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Comments
I'm sad that Dragon is an "end-game reward" for lots of people. To me, Achaea has always been without "endgame". Bashing to Dragon is a goal for everyone, I bashed to 100 and don't bash whatsoever anymore. There are too many MMOs where the "end game reward" is epic gear that just lets you grind faster, and unfortunately, Dragon fell into that category.
I can't tell other people how to play but if your idea of an end-game reward is grinding to something that lets you grind faster, you might be missing out on all the other stuff Achaea offers.
I understand that Dragons should have a certain OP quality because they're freaking Dragons. But lets honestly examine what we've "lost" here - faster grinding after you've already grinded for hundreds of hours.
I'm 100% for anything that moves Achaea away from being a pointless grindfest MMO.
@Aktillum Except this does not really make Achaea less of a grindfest. You still have to grind, be it for lessons, credits, or gold. People are complaining because while the negative got a little more bearable with this changes, its still fundamentally a nerf to the positive aspect that rewarded their patience in the end.
I don't particularly mind the nerf overmuch myself (then again, I am no dragon), but I do think that as a class, it is starting to seem a little lackluster.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
The weird thing is that it really solidifies dragon as a PvP reward for PvE
@Shirszae I agree Dragons sort of suck as a class. Despite a useful travel ability and high tanking, I've only really used Dragon for DOR DRAGONROAR in group PvP. I've actually been bashing in lesserform when I want to raise a bit of gold, only because I have more fun in Bard than Dragon.
I have faith Saracton will adjust things a bit and Dragons will still be a reward for hard work, they just won't steamroll UW/Annwyn and make credits that much harder for non-Dragons to buy.
No no, pre-Dragoncraft Dragon Runies with 25str and battleaxes were a PvP reward for PvE. Outside group PvP, nobody really uses the lame-o monk-clone prep class that is Dragoncraft. Dragon is still the top PvE tank.
I'd be interested to see the overall damage of all classes to stay about where it is now. With obvious tweaks needed on Dragon and a few other classes that might just be a little low.
A few more things I wouldn't mind seeing added:
Group XP increased to make it much more viable. Perhaps a little lower than singular hunting. Give us a reason to group up and have some fun together.
More Hunting Areas for the higher levels that aren't on Islands (lvl 80+)
I think the relics are a great addition as "endgame content", except for the open-PK bit. What'd be great is new areas with decent gold drops, decent XP, and relic-dropping honors mobs. That would encourage group PvE in a WoW-dungeon sort of way. I mean thats sort of what relics are right now, but not quite.
This has been suggested before about having every class have some form of shield takedown.
I believe the answer was along the lines of: Just because a few classes have them doesn't mean that every class should have them. It's not a good argument. If you're going to do that, may as well let Magi erode shields off of denizens (I don't really care about that, just an example).
I truly wish the relics were not open-pk. The areas maybe, but not the relics themselves. But heh, I don't think thats about to happen any time soon.
And you won't understand the cause of your grief...
...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.
Delete Icons
Fill Nish with aggro mobs and relic-dropping honors guys
Relics reset after 24 hours and are not open-PK on the holder
Boom, relics are fixed and relocated to a new open-PvP bashing area, Icons are scrapped, group PvE is encouraged.
I don't see why Dragon needs to be some universally lusted-after carrot. If you want it, you want it. If you don't, you don't. Being a City leader is also featured in the website's video, and I doubt most of the game actually wants to do that.
I've only been 3 classes in my life: Priest, Paladin, and recently Runewarden. Priest I knew was awful, Paladin I thought was good, and Runewarden I actually thought was one of the best in the game. From the changes, my bashing damage has almost-but-not-quite doubled. Point being, if I thought knight bashing was awesome before, and I've been buffed up to a midpoint, and Monks, Blademasters, and Dragons have been nerfed to that same midpoint, then I cannot even begin to comprehend how awesome Monk/Dragon bashing must have been. Dragons, in particular, must have been so absurd that for the first time in my life, I actually understand the appeal of being one.
The "worth" of Dragon is such a subjective perception, though. You still get ~2000 extra health, a whole new skillset, and are all-around cool to everyone coming into the game, so it's still a neat end-game in my book. And even if you can bash faster in lesserform, Dragonform is essentially invincibility to most denizens, so I don't think a lower-than-average DPS is unfair from a balance perspective. I understand that folks who bashed to Dragon specifically for the 2x bashing speed are irked, but is that any different from the Monks who liked Tripblock when it vanished, or the Sentinels who loved Axestun when it disappeared?
