Welcome to the Achaea Forums! Please be sure to read the Forum Rules.

House Renaissance

1454648505154

Comments

  • ShirszaeShirszae Santo DomingoMember Posts: 3,283 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2014
    Addama said:
    What's the difference between Virtuosi and Outriders?  It sounds like they do more or less the same thing.
    Outriders = Exploration, History, Lore, Scholar activities, that sort of stuff
    Virtuosi = Crafts, Art, Culture , Artistic activities, that sort of stuff

    Sure, you could argue some things could fall on either side, but on the whole I think there is really very little overlapping because each has a distinct focus and feeling.

    And you won't understand the cause of your grief...


    ...But you'll always follow the voices beneath.

  • AmarillysAmarillys Member Posts: 797 @ - Epic Achaean
    Yeah, when I say culture I don't mean like fancy balls and stuff, I just mean... traditions and activities and the like that become the makeup of an organization.



  • HerenicusHerenicus The Western FrontMember Posts: 1,734 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Fiction vs. Nonfiction?
    ShirszaeTael
  • AerekAerek East Tennessee, USAMember Posts: 1,818 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    And the Outriders may not have the convenient foundation that the Virtuosi had with Ty Beirdd, but from the outside looking in, I don't think the Outriders are suffering in membership or activity.

    Overall, I'm pretty pleased with how Cyrene's houses are turning out, and I think we've been in business long enough to say that all three are functioning well, not just riding wave of novelty because "new".
    -- Grounded in but one perspective, what we perceive is an exaggeration of the truth.
    AmarillysHalos
  • AddamaAddama Member Posts: 947 ✭✭✭✭✭ - Grand Achaean
    Deep sea fishing vs. lake fishing
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
    Trilliana
  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WAMember Posts: 1,218 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    For what it's worth, the Targossian houses are still new and are still coming into their own. I have a feeling that, a year from now, the houses will be a lot more fleshed out and have a lot more defined roles in terms of what they do. For what it's worth, the people in charge of the houses are seriously committed to making those identities and finding cool things for the roles we have chosen. 
    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?" 

    (The Targossian Academy): Halos says, "Go on! I need to feel the wind in my hair!"


    ShirszaeTrillianaMelodie
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2014
    Sarapis said:
    Jacen said:
    Can we hurry up with the Renaissance, so we can get through this awkward IC/OOC phase, where some people post about it in House news, talk about it on public channels, at public places like Crossroads, and some people vehemently deny anything is happening at all?
    I'm not directly involved in the Renaissance but I can tell you that the major thing making it go slowly right now is certain players in leadership positions being difficult or obstinate. Not going to name names, but they know who they are.
    I'm at a loss for why entire cities (full of dozens of players) are being made to wait because of a handful who are "leaders." Maybe those being obstinate should simply be replaced, ie. named, shamed and voted out of "service." It's a game. Get on with the re-skinning of the Houses!
    Tael
  • TibithaTibitha Member Posts: 742 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Aodfionn said:
    For what it's worth, the Targossian houses are still new and are still coming into their own. I have a feeling that, a year from now, the houses will be a lot more fleshed out and have a lot more defined roles in terms of what they do. For what it's worth, the people in charge of the houses are seriously committed to making those identities and finding cool things for the roles we have chosen. 
    I hope I didn't come over as attacking the Targ Houses and their leaders :( I didn't mean it that way.
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Bluef said:
    Sarapis said:
    Jacen said:
    Can we hurry up with the Renaissance, so we can get through this awkward IC/OOC phase, where some people post about it in House news, talk about it on public channels, at public places like Crossroads, and some people vehemently deny anything is happening at all?
    I'm not directly involved in the Renaissance but I can tell you that the major thing making it go slowly right now is certain players in leadership positions being difficult or obstinate. Not going to name names, but they know who they are.
    I'm at a loss for why entire cities (full of dozens of players) are being made to wait because of a handful who are "leaders." Maybe those being obstinate should simply be replaced, ie. named, shamed and voted out of "service." It's a game. Get on with the re-skinning of the Houses!
    That is and remains an option, but as a last resort.
    BluefTael
  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WAMember Posts: 1,218 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tibitha said:
    Aodfionn said:
    For what it's worth, the Targossian houses are still new and are still coming into their own. I have a feeling that, a year from now, the houses will be a lot more fleshed out and have a lot more defined roles in terms of what they do. For what it's worth, the people in charge of the houses are seriously committed to making those identities and finding cool things for the roles we have chosen. 
    I hope I didn't come over as attacking the Targ Houses and their leaders :( I didn't mean it that way.

