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New Bashing Changes!

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  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Zuko said:
    @Sarapis What about either A.) When you obtain the full spectrum of dragon colors through talismans (Elder dragon), you become as powerful as dragons were before and talismans cease to drop when hunting in dragonform?

    You get a bashing dragon breath ability. Unfortunately using it literally melts away any talismans or gold or other things the creatures would have carried, and leaves their corpse as useless ash containing no essence. The energy is also too strong to let any shards materialize from the plane of Nishnatoba (I swear that's the fluff that was going on, but it's been a while).

    However the ash can be used to make potash and stuff, letting you eventually command a score of dwarves to make you a wonderful crystal cathedral. Also soap, whatever that is.

    BluefArcion
  • CarmellCarmell Eastern WashingtonMember Posts: 473 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    edited July 2014

    My gut just did 200 dps on Caladbolg's falcon.  No strength or int artifacts for me.  I've got just defensive arties right now.  Guess i'm going to have to buy strength arties

    BluefValaria
  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 458 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Lowering the dragon bashing speed -will- drop the inflation rate. The problem being that prices for credits are already high and it will take a long time for them to drop because gold sinks don't really exist outside of boats, though upcoming tradeskill changes might change that.

    I would definitely like to see dragons get major traits though, if their bashing dps is similar to other classes baseline, then it will fall behind lesserform just because they don't have access to lucky/aim to kill. It would make classes that rely on other stats than con/str worse in dragon than classes that do, but I think the benefit still would outweigh that.

    That said, dragon survivability is still huge compared to lesserform so their is a significant advantage to using it for lightly artied players, especially for knights, monks and blademasters who can't use SoA in lesser.

  • ArditiArditi Member Posts: 841 @ - Epic Achaean

    I also think this is probably the end of a metric ton of work of cleaning up the PvE code: Accentato damage being based on maximum health rather than any other appreciable stat? Sure. I'll buy that as "working as intended".

    There's room for tweaks and alterations.  I understand the bitching on both sides of the equation, but it's not like this is a permanent, say, Shallam-sinking thing.

    Corr
  • AccipiterAccipiter Member Posts: 458 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Melodie said:
     Why shouldn't my (or another int-based class) reward be as awesome as it is for a knight, or a blademaster?

    Well it wasn't before anyway. Str based classes who got dragon had a better return because the arties they had that boosted Str also benefited dragonform. The form is the same for everyone, the difference is that other things you buy might have more value because they affect both dragon and lesser. A BM with a SoA for dragon bashing gets substantially less utility from it than say an occultist, simply because it is less valuable to have it while in lesser for a BM while the occultist gets full use out of it either way.

    Allowing major traits in dragon would mean than classes that take nimble already would have a slightly better dragonform for bashing than those classes that don't, because the major bashing attack takes balance, but there are still skills in dragoncraft that rely on eq so other classes would still get use out of the eq-quickening trait, especially with the eq-quickening artifact that you probably have already too.

  • DraekarDraekar Member Posts: 290 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Lesserform balancing is bloody great!

    Bit meh about the dragon changes, but can see why it was done. I can't see it changing the in game economy much but I guess with it less viable to earn credits in game it should boost sales a bit and keep Achaea going and the coders paid.

    Those who only have the option or prefer to grind are just going to have to quit your orgs, stop talking to people, and auto-bash more hours a day!  :p

  • TahquilTahquil Member Posts: 4,340 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Yes, but how does this affect fishing?

    SultaniUtianima
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tahquil said:

    Yes, but how does this affect fishing?

    It's still really, really dull.


    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
    SarapisKayeil
  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,362 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I really like fishing. At least I like the concept of fishing. I wish someone would break me into the fishing mold, so I could too be a fisherman of excellent girth.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    Tahquil
  • DaeirDaeir AustraliaMember Posts: 6,283 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Always thought Lorielan was a bit fishy. Makes sense now.

    TahquilSynbios
  • VortokVortok Member Posts: 9 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited July 2014
    Sarapis said:

    @Saeva Because the ability of some players to generate outsized amounts of gold compared to newbies makes newbies inherently poor, and that problem gets worse the larger the disparity gets.

    If Dragons can generate more gold, and they want to sell that gold for credits, then the supply of gold is increased and the value of gold will drop. So, those people have to sell more gold to get the same amount of credits, and it's just a wash. Econ 101.

    A worthwhile concern, I can respect wanting Dragon to not be head and shoulders better at PvE than all other options.  The thing is, Dragons kill so fast because they're high level and thus have a massive crit rate (and there's a number of classes that possess a similar level of tankiness).  Crits are a far (far) bigger contributing factor to 'area clear times' than the Dragon 'class' itself and the dps output it may have on paper before those crits factors in.

    Level 99+ people hunting in lesserform will still clear stuff incredibly fast and generate gold from bashing waaaaay faster than newbies.  So I don't see specifically adjusting Dragon abilities (so severely) accomplishing a great deal in terms of addressing the income disparity between high level and low level characters.

    I also understand that it can be rather tricky to find the right balance.  I'll assume that the overall goal is to keep Dragon a relevant, strong choice while also ensuring that lesserform isn't obsolete for PvE the second someone hits 99.  Situational usefulness, depending on the class.


    In any case, it's refreshing to see such an open door policy/interaction from the admins.  Kudos for that.

    Ernam
  • CynlaelCynlael Member Posts: 3,257 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Aside from the fact that Gut was hitting literally almost double the damage of any other attack, so you only needed like a crushing critical at most to kill most things.

  • TalysinTalysin Member Posts: 575 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    I used to hunt in lesser all the time. Easier for me to fight if I get jumped!

    Change bop back!

  • JacenJacen Member Posts: 2,305 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I think this change isn't necessarily bad, it just came in early. Would much rather have seen these changes come in alongside the new bashing system that Aringar is working on. As it is, several classes have to live with a nerf in a very tedious, boring portion of the game, at least until some new bashing changes are introduced to liven things up.

    As far as dragons: its a reward for a massive amount of PvE, that is (or has been) intended to make you considerably better at PvE. Obviously you get the higher base stats still, but I think it would at least make sense for dragons to have the highest bashing DPS, even if its not by a huge margin.

    image
    BluefKarai
  • MorsulMorsul Member Posts: 111 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    I got to say, the change kind of hurts as a shaman. We were like a glass cannon, now much less cannon-y.


    Compared with Runewarden, for example, they get better armor to mitigate incoming damage while, from the looks of it, we do the same amount of damage.

    JacenBluef
  • KlendathuKlendathu Eye of the StormMember Posts: 3,178 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Did talismans drop rates get reduced as well? Almost all of the outriders in Istarion, not one dragon talisman amongst them :'(


    Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
    BluefKarai
  • RileyRiley Member Posts: 323 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent

    OK, I have one question, Accentato is now based on weapon damage, is it also based on Int since it is a magick attack?

    image
  • MortoriMortori Member Posts: 3 ✭✭ - Stalwart
    edited July 2014

    Accentato damage against denizens is not modified by any racial statistic (to prevent double-dipping).

    In response to a few other comments/questions, I'm going to be spending some time today looking at weapon damages. I suspect that there's a breakdown in the normalization calculations for weapons with high speed stats which will require some adjustment, and I'm also going to see about tweaking some of the numbers with doubleslash vs single weapon attacks.

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