House Renaissance

Amarillys

Ha! I totally beat everyone to that line!

Kresslack

Ruth said:

I knew what I was doing when I put them together, @Kresslack. >.>

WHERE MY FELLOW TREKKIES

Now I shall not forgive you.

Tekk

Mhaldor's houses and house events look pretty bitchin. I'm envious.

Saralynne

Ruth said:

I knew what I was doing when I put them together, @Kresslack. >.>

WHERE MY FELLOW TREKKIES

I Star Trek, post original series.  The show where women could be strong, independent, enjoy their sexuality, but be respected for their minds and capabilities. Star Wars was meh...Ep. 4 had a damsel in distress, but fiesty. Ep.5 had the fiesty, but powerless princess through most of it, and even needed Han to help her with the Falcon repairs, though she got irritated that he tried. Ep. 6....come on....she tries to do the hero thing, but gets turned into eye candy for Jabba on a leash, even if her fiesty-ness does get her free.  We're more than fiesty.  We're Trekkie women. Daring to boldly go where no one has gone before.  

Jacen

Can we hurry up with the Renaissance, so we can get through this awkward IC/OOC phase, where some people post about it in House news, talk about it on public channels, at public places like Crossroads, and some people vehemently deny anything is happening at all?

Saralynne

As for Renaissance...I dipped my toes in the "exploring and scholarly" house that I'm shamefully blanking on the name of in Cyrene.  I've heard alot of wonderful things about the Shield and Virtuosi, and I'm thinking of joining the latter.  I can hardly wait to see how the other cities change their tone or RP with their own new Houses that are coming.

Suladan

Saralynne said:

Ruth said:

I knew what I was doing when I put them together, @Kresslack. >.>

WHERE MY FELLOW TREKKIES

I Star Trek, post original series.  The show where women could be strong, independent, enjoy their sexuality, but be respected for their minds and capabilities. Star Wars was meh...Ep. 4 had a damsel in distress, but fiesty. Ep.5 had the fiesty, but powerless princess through most of it, and even needed Han to help her with the Falcon repairs, though she got irritated that he tried. Ep. 6....come on....she tries to do the hero thing, but gets turned into eye candy for Jabba on a leash, even if her fiesty-ness does get her free.  We're more than fiesty.  We're Trekkie women. Daring to boldly go where no one has gone before.  

Not to derail this, but nothing beats Leia. Remember, while she looked great as eye candy in Episode VI, she's also the one that killed Jabba, when Luke didn't get anywhere!

Leia didn't take shit from anybody. She was the boss.

Bluef

Suladan said:

Saralynne said:

Ruth said:

I knew what I was doing when I put them together, @Kresslack. >.>

WHERE MY FELLOW TREKKIES

I Star Trek, post original series.  The show where women could be strong, independent, enjoy their sexuality, but be respected for their minds and capabilities. Star Wars was meh...Ep. 4 had a damsel in distress, but fiesty. Ep.5 had the fiesty, but powerless princess through most of it, and even needed Han to help her with the Falcon repairs, though she got irritated that he tried. Ep. 6....come on....she tries to do the hero thing, but gets turned into eye candy for Jabba on a leash, even if her fiesty-ness does get her free.  We're more than fiesty.  We're Trekkie women. Daring to boldly go where no one has gone before.  

Not to derail this, but nothing beats Leia. Remember, while she looked great as eye candy in Episode VI, she's also the one that killed Jabba, when Luke didn't get anywhere!

Leia didn't take shit from anybody. She was the boss.

Absolutely! She's one of my favs:

"I don't know who you are or where you came from, but from now on you'll do as I tell you, okay?" -- Princess Leia

Keldrik

.

Kinilan

What? Tries to do the right thing? Her whole planet gets dusted like an Deuc shrine during an Ashtan raid and rather than focus on leading the rebellion and avenging her entier planet she runs off for a few months to save her smuggler/MURDERER boyfriend that got what he deserved for reneging on a deal he made knowing full well the risks involved. And it's not like he was going anywhere. She could have tried to save him AFTER dealing with the empire.

