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New Bashing Changes!

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  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited July 2014
    Strata said:

    Bluef said:

    PK and Dragons are really apples and oranges. I'd also argue that someone who is awesome at PK in Achaea has earned certain rights and privileges that other players can't access (ie, a different form of consistent experience gain and often membership in the Achaean Combat Council, which may in fact help make their PK better than others through the information and interactions they have access to).

    Just because one is heavily involved in PK does not mean they're ACC. Personally I'm not in it, nor do I want to be. I have learned everything I know through practice and reading what is available both in game and on forums/pastebin. Saying PKers and Dragons have "earned certain rights and privileges" doesn't make sense. They have earned knowledge and experience, and in the case of Dragon - a new skillset and a language.

    Teleporting across the world might be slightly faster than using wings, a vibrating stick, or speed walking but honestly for the time it takes to dragonform and then travel that route I might as well hoof it - and I do. About the only real advantage is when traveling to Ulangi because you don't have to pay the initial ferry. Maybe if there were more Gare exits this would be a more significant class advantage. 

    Then go earn something. Get Elder Dragon - which you should be able to do now that they've made things slightly more tedius for all the basement dwellers who are auto-looping the talisman areas 24/7.

    I was playing long before dragon class skills came out, so I recognize that what Dragon means is defined by the Garden. I also acknowledge that you may be tweaking things as you go along. But at this point I don't see any significant reason right now for my other characters or anyone else to invest time in bashing to dragon (or beyond 90 for that matter) or, conversely, using dragon for bashing. I hope that changes. 

    From what I've seen and read here, it sounds like what they're doing is a great thing. They're essentially leveling the playing field for all classes. And hopefully less unartied Monk/Runie/Shaman rolling to dragon in 2 IRL weeks and then being used as credit factories for peoples' main characters.

    This is also going to possibly affect house influences. Can't speak for other classes because I don't have 50 alts, but I think these changes are great for serpent houses because now serpent hunting is actually fun. Serpents in my house would often say "I'm quitting the house so I can go monk and bash to dragon." or "What arties do I need to PK to dragon? Hunting is too slow. A lupine? That's too expensive for me, I'm going monk. Bye." Now they're given a whip as novices and hunting is actually enjoyable instead of "this is so boring... it takes me 3 minutes of hit and run to kill one sidhe knight."

    This is all anecdotal of course, but I've been bashing steadily to 101 (achieved it this week) for the last RL year. I hunt a few hours a day, at most - but that is really all I should need to put into hunting at this point in the game. 

    I definitely don't earn mud-inflating gold from that hunting either, and as far as talismans go I don't know who is gathering these up but it isn't me. The drop rate definitely seems to have be diminished again recently because for 14-21 hours of bashing I've received a total of 3 talismans this week (and all of those weren't even ones I needed). 

    If the current drop rate I've seen continues as far as my hunting goes, I project that I'll have Elder in about 2 more RL years (yay?) because, again, I don't make the gold necessary to buy huge quantities of these things. Then again, that is assuming I don't keep getting stuck with pieces I already possess and which no one else needs because they are so very common. Hm, yeah. Better make that 3 RL years.

    I agree the lesserform changes are great. I think it definitely will help Houses in the long run and it may cut down on people rolling into dragon in 2 IRL weeks - both because hunting is a little more level and because who the cares about becoming a tank that can tear into and leap across the veil (especially when the places you can access are just as easily reached by other modes of travel). 

  • MishgulMishgul ROTHERHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMember Posts: 5,378 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Is this right place to ask for a cool city specific secondary skillset for dragons, so that you can get cool city based benefits for being a dragon and party of a city. Like nothing ground breaking. Being able to summon city flavoured minions that wash your feet and a city based description add on, and customise some of your dragon messages to city aligned messages. That kind of thing.

    -

    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
    MelodieArcionHalos
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,404 Achaean staff

    @Mishgul That's not going to happen, no. 

  • DatriusDatrius Member Posts: 531 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited July 2014
    So, I know you guys are all going on about the dragons right now. But this thread is for everyone (Screw you, haters, yes it is :P). Has anyone been able to test the matter of Serpent hunting out a bit yet? Are we going to want to concentrate on a high damage whip, or what?