    Say three Hail Auroras as well as draw a picture of Aodfionn riding a giant battle-sloth and all will be forgiven, my child. 

    (Now I see why they pay Herenicus the big bucks - good call)



    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?" 

    (The Targossian Academy): Halos says, "Go on! I need to feel the wind in my hair!"


    TibithaTrilliana
  • RuthRuth SingaporeMember Posts: 2,700 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Hmph!
    "Mummy, I'm hungry, but there's no one to eat! :C"

     

    Tael
  • AchimrstAchimrst NatureMember Posts: 3,608 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Sarapis said:
    Bluef said:
    Sarapis said:
    Jacen said:
    Can we hurry up with the Renaissance, so we can get through this awkward IC/OOC phase, where some people post about it in House news, talk about it on public channels, at public places like Crossroads, and some people vehemently deny anything is happening at all?
    I'm not directly involved in the Renaissance but I can tell you that the major thing making it go slowly right now is certain players in leadership positions being difficult or obstinate. Not going to name names, but they know who they are.
    I'm at a loss for why entire cities (full of dozens of players) are being made to wait because of a handful who are "leaders." Maybe those being obstinate should simply be replaced, ie. named, shamed and voted out of "service." It's a game. Get on with the re-skinning of the Houses!
    That is and remains an option, but as a last resort.
    What I'm wondering is, why do you care what the leaders have to say? I mean it seems like redoing the houses is more of a game administrative thing then an IC thing right?
    Rangor
  • BluefBluef DelosMember Posts: 2,176 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    edited November 2014
    Tecton said:
    Achimrst said:
    Sarapis said:
    Bluef said:
    Sarapis said:
    Jacen said:
    Can we hurry up with the Renaissance, so we can get through this awkward IC/OOC phase, where some people post about it in House news, talk about it on public channels, at public places like Crossroads, and some people vehemently deny anything is happening at all?
    I'm not directly involved in the Renaissance but I can tell you that the major thing making it go slowly right now is certain players in leadership positions being difficult or obstinate. Not going to name names, but they know who they are.
    I'm at a loss for why entire cities (full of dozens of players) are being made to wait because of a handful who are "leaders." Maybe those being obstinate should simply be replaced, ie. named, shamed and voted out of "service." It's a game. Get on with the re-skinning of the Houses!
    That is and remains an option, but as a last resort.
    What I'm wondering is, why do you care what the leaders have to say? I mean it seems like redoing the houses is more of a game administrative thing then an IC thing right?
    Because the players need to believe in the houses and what they stand for if there's going to be any chance of them thriving going forward. Being in their respective communities, they also have certain insights that we value, as with all feedback from our players. 

    They're certainly not obligated to be a part of the process, by any means (but I haven't had anyone decline to be involved). We're not trying to offload the work onto the players, we're just offering as much opportunity as possible for the leaders and their associated organisations to help shape the future of it!

    As I've said a few times, there's a huge number of moving parts, and while this is taking longer than we'd all like, we're trying to make these orgs sustainable for the next 17+ years of Achaea! 

    Quote saved for when the next huge organizational change comes through realm (I bet it won't take 17 years!). 