Leia is fucking terrible.

But hey, Houses. Ashtan gets a pirate house right?

Antreus

Guilds had issues, but I think Houses have caused more problems than they have fixed for a significant margin of older players. As an older player, I find no reason to be in one: you can still find proteges without them.

I haven't been able to feel connected to any organization after I felt my Guild's identity was compromised, and to that end, I worry a lot about the Occultists. A lot of roleplay revolves around the suspension of belief in your power and significance. To that end I think Houses exposed just how fragile that suspension is that allows people to think "as the group" and not simply seeking accolades or attaining power just for the sake of it.

Some guilds weren't able to survive the House system muddling their fragile ecosystems. They had to add more classes or risk having few people to instill their values into, as they were vying for the minds of the next generation. Some Guilds had very esoteric practices to pass on and ways of understanding the world that didn't fit into this model. While many followed suit despite this, not all of them succeeded. The forestal houses seem to have made out fairly well, as they also have a strong ideology that manifests itself over much of the world: forests. Not only that, but there's simply more things to do if you're a Forestal, and ways to be useful and roleplay accordingly. The world outside the city is fundamentally yours.

If there is to be any Renaissance, then it needs to actually have validity. Houses that succeed will teach or fulfill for their members one or more of the following.

What they ought to believe 
What they ought to desire   
What they ought to do

I can see a lot of reasons why just the above won't work for a lot of cities. There's less ways to affect your environment it feels like, or even doing small things that mean a lot to the majority of citizens. You're just a body, and that is the worst feeling.

Back in the day Houses were for large families, Guilds were for professions/classes, and High Clans were just clans for large families, crotchety old folks making lewd jokes, pre-order establishments, and pro-something fraternities/crafters.

I can't wait for the day when they get it sorted. Some of those clans should be in a league of their own, and some High Clans too. We definitely need a cemetery, so that people don't join Orders just to die peacefully only to be ousted for being dormant. 

Where's the love? Best to give players the tools to make their own affairs and organizations a reality, instead of being wholly authoritative about they go about it. It would give lots of people an outlet to be creative and role play outside the mold if there were tools for them to be self-sufficient outside of cities, making their own societies.

Antreus

With the Mariner's Guild High Clan, why not just let some novices become sailors right away or pirates in Meropis?

Tibitha

Please don't hurt me for this. It might be because I'm only HR3 but the Houses in Targossas seem a bit... pointless to me.

Im not actually sure what their purpose is supposed to be. Everyone seems to just identify as Targossasian and then oh yes im also in this House.

I mean I guess the point is supposed to be a concentration of combat knowledge but half the combatants arent in the Dawnblade so it usually makes more sense to just discuss it with the guard.

It just feels, at this point,  as if the Houses could disappear overnight and not much would change. 

Like I said, I realise it may just be because im still only HR3

Daslin

Can't wait for Ashtan's changes. I wanna be Ashuran again. Wait, I mean in the combat house?

Ashuran.

Achimrst

Daslin said:

Can't wait for Ashtan's changes. I wanna be Ashuran again. Wait, I mean in the combat house?

Ashuran.

Addama

Tibitha said:

Please don't hurt me for this. It might be because I'm only HR3 but the Houses in Targossas seem a bit... pointless to me.

Im not actually sure what their purpose is supposed to be. Everyone seems to just identify as Targossasian and then oh yes im also in this House.

I mean I guess the point is supposed to be a concentration of combat knowledge but half the combatants arent in the Dawnblade so it usually makes more sense to just discuss it with the guard.

It just feels, at this point,  as if the Houses could disappear overnight and not much would change. 

Like I said, I realise it may just be because im still only HR3

It's a valid point.

Targossas is the city with the longest Renaissance experience, so they serve kind of as a litmus test for what happens after the initial GUYS WE ARE NEW HOUSES!!! thing passes.  Cyrene is getting to that point, but not quite there yet.

For what it's worth, Dawnblade seems to be the most active House, and typically if ten or fewer Targossians are logged in at least half of them are Dawnblades.  We've always got things to be doing, even when there's not a raid, which is nice because I've been on the other side of things and too often there's just nothing happening (unless you throw money at it, coughshipscough).