    Tagged because you are the Sena, Goddess of Math, Satistics, and Calculations.
  • AnedhelAnedhel Member Posts: 2,367 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Can we joust vs denizens yet D:

    PraxidesSultaniMelodieArcion
  • SenaSena Member Posts: 3,957 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Datrius said:
    Has anyone been able to test the matter of Serpent hunting out a bit yet? Are we going to want to concentrate on a high damage whip, or what?

    Haven't found a serpent to test garrote damage with yet. I couldn't figure out exactly how dexterity affects speed either, I'd like to see garrote with 16+ dexterity.

  • ValusValus TexasMember Posts: 55 ✭✭ - Stalwart

    I guess I switch to being a serpent, that was my second choice and it sounds interesting anyway.

    I have Cerebral Palsy, so it'll take me a bit to learn things so please try to be patient with me.

    Arcion
  • DatriusDatrius Member Posts: 531 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited July 2014

    @Sena Datrius is sitting at 17 Dex if you wanna test using him.

  • TarazaTaraza Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    I haven't noticed that huge of a difference with blademaster..although since I am close to dragon, maybe someone else would have better testing? 

    image



    Orzaansyn
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Sultani brought up a good point with Aetolia's end game. Their incentive for continuing to bash is that they earn points they can spend on different stats, or what we'd consider here a lair. So reaching the end game still remains something you really want to obtain there, and it becomes more about other things, rather than just how much gold you can hoard.

    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

    PraxidesValariaBluefSherazad
  • AlynnaAlynna Member Posts: 134
    Sarapis said:
    Oh, damn it, I had not considered necrodragons..... Those would be cool I admit.

    I want daemon-dragons, damnit!

    TarazaMishgul
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Alynna said:
    Sarapis said:
    Oh, damn it, I had not considered necrodragons..... Those would be cool I admit.

    I want daemon-dragons, damnit!

    Dracolichs, please.

    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

    Mishgul
  • TarazaTaraza Member Posts: 206 ✭✭✭✭ - Eminent
    Alynna said:
    Sarapis said:
    Oh, damn it, I had not considered necrodragons..... Those would be cool I admit.

    I want daemon-dragons, damnit!

    Clearly all Mhaldorians should be able to do this if they were dragon. Making their breathe stream giving similar affects as decay or something. 

    image



  • AlrenaAlrena Member Posts: 647 @ - Epic Achaean

    Taraza said:
    Alynna said:
    Sarapis said:
    Oh, damn it, I had not considered necrodragons..... Those would be cool I admit.

    I want daemon-dragons, damnit!

    Clearly all Mhaldorians should be able to do this if they were dragon. Making their breathe stream giving similar affects as decay or something. 

    Does that mean Eleusian dragons will give heartseed on breathstream? Flowery corpses everywhere!

    image
    ExelethrilUtianimaArcionTaraza
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Kayeil said:

    Sultani brought up a good point with Aetolia's end game. Their incentive for continuing to bash is that they earn points they can spend on different stats, or what we'd consider here a lair. So reaching the end game still remains something you really want to obtain there, and it becomes more about other things, rather than just how much gold you can hoard.

    Lair, sure. Misc fun stuff, sure. PvP stats? No thank you. That would be a gross misunderstanding of why people play MMOs in general. Honestly the fact people consider lv80 a minimum requirement to PvP is already dumb. Raising that to 99+ is just awful, no thank you.
    Valgon
  • KayeilKayeil Washington StateMember Posts: 2,824 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    Nim said:
    Kayeil said:

    Sultani brought up a good point with Aetolia's end game. Their incentive for continuing to bash is that they earn points they can spend on different stats, or what we'd consider here a lair. So reaching the end game still remains something you really want to obtain there, and it becomes more about other things, rather than just how much gold you can hoard.

    Lair, sure. Misc fun stuff, sure. PvP stats? No thank you. That would be a gross misunderstanding of why people play MMOs in general. Honestly the fact people consider lv80 a minimum requirement to PvP is already dumb. Raising that to 99+ is just awful, no thank you.

    Not all of it is PVP stats. Some of it is flavour "add-ons" that come from the races your character doesn't belong to, like the alcohol resistance of a dwarf. Though some of it makes better sense there because they have stat packs, which we don't have, and some of the flavour skills are tailored to the fact that they have undead classes, which require abilities that aren't important here. I'm not at all saying we need to be OP combatants (I'm not even into combat).

    What doesn't kill you gives you exp.

