually better than drawslash. Since it sounds like they've made it worse again, I wouldn't call that better in any fashion.

    Also if you're getting into arties, there's the whole fact that blademasters can't use Shields of Absorption. I think Mir was partially meant to balance that, although bashing in Mir is going to be a less-than-ideal experience.

  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 4,829 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Bashing for BM isn't utterly terrible right now, at least for me. Granted I do have some arties to help out.

    Burst was nice those few days that it was high in damage, but low in EQ. Most of the time, when a denizen shields drawslash speed alone (assuming Mir, Sanya, Arash, or Doya) isn't fast enough to kill inside of one shield balance. Which slows down bashing. In Thyr, I was able to drawslash and use Burst as a finisher, and it was working quite nicely. I'm sure this isn't an issue as far as the mechanics go, it was just really nice to not have to fight shield for two or three rounds to get a kill. Making Burst go through shield would be fun, given it's less than appealing damage now.

    I wouldn't say Mir+Burst was that good, because you were still losing speed. In Mir, I drawslash about 2.5 balance time, Burst is averaging out to a flat 4. For ever two Bursts you could have slashed three times.

    Overall, it is fine the way it is now. With Mir you can still tank reasonably well, and if you can handle the damage Arash is always a fun time bashing. Blademaster isn't supposed to be knight-level tanking, and I don't believe it should be either. A bit of squishy-ness isn't a bad thing.



    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    Anedhel
  • CaladbolgCaladbolg Campbell County TNMember Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited July 2014
    Sena said:

    It would probably be helpful to see single slashes with those swords, then single slash (just to see if having chivalry matters for single slashes) and DSL with 1/1/1 practice rapiers. All at 12 strength, if possible.

    I have some extra rapiers just laying around. but I can't get lower than 16 strength



    Atalkez said:

    Bashing for BM isn't utterly terrible right now, at least for me. Granted I do have some arties to help out.

    Burst was nice those few days that it was high in damage, but low in EQ. Most of the time, when a denizen shields drawslash speed alone (assuming Mir, Sanya, Arash, or Doya) isn't fast enough to kill inside of one shield balance. Which slows down bashing. In Thyr, I was able to drawslash and use Burst as a finisher, and it was working quite nicely. I'm sure this isn't an issue as far as the mechanics go, it was just really nice to not have to fight shield for two or three rounds to get a kill. Making Burst go through shield would be fun, given it's less than appealing damage now.

    I wouldn't say Mir+Burst was that good, because you were still losing speed. In Mir, I drawslash about 2.5 balance time, Burst is averaging out to a flat 4. For ever two Bursts you could have slashed three times.

    Overall, it is fine the way it is now. With Mir you can still tank reasonably well, and if you can handle the damage Arash is always a fun time bashing. Blademaster isn't supposed to be knight-level tanking, and I don't believe it should be either. A bit of squishy-ness isn't a bad thing.

    Personally I found Paladin bashing better than lv3 band Blademaster before because of how much tankier I felt, even though I dropped Con spec for strength spec.

    On the other hand I was also running with 12 strength as bm usually, and mir stance before made your dps pretty bad.

    Also Mir stance is only a 15%  damage reduction with runes not stacking with it to well, your better off not being in mir stance and getting runes about 100% of the time. (Blessings too :D)


    Seftin said:

    Why don't they just post the DPS that each class can do on the forums as part of the new changes?

    To many different factors in bashing, Such as strength/int differences,weapon stats.

    A Knight with Longswords is going to have a bad time compared to rapiers. (Assuming same range of stats)

    Plus personally I don't find it fair for x class to be nerfed into the ground because at +3 strength artie and lv3 Class artie making it dominate when the people who don't want do drop 3600 credits into the game at the start can't pull anything.

    ShirszaeNimZukoMorthif
  • AtalkezAtalkez Member Posts: 4,829 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Caladbolg said:
    Sena said:

    It would probably be helpful to see single slashes with those swords, then single slash (just to see if having chivalry matters for single slashes) and DSL with 1/1/1 practice rapiers. All at 12 strength, if possible.

    I have some extra rapiers just laying around. but I can't get lower than 16 strength



    Atalkez said:

    Bashing for BM isn't utterly terrible right now, at least for me. Granted I do have some arties to help out.

    Burst was nice those few days that it was high in damage, but low in EQ. Most of the time, when a denizen shields drawslash speed alone (assuming Mir, Sanya, Arash, or Doya) isn't fast enough to kill inside of one shield balance. Which slows down bashing. In Thyr, I was able to drawslash and use Burst as a finisher, and it was working quite nicely. I'm sure this isn't an issue as far as the mechanics go, it was just really nice to not have to fight shield for two or three rounds to get a kill. Making Burst go through shield would be fun, given it's less than appealing damage now.

    I wouldn't say Mir+Burst was that good, because you were still losing speed. In Mir, I drawslash about 2.5 balance time, Burst is averaging out to a flat 4. For ever two Bursts you could have slashed three times.

    Overall, it is fine the way it is now. With Mir you can still tank reasonably well, and if you can handle the damage Arash is always a fun time bashing. Blademaster isn't supposed to be knight-level tanking, and I don't believe it should be either. A bit of squishy-ness isn't a bad thing.

    Personally I found Paladin bashing better than lv3 band Blademaster before because of how much tankier I felt, even though I dropped Con spec for strength spec.

    On the other hand I was also running with 12 strength as bm usually, and mir stance before made your dps pretty bad.

    Also Mir stance is only a 15%  damage reduction with runes not stacking with it to well, your better off not being in mir stance and getting runes about 100% of the time. (Blessings too :D)


    Seftin said:

    Why don't they just post the DPS that each class can do on the forums as part of the new changes?

    To many different factors in bashing, Such as strength/int differences,weapon stats.

    A Knight with Longswords is going to have a bad time compared to rapiers. (Assuming same range of stats)

    Plus personally I don't find it fair for x class to be nerfed into the ground because at +3 strength artie and lv3 Class artie making it dominate when the people who don't want do drop 3600 credits into the game at the start can't pull anything.

    I bash in Thyr (more critical chance) or Arash. Mir is for tanking 3+ mob rooms.



    You hug Aurora compassionately.
    NaverreNim
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