A House, up until HR5 or so, determines how you demonstrate competency and dedication to a City.  If you were in another House, you'd be conducting sermons or exploring instead of racking up spars.  That's kind of the point of a House post-Renaissance, not to literally concentrate all the combat-types into one clique and all the non-comms into another. 

Personally, I'm happy that the other Houses have quite a few competent fighters.  I do wish that the Army were easier to break into - seems silly that I'm on raid defense every day and yet I have this laundry list of tasks to complete until I can merely speak on ART - but otherwise I'm happy with the current arrangement.

Amarillys

Addama said:

Targossas is the city with the longest Renaissance experience, so they serve kind of as a litmus test for what happens after the initial GUYS WE ARE NEW HOUSES!!! thing passes.  Cyrene is getting to that point, but not quite there yet.

I don't know about the other houses in Cyrene, but I don't see that problem with the Virtuosi. I mean, me and Ilen have done the most paths in the house (3 each, both nearly done with our fourth) and we've been at it for IG years. Four isn't even halfway. There's so much to do in the Virtuosi. There's path work which can take so much effort, and me and Ilen are busting through them fast but Mazel's probably closer to a good average of what it should be. (He's got two done.) There's becoming a path aide to help out other people trying to work through the paths. There's newcomer aide and concerts and contests. We have field trips and get togethers. We try to pull the city into our shindigs, and IMO it's a great way to set up a culture that encourages people to work at their own pace while still providing enough things to do for those of us who want to always be pushing further and further. In twenty or thirty years the Virtuosi will have their first Master Virtuoso (I'm betting on Ilen or me.) and when we're done with that, then maybe we'll run into a snag of 'what is the point?' but I definitely don't see it is a problem in the house right now.

TL;DR I Virtuosi

Salindera

Amarillys said:

Addama said:

Targossas is the city with the longest Renaissance experience, so they serve kind of as a litmus test for what happens after the initial GUYS WE ARE NEW HOUSES!!! thing passes.  Cyrene is getting to that point, but not quite there yet.

I don't know about the other houses in Cyrene, but I don't see that problem with the Virtuosi. I mean, me and Ilen have done the most paths in the house (3 each, both nearly done with our fourth) and we've been at it for IG years. Four isn't even halfway. There's so much to do in the Virtuosi. There's path work which can take so much effort, and me and Ilen are busting through them fast but Mazel's probably closer to a good average of what it should be. (He's got two done.) There's becoming a path aide to help out other people trying to work through the paths. There's newcomer aide and concerts and contests. We have field trips and get togethers. We try to pull the city into our shindigs, and IMO it's a great way to set up a culture that encourages people to work at their own pace while still providing enough things to do for those of us who want to always be pushing further and further. In twenty or thirty years the Virtuosi will have their first Master Virtuoso (I'm betting on Ilen or me.) and when we're done with that, then maybe we'll run into a snag of 'what is the point?' but I definitely don't see it is a problem in the house right now.

TL;DR I Virtuosi

the Virtuosi is a bit of an odd case, since it is probably the closest parallel to an old house that we have post-renaissance. Which isn't a bad thing. Ty Beirdd was one of the few houses to really be a house, rather then a weird quasi-guild thing, I feel. But it does mean that it has been, I believe spared some of the brunt of needing to create new traditions and practices that are ultimately necessary for forming a new sort of identity.

This, I believe, is the biggest issue for the Outriders, for instance. We have a good spot in terms of what we do (lots of people at least nominally interested in exploration and scholarship), but without the backing of history and traditions, it kinda feels a little bit flat. I think the Targossian houses have a similar problem, maybe only exacerbated by having less citizenship. The concepts are really neat, but have yet to flourish into institutions.