    People who are leading Houses now are only one small iota of the playerbase -- and  I can't grasp why their input is more important than anyone else's. Achaea, to me, is still operating in silos (Leaders, ACC, etc. - basically insular units) when collaboration and teamwork could and should be encouraged. Just my two cents.
    KakotasValkyre
  • NimNim Member Posts: 2,015 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    Tael said:
    And there's definitely something to be said for these groups: it would be a really terrible idea if we got rid of the ACC and just had average players trying to make combat balance decisions because regular players are frequently wrong about how the mechanics they want to change actually work,
    To nitpick, with the player-driven method of gathering information, smallish player-base, and often lack of information gathering standards, it's not merely inevitable that the average player would be wrong, but practically designed that way.

    Won't disagree that managing large groups of people giving input is both difficult and incredibly risky in general, of course, nor will I disagree that even with more transparent information, the average player would still be comparatively uninformed compared to a hardcore combatant. Just nitpicking.
    Shirszae
  • SarapisSarapis Member, Administrator Posts: 3,398 Achaean staff
    Bluef said:

    People who are leading Houses now are only one small iota of the playerbase -- and  I can't grasp why their input is more important than anyone else's. Achaea, to me, is still operating in silos (Leaders, ACC, etc. - basically insular units) when collaboration and teamwork could and should be encouraged. Just my two cents.
    Collaboration with players is exactly what is slowing the Renaissance process down so much, as the more people that are involved in a decision-making process, the slower it goes. We could have simply dictated and gotten this done much more quickly. Adding more players to the mix would compound the problem. We involve the leaders because you, the collective playerbase, have elected them as your representatives in matters relating to Houses and Cities, which is what the Renaissance is about. 
    TaelUlrike
  • KakotasKakotas Member Posts: 264 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Daslin said:
    Can't wait for Ashtan's changes. I wanna be Ashuran again. Wait, I mean in the combat house?

    Ashuran.
    Wait you mean we get to blow up Ashtan next? I'm on board for this...
    (Blades of Valour): He just has that Synbios Swagger enough said.
    (Blades of Valour): Draekar says: "Synbios if sunbeams sparkle off that I'll kill you where you stand."

    (Party) Halos says, "Disbar?"
    (Party) Draekar says, "You know here we have disbar."
    (Party) Draekar says, "And over there we have datbar."
    JhuiDaslinTael
  • KakotasKakotas Member Posts: 264 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Sarapis said:
    Jacen said:
    Can we hurry up with the Renaissance, so we can get through this awkward IC/OOC phase, where some people post about it in House news, talk about it on public channels, at public places like Crossroads, and some people vehemently deny anything is happening at all?
    I'm not directly involved in the Renaissance but I can tell you that the major thing making it go slowly right now is certain players in leadership positions being difficult or obstinate. Not going to name names, but they know who they are.
    Having worked with certain ones of those... I feel your pain...  Feel free to zap a few of them or re-enact the ten plagues till they manage to get their work done. Having re-written more of those files more times than I care to count it doesn't take that long...

    As far as my 2 cents goes it was consultation of the playerbase that got shallam into the pickle because a few "leaders" hijacked everything in an attempt to fix problems that were mostly political (IE serpents class ethos) and ended up blowing up the whole thing. Would have been better to come from divine because at least then the city could have done the whole "it's from divine we have to obey it" bit that shallam was pre-disposed to.

    (Blades of Valour): He just has that Synbios Swagger enough said.
    (Blades of Valour): Draekar says: "Synbios if sunbeams sparkle off that I'll kill you where you stand."

    (Party) Halos says, "Disbar?"
    (Party) Draekar says, "You know here we have disbar."
    (Party) Draekar says, "And over there we have datbar."
    AodfionnHalos
  • AntreusAntreus Member Posts: 131 ✭✭✭ - Distinguished
    Shirszae said:
    Addama said:
    What's the difference between Virtuosi and Outriders?  It sounds like they do more or less the same thing.
    Outriders = Exploration, History, Lore, Scholar activities, that sort of stuff
    Virtuosi = Crafts, Art, Culture , Artistic activities, that sort of stuff

    Sure, you could argue some things could fall on either side, but on the whole I think there is really very little overlapping because each has a distinct focus and feeling.
    I would venture to say that the Outriders are lacking another purpose that isn't listed: acting as reconnaissance, intel, scouts, and huntsmen - not just explorers. As @Addama says, there is a bit of redundancy in those listed activities, there's overlap: they are all categorically liberal arts and culture. I'm all about the Lore Keeper aspect of this House, but I can't help but think the term implies a bit more from this house to touch on the ranging/ranger/support aspects it implies. 