  • RohaiRohai Member Posts: 451 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Can we get a shield-takedown for monks now? I always figured we didn't get one because we already had solid hunting, but now that we don't, it would be nice to at least have that. Especially if knight classes are the new hunting powerhouses, and they already have raze, seems like it's only fair for us to get something similar.
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Rohai said:
    Can we get a shield-takedown for monks now? I always figured we didn't get one because we already had solid hunting, but now that we don't, it would be nice to at least have that. Especially if knight classes are the new hunting powerhouses, and they already have raze, seems like it's only fair for us to get something similar.

    While we're leveling things out, let's make shaman's Bleed go through denizen shields too, pls. 

    KayeilAlaricArcion
  • TharvisTharvis The Land of Beer and Chocolate!Member Posts: 3,107 @@ - Legendary Achaean

    I kill the monks at judgement mountain so fast now  :| Magi buff so awesome!

    Aurora says, "Tharvis, why are you always breaking things?!"
    Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
    Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."

    XaxAegothJhaeli
  • SultaniSultani Member Posts: 185 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    It could be something separate from stats altogether. Perhaps just additional utility abilities similar to gare or something aesthetic. The main thing I enjoy about Aetolia's version is simply that you can stay in your familiar form. I do recall hearing that dragon used to be used in conjunction with class skills which I agree would be pretty OP.

  • RohaiRohai Member Posts: 451 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    edited July 2014
    Bluef said:
    Rohai said:
    Can we get a shield-takedown for monks now? I always figured we didn't get one because we already had solid hunting, but now that we don't, it would be nice to at least have that. Especially if knight classes are the new hunting powerhouses, and they already have raze, seems like it's only fair for us to get something similar.

    While we're leveling things out, let's make shaman's Bleed go through denizen shields too, pls. 

    Not sure if I'm misreading your tone because things can get muddled on the internet, but in conjunction with the 'disagree,' it seems a little snide and I'm not sure how necessary that was? It's just a suggestion. The amount of times I've heard non-monks say something along the lines of, "Oh man you guys have nothing for shields? That sucks," leads me to believe it's not all that outlandish of an idea.

    Shirszae
  • AlaricAlaric CanadaMember Posts: 73 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Bluef said:
    Rohai said:
    Can we get a shield-takedown for monks now? I always figured we didn't get one because we already had solid hunting, but now that we don't, it would be nice to at least have that. Especially if knight classes are the new hunting powerhouses, and they already have raze, seems like it's only fair for us to get something similar.

    While we're leveling things out, let's make shaman's Bleed go through denizen shields too, pls. 

    Yes please


    Cahin said:
    Obliterate was a fair and balanced ability and it's removal from puppetry and vodun should have been a crime.
    ShirszaeErnam
  • SuladanSuladan Member Posts: 193 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished

    @Sarapis‌ Relieved that something will be done to rebuff Dragons a bit. I think the community definitely feels that bashing-wise they should be a bit OP, though perhaps it was too much - not there yet, so don't subjectively know.

    From my own viewpoint, getting to Dragon is definitely billed as a major accomplishment - even being mentioned right at the beginning of character generation (at least it used to be). I knew it was a whole new game at Dragon bashing and that has been one of the goals holding me to Achaea and keeping me bashing over the last year and a half or so. Achieving Dragon made me buy bashing artefacts (pendant, lash (not particularly vital for PvP, but game-changer for PvE - same with SoE, etc.) I'm now within a couple months of making it (with the time that I have to be on) and as it stands now, verified by the numbers coming in on the Miscellaneious Maths/Testing II thread, I bash much better now than I would as a Dragon.

    Piercing the Veil I'm sure is great and a good utility, but I already have several methods of travel (warps, shipreturn, bronze token, wings) so that alone isn't really worth the 180ish hours of solid bashing I have left to get there (and I'm already level 91, doing about 5% per hour) - plus the credits to buy the lessons to learn dragoncraft.

    If it's not going to go back to how it was, maybe at least halfway between where it is now and where it was so that it's still at least (and should be a little better) than where artied lesserform bashing would be. Could also do a buff on dragon armor or give a regen ability or something that would make them tankier so there's a significant reason they're better; especially if damage isn't going to be spectacular. Potentially that could balance out as otherwise I heard that unartied Dragon can't tank a DK anymore. 

    The Truths hurt. Always.
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