Amarillys

That's sad because I can see so much promise in the Outriders. A lot of games could be made for the concepts that they thrive in (exploration and lore) that could be really neat and create the culture and traditions that they might lack. I think a lot of people see the new houses and want them to be like the old, but the old houses were based off ideals where as the new ones are more based off of culture. The problem is, the old houses had culture gained through hundreds of years IG. The new houses have to make their own culture, but, like the Shield getting the right to honor duels inside the city, it is possible. Starting from the ground up is never easy, but the promise of the division Cyrene made with their houses has so much potential that it's hard to imagine they can't fight to make their own traditions. The Outriders excite me and obviously they excite others because I see so many of them about!

Addama

What's the difference between Virtuosi and Outriders?  It sounds like they do more or less the same thing.

Shirszae

Addama said:

What's the difference between Virtuosi and Outriders?  It sounds like they do more or less the same thing.

Outriders = Exploration, History, Lore, Scholar activities, that sort of stuff
Virtuosi = Crafts, Art, Culture , Artistic activities, that sort of stuff

Sure, you could argue some things could fall on either side, but on the whole I think there is really very little overlapping because each has a distinct focus and feeling.

Amarillys

Yeah, when I say culture I don't mean like fancy balls and stuff, I just mean... traditions and activities and the like that become the makeup of an organization.

Herenicus

Fiction vs. Nonfiction?

Aerek

And the Outriders may not have the convenient foundation that the Virtuosi had with Ty Beirdd, but from the outside looking in, I don't think the Outriders are suffering in membership or activity.

Overall, I'm pretty pleased with how Cyrene's houses are turning out, and I think we've been in business long enough to say that all three are functioning well, not just riding wave of novelty because "new".

Addama

Deep sea fishing vs. lake fishing

Aodfionn

For what it's worth, the Targossian houses are still new and are still coming into their own. I have a feeling that, a year from now, the houses will be a lot more fleshed out and have a lot more defined roles in terms of what they do. For what it's worth, the people in charge of the houses are seriously committed to making those identities and finding cool things for the roles we have chosen. 

Sarapis

Jacen said:

Can we hurry up with the Renaissance, so we can get through this awkward IC/OOC phase, where some people post about it in House news, talk about it on public channels, at public places like Crossroads, and some people vehemently deny anything is happening at all?

I'm not directly involved in the Renaissance but I can tell you that the major thing making it go slowly right now is certain players in leadership positions being difficult or obstinate. Not going to name names, but they know who they are.

Bluef

Sarapis said:

Jacen said:

Can we hurry up with the Renaissance, so we can get through this awkward IC/OOC phase, where some people post about it in House news, talk about it on public channels, at public places like Crossroads, and some people vehemently deny anything is happening at all?

I'm not directly involved in the Renaissance but I can tell you that the major thing making it go slowly right now is certain players in leadership positions being difficult or obstinate. Not going to name names, but they know who they are.

I'm at a loss for why entire cities (full of dozens of players) are being made to wait because of a handful who are "leaders." Maybe those being obstinate should simply be replaced, ie. named, shamed and voted out of "service." It's a game. Get on with the re-skinning of the Houses!

Tibitha

Aodfionn said:

For what it's worth, the Targossian houses are still new and are still coming into their own. I have a feeling that, a year from now, the houses will be a lot more fleshed out and have a lot more defined roles in terms of what they do. For what it's worth, the people in charge of the houses are seriously committed to making those identities and finding cool things for the roles we have chosen. 

I hope I didn't come over as attacking the Targ Houses and their leaders I didn't mean it that way.

Sarapis

Bluef said:

Sarapis said:

Jacen said:

Can we hurry up with the Renaissance, so we can get through this awkward IC/OOC phase, where some people post about it in House news, talk about it on public channels, at public places like Crossroads, and some people vehemently deny anything is happening at all?

I'm not directly involved in the Renaissance but I can tell you that the major thing making it go slowly right now is certain players in leadership positions being difficult or obstinate. Not going to name names, but they know who they are.

I'm at a loss for why entire cities (full of dozens of players) are being made to wait because of a handful who are "leaders." Maybe those being obstinate should simply be replaced, ie. named, shamed and voted out of "service." It's a game. Get on with the re-skinning of the Houses!

That is and remains an option, but as a last resort.