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New Bashing Changes!
Discuss here!
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Did they seriously just nerf bop damage? FFS!
It's a sign, don't leave us
Meow, meow, etc.
Eiredhel's Family Tree
there goes my shaman bashing.. and right when i come back to the game too
bug The dexterity change for serpent garrote speed does not scale wide enough and is too slow. With 19 dexterity the average balance time is 3
.3-3.5 seconds. With 16 dexterity it was 3.1-3.2s. A "decent" forged whip with 180 speed gave me around 2.8 seconds garrote before these changes. Therefore I think the balance should start at the 3 second range for 11
12 dex, and scale as low as 2.2s for 17+ dex (which I believe was the L3 lash speed). Also - because dexterity and not whip speed stats affect garrote now, it should be possible for serpents to trade their artefact
lashes for the equivalent artefact whip (they are the same prices at each level) and then stop selling the lashes because if dexterity is the only scaling factor, the lashes no longer have any value.
Thank you. Your bug, bug #13611, has been submitted.
Edit: these figures were not extensively tested to get them exact. Serpents - please do some of your own tests on this. 3+ second garrotes at 19 dexterity should NOT be happening. that's waaaaaaay too slow.
Wooo hoo for end game bashing being "drastically decreased". Are you serious?
We bash for hundreds and hundreds of hours, and now the main benefit of that bashing (faster bashing/gold generating) has been "drastically decreased".
Date: 07/10/2014 at 23:20
From: Mortori
To : Everyone
Subj: Hunting/PvE Changes
There has been a wide range of denizen hunting effectiveness across all of Achaea's classes, with some classes able to do more than twice as much damage at Transcendent skill ranks than others. We've taken some time to adjust some of the numbers of the various abilities that work against denizens to bring them all to more similar levels.
There were two main goals that we set out to accomplish with this project:
1: All classes should be able to do similar amounts of damage to denizens at both low skill ranks and high skill ranks.
2: As adventurers spend lessons in skills, their hunting effectiveness should increase.
With regards to point #2, most skills already offered a damage boost as your rank in that skill went up, but some did not. For example, the Firelash ability for Magi and Sylvans always did the same amount of damage from the point that it was learned at a low skill rank until it was replaced by the Staffcast or Thornrend ability.
Here's a summary of the changes that we've made:
Occultists/Apostates
----------------------
- Occultist hunting damage through the Warp ability in Occultism and the Decay ability in Necromancy have been slightly decreased at low skill ranks and slightly increased at high skill ranks.
- The damage increase offered by increased skill rank in Occultism and Necromancy for Warp and Decay respectively is now calculated by the number of lessons you have learned in the skill rather than your current rank. This means that spending 15 lessons in Occultism will now increase the damage, whereas previously you had to learn up to a new rank (like Skilled -> Gifted) to see any damage increase.
Monks
-------
- Monk hunting damage through Tekura combos has been moderately decreased at low skill ranks and substantially decreased at high skill ranks. Monks were the preeminent hunting class that did not rely on a highly draining defense (like reflexes or swiftcurse), so they needed to be brought down a bit to equal them out with other classes.
- Tekura attacks will now always use your strength to calculate damage bonuses, rather than randomly using a stat (or no stat at all).
- Fixed the KILL command for monks so that it will always try to create a full Tekura combo at all skill ranks.
Druids
--------
- Metamorphosis attacks (bite, claw, maul, etc) will now do slightly more hunting damage at low skill ranks and slightly more damage at high skill ranks.
- The damage increase for Metamorphosis attacks against denizens offered by increased skill rank in Metamorophosis is now calculated by the number of lessons you have learned in the skill.
- Groves Quarterstaff stab attack will now do a flat amount of damage against denizens, rather than a variable amount dependent on the denizen's health.
Serpents
----------
- Garrote in Subterfuge will now be learned at a much lower skill rank, and will be used as the primary Serpent hunting attack at all skill levels, rather than starting with Sumac in Venom. This allows Serpents to focus on one skill to improve their hunting ability, rather than having different primary attacks in different skills.
- The pygmy trials for new adventurers will now teach new Serpents about Subterfuge and Garrote, rather than Venom and Sumac.
- New Serpents will now be provided with a basic whip during the pygmy trials for new adventurers.
- The damage against denizens done by Garrote in Subterfuge has been substantially increased at high skill ranks. In addition, the replacement of Garrote instead of using Sumac results in a substantial increase of hunting damage at low skill ranks.
- The damage against denizens done by Garrote in Subterfuge will scale with the user's skill in Subterfuge and the damage stat on the whip, but the damage will not be modified by any racial statistics. Instead, the balance cost of the attack will be modified by the user's dexterity (similar to dexterity's effect on Doublestab balance times). Higher dexterity = faster attacks.
Priests
---------
- The damage against denizens done by Smite in Spirituality has been moderately increased at high skill ranks.
Magi/Sylvans
--------------
- The damage against denizens done by Firelash in Elementalism (for both Magi and Sylvan) has been slightly decreased at low skill ranks, but substantially increased at higher skill ranks. The damage done will now also scale with the number of lessons that have been spent on the skill.
- The damage against denizens done by Staffcast in Elementalism has been substantially increased at all skillranks, and the damage done will now also scale with the number of lessons that have been spent on the skill.
- The damage against denizens done by Thornrend in Elementalism will now scale with the number of lessons that have been spent on the skill.
