House Renaissance

Mishgul

Most teaching of all forms is planned to be done through the city.

Florentino

I think this just sees the basic organizing unit of relationships become the city - at least I hope that's the case. Mhaldor is particularly well suited to this, I think.

Whatever happens, I'm excited. We get to be in on the ground floor of creating a new house and a new legacy, Mhaldor has a ton of really awesome CR3-CR4 people right now that are up and coming and can make a huge impact (in addition to a deep bench of CR6/Sartai leaders who are nonetheless not suffocating in their grip on power), and we've been riding some recent military and political successes. We can really parlay that into a cool near-term future, I think.

Herenicus

If they no longer serve an organizing purpose, I don't see why we'd fret about 'em at all. We could save ourselves the effort required to maintain vestigial links between the past and Pure Mhaldor. 

Stuneree

Damn these houses sound nice.
When I heard word before that they might be doing a more combat-leaning house, and a more RP-leaning house, I was actually pretty happy. Unfortunately, I've spoken to a lot of novices in Mhaldor who felt like they weren't allowed to get into a lot of combat in Congregation simply because they read Maldaathi as some sort of army-based house.

Time will tell, but Mhaldor is separated pretty damn well between coms and non-coms IMO. The non-coms are extremely dedicated to making great roleplay for everyone else, and the coms tend to enjoy being at odds with most cities, (more combat). I don't think it hurts to be separated by house. It's not like houses determine in-city relationships (most of the time).

Save a badass title for me.  Kudos to those who spent all of this time working on the houses, (across all cities, of course).

Sherazad

From what I am hearing, there will be more for people who want the specific roleplays offered from before. It's just going to be more flexible now. Also, I like having coms and non coms being able to interact closer, with more options on their RP. We also have combatants that are pretty much into some RP stuff, so there's that. I think the citizenry's diverse enough to play with the new houses and it would certainly unify us more when pker/nonpker distinctions are blurred compared to the past.


EDIT: there were valid points posted here that I'm hoping to hear ICly. Mhaldorian leaders are receptive so let's discuss it there too. I haven't made my opinions public yet but that's because I'm still waiting for more info like most people.

Herenicus

Will the Houses break down as vaguely Adikoi and Shayatin, by way of culture and focus? How useful is that shorthand? 

Cooper

Roughly, but not exactly.

Terra

Herenicus said:

Would a fighter House in Mhaldor have been so much worse than the two in Targossas and Cyrene? Every black-clad s.o.b. is expected to pitch in, of course, but developing 1v1 expertise and group combat leadership must not be /that/ one-dimensional and dull considering how many players devote the bulk of their time and energy to PvP. Why not put these cats in one place?

I personally couldn't stand the Targossian division of Houses and was glad Mhaldor did something different. People who focus primarily on combat or ritual/theology tend to like that division, I think, but Mhaldor has a -lot- of people who go to it for a good mix of combat and non-combat RP things. It's always been the best city for that. Those of us who love doing both would hate to be stuck in a House specializing in one or the other because it means half of what we do means nothing to our House. In a combat House, you tend to just get credited for combat things and have less access to non-combat things and people who like to do those things. However, on the other hand, in a non-combat House, you don't get favours and ranks for all the combat stuff you do, putting yourself at a major disadvantage compared to Housemates who only focus on the House focus.

So, people who like both combat and non-combat things benefit most from a House that focuses on both. And I think there are a LOT of those people in Mhaldor, so this was a good idea.

Edit: I just really think it is artificial to try to classify each Mhaldorian as combatant or noncombatant. That's really not how the city is at all.

Herenicus

I don't think it's unfair or artificial to say that people frequently have areas of primary focus and benefit from collaborating. I would be interested to know whether players in Targossas or Cyrene feel that organizing by focus is working out as hoped, or if it is confining as anticipated by @Terra‌. 

The point may be moot. Houses based on play style or area of primary focus (combat or non-combat) made sense when I thought instruction in these areas remained the function of the new Houses as they were (or were supposed to be) in the old. If Mhaldor is now occupying the field, such a division is pointless.

Now, I have it from a founder that the Insidium will focus on 1v1 combat whereas the Legates will focus on group combat. That strikes me as problematic for the same reason that dividing up ritualists, lore buffs, explorers, and theologians is problematic. The solution could be to have Mhaldor occupy instruction and advancement in these fields, too. 

While it saves us from duplication or division, shifting the work of government to Mhaldor comes at the cost of turning Houses into Mhaldor's vestigial tails.

Edit: Or tyrannosaurus arms. 

Ruth

Stop making half-assumptions from talking to only one founder, thanks.