I don't think the individual's desire to be overpowered in one way or other trumps the game designer's assessment that a feature is unbalancing the game.
Artied runewarden now is actually about where unartied dragon was before the changes, offensively. Or with awesome rapiers, potentially even better than artied dragon was. Unartied runewardens with decent rapiers were buffed up to that midpoint, but with artefacts or great rapiers, they tower over the midpoint.
@Sena where's an infernal without essence stand now days?
Weaponry is currently bugged (or at least unintentionally awesome, if not technically bugged), so it's hard to answer that properly. Mostly because there's no way to know how things will change when it's fixed, and the current situation is ridiculous. With that in mind:
With the way weaponry works right now, you're basically classless but with better armour. DSL just averages together two plain weapon attacks, so you're better off using plain weapon attacks instead of DSL, because then you only need one great weapon instead of two, and you can use a tower shield.
On one hand, that still makes you far better than dragon. On the other hand, so is everyone else, because everyone has weaponry (and they're better off using that than their class skills). Except for the people who are getting more reasonable weapon attacks, as some apparently are.
Edit: If the fix only brings single weapon attacks down and leaves DSL where it is, then an infernal without essence is going to be in a pretty good place still. DSL is a lot more powerful than it used to be, possibly the best bashing attack (but I'm still missing data on a lot of classes, so I can't say for sure yet).
I should probably point out to people (Also mentioned by @Aerek ) that a bashing stat many people recommend to others is constitution for tankiness... If tankiness is more important for bashing, then dragonform doing less damage with the reward being no chance of dying seems like it's still alright...
Of course I'm just trying to lighten the mood, because people are pissed as Hell the last two days.
@Sena are you telling me Thoth's Fang is an ultra-bashing artie now?
Cascades of quicksilver light streak across the firmament as the celestial voice of Ourania intones, "Oh Jarrod..."
If you need some Magi numbers, I'm happy to help.
Yes, >300 DPS even at 12 strength.
Unless you're unfortunate enough to be unbugged.
My t-fang (71/xx/271) was doing 295 per jab at 18 strength yesterday, but is doing 609 today. That puts me, with nimble, at higher dps than old artied dragon. That's before reflexes! I bugged it already, handaxe was also freakishly high for a period yesterday when dirk wasn't. Expect to see yesterday's number become the norm I think, which is still a nice increase over what it used to be.
Come join the Achaea discord!
I want to do everything in the video... because it said that I can! *rally*
I think Rom's presumably-unbugged numbers (130+DamageStat*1.3) are a good place for plain weaponry attacks. It's still worse than class skills, but good enough to be viable (going with a nonstandard weapon for style will hinder you, but not cripple you).
Sword/Shield Knight so solid, even after single jab nerfs. Fullplate + Tower stacking is great!
Dat SoA, though. Super lucky.
Super laggy. Balance ranged from 3s, to 1.4s - the 1.6ish ones are the real ones.
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/a611ff13
There are a lot of places where you simply don't need the dragon tankiness, though, and a large part of what made dragon really capable of tanking large groups of denizens was the fact that you'd kill a fair number of them pretty quickly, unless you got absolutely dire luck with critical hits. Factor in the fact that dragonform takes ~18 seconds (without elder dragon) and there's probably little point in hunting as a dragon, unless you only EVER do areas that absolutely require the increased resistances and constitution (and, depending on class, ability to wield a shield).
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
dragon is easy pvp for when you get ganked too imo if you are unartied. I am in Orzaansyn's boat with this one.
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One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
Did a bit of testing, and weapon damage still feels incredibly wrong to me. There's not enough of an increase from variation in damage stat, which means that rapiers are far and away the best weapons (not that anybody is surprised by that); that's going to be even more apparent when you factor in the increased number of critical hits due to more frequent attacks.
All numbers are with 19 strength, Transcendent Chivalry and Weaponry, using my level three artefact rapiers (90 damage, 2.2 second attack) and level two artefact broadswords (151 damage, ~3.2 second attack):
Rapier doubleslash: 726 damage, 330 DPS.
Rapier jab: 616 damage, 280 DPS.
Broadsword doubleslash: 932 damage, 291.25 DPS.
Broadsword jab: 792 damage, 247.5 DPS.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
I'm going to say something likely stupid... But what's a DPS is that bleeding?
Any idea how Priests fit into this? I have no idea how you all figure out this DPS figure (is there some neutral base to calculate from?)
Attack a falcon, measure the change in health of the falcon, and divide by the balance time of the attack