Shamans
---------
- The damage against denizens done by Bleed in Curses has been substantially decreased at both low and high skill ranks. Bleed damage against denizens is now also greatly decreased if the Shaman has the Swiftcurse defense up. Previously, Swiftcurse doubled a Shaman's effective damage, making them by far the most damaging class while Swiftcurse was up. It now still provides a very sizeable bonus, but the decreased buffed damage allows us to also balance the Shaman with more Bleed damage when Swiftcurse is not up.
Pirates
---------
- The damage against denizens done by cutlasses and bludgeons via the Brawling skill has been moderately increased at high skill ranks. These attacks no longer have a chance to miss against denizens.
Jesters
---------
- The damage against denizens done by the Bop ability in Pranks has been slightly increased at low skill ranks and slightly decreased at high skill ranks.
Bards
-------
- Swashbuckling Accentato will now do damage against denizens based on the damage done by the weapon strike, rather than a variable amount dependent on the user's maximum health. This results in a substantial increase in damage done against denizens by Bards with low maximum health, but a moderate decrease in damage done by Bards who have high maximum health.
Blademasters
--------------
- The damage against denizens done by Drawslash in Twoarts has been slightly decreased at low skill ranks and substantially decreased at high skill ranks. Blademasters were second only to Monks in unmodified hunting damage, and therefore needed to be brought down a bit to be in line with the other classes.
Alchemists
------------
- The damage against denizens done by Iron in Alchemy has been slightly decreased at low skill ranks and slightly increased at high skill ranks. The damage will now also scale for each lesson spent in Alchemy, rather than only increasing at each new skill rank (like Skilled -> Gifted).
Paladins/Infernals/Runewardens
--------------------------------
- The damage against denizens done by weapon attacks that rely on skill in Weaponry or Chivalry have been drastically increased at low skill ranks and substantially increased at high skill ranks. For Infernals, the damage done by weapon attacks should now be competitive with the damage done by Decay in Necromancy, allowing them a smoother progression in improving their ability to harm denizens.
- The damage bonus offered by the Swordplay ability in Chivalry will now no longer offer a larger damage bonus for shortswords wielded in the left hand. Both hands should offer the same damage bonus now.
Dragons
---------
- The damage against denizens done by Gut, Incantation, and Blast in Dragoncraft has been drastically decreased.
- Becase Dragon hunting damage has been decreased so much, Dragons will now receive full experience when killing denizens.
- Dragoncraft Gut will now always use your strength to calculate damage bonuses, rather than randomly using a stat (or no stat at all).
General Changes/Fixes
-----------------------
- The damage against denizens done by PUNCH, KICK, and HEADSLAM will now be a flat amount of damage, rather than a variable amount of damage based on the denizen's maximum health.
- Weapon attacks against denizens should now always take the damage type of the weapon into account when calculating damage bonuses, rather than sometimes using a random racial stat to modify damage.
- The Firekin racial trait ability to breathe fire will now no longer be modified by any racial stat, rather than sometimes randomly using a stat.
Penned by My hand on the 20th of Miraman, in the year 659 AF.
Don't forget they nerfed the gold drops a bit ago too.
Double whammy
I'm just going to say this:
Whoever thought increasing a priest's smite damage at trans and decreasing a jesters bop at trans has to be confused about how jesters bash.
@Cathy - do you mean 'a bit ago' as in like...4-5 years ago when they were nerfed, or were they nerfed again after that? (Sidhe used to be ~23k per round, it was around 11k last I tracked it roughly 6 months ago).
@Cooper - I thought they nerfed gold drops earlier this RL year.
Album of Bluef during her time in Achaea
Paging @Sena for new numbers.
My previous post regarding garrote speed affects adventurers only. Garroting denizens is much much faster. So it seems lashes still have value afterall which is great. I still think the garrote vs. adventurer speed should be faster, however.
Serpent damage op
That will probably take a while, since it requires the help of other people. If anyone wants to help, or just find out how much their attacks do now, I can provide a falcon for testing.
Alternatively, someone could give me 2600 credits so I can trans every bashing skill and test them all (including the lesson scaling, so I'd have numbers from newbie to trans) with just the help of one person with a falcon.
I haven't tried anything out (so I hope this isn't too reactionary) but I'm not a strong advocate of nerfs using the words "drastic and greatly". Personally, if X is found to be a lot better than Y I think the solution is to bring Y up to X and not X down to Y. People who have been using a class for a while are going to find these changes miserable while other ecstatic.
Ffs....12 years of bashing and still not dragon and now bm get a nerf in the arse. *weeps* Should offer a free class change.
Drastically decreasing dragon damage or basing it on strength... well.... that's depressing as shit.
Right in the feels. I assumed since nobody else brought it up that it had to be true, Pirates were a verifiable class, got super excited... and then reality happened.
Blujixapug said:
Plus side, at least Magi is a better basher now?
aka the Starcraft: Broodwar approach, not the Starcraft 2 failure.
Nowhere in the post did it say that a whip's speed stat doesn't affect garrote speed. It seems that if you have a lash, you will attack faster but not hit as hard (as damage seems to make more of a difference now?).
Lash with high dex should be very quick, I'd imagine. They said the damage stat matters more now, but not that speed doesn't. Just my two cents.
Tbh it makes sense that gut is fully strength based now.
Lol free class change.
Lots of jerky knees all around, but this thread is suspiciously bereft of buttery monk tears.
Free class change would have been nice, please consider Divine.
Anybody have any idea what the best bashing classes are, top 3 maybe? All I know is Im really slow as a monk now T_T
There we are.
Since there are currently no numbers at all available, there's no way to tell. I suspect runewarden will probably be in the top 3 though, with good rapiers.