Herenicus

Ruth said:

Stop making half-assumptions from talking to only one founder, thanks.

I have spoken to three, and received three different answers. I'm not trying to make life difficult for anybody. I'm sorry if it felt that way. 

Amarillys

As a Cyrenian, I love the house split. I'm new to the game and I am way more in to roleplaying than just about anything offered in the game, and so I liked the Virtuosi because it seemed like a good way to learn how to be better.  Learning how to dance or paint teaches you how to make better emotes and descriptions, or so my thinking went. I love it. I'm still super interested in exploring, and I defend as best as I can (not well). So when novices as me 'but I want to do it all' or 'I like lore and fighting' I just ask them what do they want to advance with. 'I see fighting as my duty, but I really love learning about history.' You should be an outrider, but maybe look into the Order of 'that one rune I can't remember right now'. 'You know, I like the idea of making some money off jewellery/tailoring/cooking but I just had a spar and that was so much fun!' Go join the Shield, I'll invite you to the city clan for the arts. 'I like reading, but I want to write more!' 'Ooooh, your dance/poem/story was so good! I wish I could do that!' Welcome to the Virtuosi. We aren't relegated to doing things in our house. The city works together so that everyone has a chance to do everything, but you advance in your house by what you are most passionate about. Consider I dabble a lot in so many areas because I want to do everything and still have been working my way through the house, it has not crossed my mind that others have an easier time because they just focus on art. That's my take, at least.

ETA 'Ooooh, your dance/poem/story was so good! I wish I could do that!' was how I got involved in the Virtuosi. I went to a concert and told that to everyone and one of them talked me in to joining. ^_^

Iocun

Herenicus said:

I don't think it's unfair or artificial to say that people frequently have areas of primary focus and benefit from collaborating. I would be interested to know whether players in Targossas or Cyrene feel that organizing by focus is working out as hoped, or if it is confining as anticipated by @Terra‌. 

For me, it is one of the reasons that kept me from joining one of the new Cyrenian houses. I like combat, I like exploration, I like in-game lore, and so my character got somewhat proficient in those areas, but he never considered either of them to be his life's purpose and would dislike being in a house that only placed relevance on one of those things, rather than a more "holistic" approach.

This might be different in a city that has a strong ideology in itself which may serve as the core focus of ones character, but in a neutral city, I find houses that only focus on activity rather than ideology lacking.

But no matter how you do it, any way you split up houses will not suit everyone. For me, the old house distinctions did the trick, for others, they seemed confining.

Aodfionn

The Targossas house split is pretty awesome, imho. Though I get real tired of the Harbs getting called 'the RP house.' 

Siduri

Aodfionn said:

The Targossas house split is pretty awesome, imho. Though I get real tired of the Harbs getting called 'the RP house.' 

Well, they do get the huuuge non-com rep, until someone like you comes along and just slice and dice them with its scimitars.

Melodie

I much, much much much much much prefer the mixing of types together like Mhaldor has. This is pretty much my dream set up for the most part. The only thing I am sad about is that it means I won't get to work together with some people House-wise, but that's just inevitable no matter what anyway. So all in all, I'm super pleased and very excited.

Ruth

I am unimaginably tired after the opening of the Houses today. Happy that it mostly went without a hitch, and that some people pointed out stuff in scrolls when we opened, like some wording we may have used in requirements which may have been better re-worded a certain way to convey the ideals of the House.

Loads more modifications to be done, but it is with hope that future progress will see each House further defined when the rosters fill out with HR3+.

Kerria

Iocun said:

Herenicus said:

I don't think it's unfair or artificial to say that people frequently have areas of primary focus and benefit from collaborating. I would be interested to know whether players in Targossas or Cyrene feel that organizing by focus is working out as hoped, or if it is confining as anticipated by @Terra‌. 

For me, it is one of the reasons that kept me from joining one of the new Cyrenian houses. I like combat, I like exploration, I like in-game lore, and so my character got somewhat proficient in those areas, but he never considered either of them to be his life's purpose and would dislike being in a house that only placed relevance on one of those things, rather than a more "holistic" approach.

This might be different in a city that has a strong ideology in itself which may serve as the core focus of ones character, but in a neutral city, I find houses that only focus on activity rather than ideology lacking.

But no matter how you do it, any way you split up houses will not suit everyone. For me, the old house distinctions did the trick, for others, they seemed confining.

but it's not keeping you from doing those other things. So I'm missing the point entirely of not joining a house. By that logic it would mean you could do nothing.

Cyrene specifically made it so you can say... join combat, but still experience the other houses and share with them. You choose to join them or not, same way for a house. You find you like to explore, but you also want to do combat. They won't stop you from combat, and you're already in the CAC... and Army... you've got a good chuck of Shield's thing right there. You can even join the Virtuosi if you want Iocun to learn a few dance moves or something.