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Hey, girl."

    A male voice is heard through the membrane, "Are you an Apostate? ..because you just tore my heart out."

  • TrillianaTrilliana Member Posts: 1,989 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    There may be some overlap, but not from the Virtuosi. We are strictly arts and crafting. There's clans that the city has to allow for overlap, to create more of a sense of community (because there's crafters in the other Houses! There's scholars in other Houses! There's fighters in other Houses!) I really see it as something great because we are able to follow our passions. Plus it's funner!
    meh


    ShirszaeAntreus
  • SiduriSiduri Member Posts: 1,599 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    I've always considered the Targossian houses as a body:
    1) Dawnblade is the fighting arms.
    2) Harbingers is the creative mind and the mouth.
    3) Luminai is the senses (ears and eyes), and the cartesian mind making sense of this information, relaying to both Dawnblade and Harbingers.

    I see no overlap.

    image
    AodfionnSynbiosUlrike
  • TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited November 2014
    Siduri said:
    I've always considered the Targossian houses as a body:
    1) Dawnblade is the fighting arms.
    2) Harbingers is the creative mind and the mouth.
    3) Luminai is the senses (ears and eyes), and the cartesian mind making sense of this information, relaying to both Dawnblade and Harbingers.

    I see no overlap.
    While a neat theoretical division, I question the extent to which that is accurate in practice.

    In reality, people don't need nor generally make use of intermediaries for information. There has always been a desire for organisations that function as "information brokers" in the game, but I have never, ever seen it work ever. And I say this having been a fairly prominent member of the Naga, one of the only organisations where we actually got people who were extremely dedicated to and very good at gaining access to secret information (to the extent that that's possible when there are so many iron-clad ways to defend against spying in Achaea) for real-life years.

    We have telepathic communication. We have relatively small communities. The game just doesn't provide a situation where anyone actually needs an "information and logistics division", even if that would be fun to roleplay.

    And it is fun to roleplay, which is why people should absolutely be free to do so. But it isn't the sort of thing to build an entire house around. In fact, I would go so far as to say it functions best as exactly the sort of thing that Daeir suggested, a seedy RP underside to an organisation like his combined Harbingers+Luminai.
    VayneHalosAradorUlrike
  • SiduriSiduri Member Posts: 1,599 @@ - Legendary Achaean
    @Tael : I dare to disagree. Because you do not have clearance to read the Luminai reports does not mean they do not exist, or that they are not passed on and used by the leaders of the City and of the Houses.

    image
    HerenicusShirszaeUlrike
  • TaelTael Member Posts: 1,197 @ - Epic Achaean
    edited November 2014
    Huh. I'll be interested to hear how sustainable that ends up being.

    We tried to do it in the Naga and we had a number of people with frankly pathological amounts of patience dedicated to gathering and disseminating intelligence and we pretty much universally came to the conclusion that it just wasn't very useful or very viable for anything but RP, which is why we mostly focused the house on other things and just let people who were into that do it largely on their own (though of course we rewarded them handsomely when they succeeded). I can think of a couple of times where we found out something that was actually useful that other people in the city didn't know about already, but only a couple, in the span of probably something like five or six real-life years. And when people in the city tried to approach us for information the answer was essentially always "if you don't know about it, we probably don't know about it either".

    More importantly, even if it does work, it seems like a questionable basis for an entire house. It seems like it would have worked much better as a secretive sub-organisation (and, honestly, I think it would have allowed for more compelling RP for the preachy religious house to essentially be a front for a shady information-gathering sub-organisation).

    But oh well, glad that people are happy with it I suppose. That's obviously what matters in the end.
    Ulrike
Sign In to Comment.