You're not limited.... so why limit yourself saying your limited?

Mishgul

Because he wants to be recognized for doing all the things, instead of a third. He is entitled to his opinion and should join Mhaldor to explore his pacifism in a new and more violently pioneering light.

Aerek

In the more neutral cities like Cyrene, where citizenship doesn't greatly influence your character's ideals, Houses devoted to a specific philosophy are going to risk insolvency by appealing only to characters playing those niche roles, or become stymied by internal strife as characters who don't quite fit with the House join in anyway because House membership is strongly encouraged. Both of these realities were well illustrated in pre-Renaissance Cyrene's high rogue population, the declining population and activity of the Houses themselves, and the drama that plagued the Houses with weaker cultural identities when members with different interpretations of those ideas clashed. Certainly, Houses that focus on a specific ideology and have different wings of soldiers, scholars, and craftsman, united under that banner have greater romantic appeal and make for a better story, but the realities of online gaming and Achaea's population don't really allow it to flourish.

Instead, citizens are grouped by interests they enjoy, and not limited by being forced into an ideology they may or may not want to play just to participate in those interests. I.E. "I want to fight, but I don't want to be Knightly" was the Warden issue that effectively kept us from being a viable military faction, because we didn't appeal some of the fighters we would have wanted, and a few times we had to kick some good fighters because they weren't meshing with the House ideals. The Shield doesn't have that issue, and is already making leaps and bounds as a military faction that the Wardens could never manage, as our more successful raid showings in the last few years might indicate. I admit that I do miss some of the old days, but overall I am having more fun surrounded by like-minded players.

In aligned factions like Mhaldor and Targossas, however, I imagine the story will be different. Because everyone in Mhaldor is united by the same religion and is expected to actively fight, engage in roleplay, and participate in city culture, there's no need to divide them by interest, because everyone already has the same base interests, or at least a willingness to dip a toe into them. In this environment, Houses are much more free to focus on subtle ideological shifts that play on different character archetypes, and will have much more success in that regard.

TL;DR I think the divide-by-interest model is working famously in Cyrene, but I don't think it's a one-size-fits-all equation.

Herenicus

I wonder a little about the 2:1 membership ratio between our do-it-all Houses. One benefit of divide-by-interest is that each House enjoys a monopoly of sorts; you don't have the problems of direct competition and membership cannibalization. 

Arador

if both do their own thing well, the you do not have to worry either. Looking at the current setups, there are a few discrepancies between the actual approaches to tasks. If they can straighten that out, I am pretty sure it will go a lot more towards 50/50.

Ruth

So. Pretty much the popular opinion about our new Houses now is hilarious, but accurate.

Insidium is Star War's Sith Empire, with their emphasis on masters and apprenticeship to insidious ends.
Legates is Star Trek's Borg race, with their emphasis of assimilation to their culture or destruction.

And yeah, there are a few approaches to tasks that needs to be addressed, but once we have that down, things should straighten out 50/50.

Orzaansyn

And all shall walk in fear.

Kresslack

Ruth said:

So. Pretty much the popular opinion about our new Houses now is hilarious, but accurate.

Insidium is Star War's Sith Empire, with their emphasis on masters and apprenticeship to insidious ends.
Legates is Star Trek's Borg race, with their emphasis of assimilation to their culture or destruction.

And yeah, there are a few approaches to tasks that needs to be addressed, but once we have that down, things should straighten out 50/50.

I'll forgive you this once for putting those two together in reference. I'd say Insidium would be more like Sith Inquisitors and Legates more like Sith Stormtroopers. Mhaldor itself is obviously the Sith Empire.

Ruth

I knew what I was doing when I put them together, @Kresslack. >.>

WHERE MY FELLOW TREKKIES

Tibitha

Ruth said:

I knew what I was doing when I put them together, @Kresslack. >.>

WHERE MY FELLOW TREKKIES

I want to call my kittens Spock and James Tiberius Kirk. Im meeting resistance.

(As a side note, for some reason my brain has decided Ruth = Captain Janeway)

Amarillys

Tibitha said:

Im meeting resistance.

Resistance is Futile.

Klendathu

Tibitha said:

Ruth said:

I knew what I was doing when I put them together, @Kresslack. >.>

WHERE MY FELLOW TREKKIES

I want to call my kittens Spock and James Tiberius Kirk. Im meeting resistance.

(As a side note, for some reason my brain has decided Ruth = Captain Janeway)

Resistance is futile.

Mishgul

Resistance is futile