House Renaissance

Jacen

Civilization vs Nature is cool, but it's kinda narrow and only pits Hashan against one other organization (well, its suborgs too, obv). Civilization is already pretty much a subset of all 5 cities (See: Targ terraforming for their city)

One idea I've really enjoyed tossing around is a very sciencey approach. Anti-religion, let's figure out how the world really works kinda thing. The problem I haven't figured out how to avoid is safeguarding against an anti-Divine mentality on our own side: I think its very important for the game that factional divine can come in and "fix" things every once in awhile, and that be an acceptable course of action for each city.  

Still lots of stuff to discuss, and I really need to alt into one of Mhaldor's Houses to get a good idea of how they work, since they're so different from the Targ/Cyrene approach.

Bade

Nature vs Civilization seems interesting as to another axis, and I agree that Night and Civilization could both agree at the same time, but I hope they don't bring the Merchantile idea back into Hashan, and I say this even though I loved the Merchant's of the Crown and the collective is awsome, but its better being kept out of cities, though I hope with the renassaince maybe some cities who wouldn't except members of that house will start. 

The other thing I want to comment on is this idea of a public front compared to the true mission of the house, I really think this would be awsome in Hashan. Even if it isn't there right at the start I hope this is something we can build into the new houses.

Alston

Two problems with a house being a front to a secret organization. It has a tendency to lend itself to horrible requirements because you don't want to just let everyone in on the secret. Also, all it takes is for you to make the wrong person mad and it is no longer a secret.

Bade

well the true mission of a house could be an official unofficial secret, for example a diplomatic house could be manipulating things behind the sceane rather than really making peace. Or a combat house could have a list of people they are trying ro assassinate. these are just examples but theyvwould change over time, in case somebody defects.

Saji

I find the idea of Nature vs. Civilization pretty interesting considering the beginning history of Hashan.   As @Jacen mentioned we are not the only city that encroached on the forest to make our homes, which means that Eleusis has a huge well to draw from in terms of RP/conflict. 

However,   If  Hashan were to adopt a Nature vs. Civilization stance, how would we keep it from stagnating into a never ending war with just Eleusis alone?  I think one of the goals of the city is to put ourselves out there a bit more and get into the fray of things along with everyone else. 

Hmm, I can’t get behind an anti-religious city, I like the idea of the cohesiveness that other cities/village share having that one deity (combing Targ’s deities here) and Their doctrine that they all follow. 

 

Also, @Asmodron, after reminding us about the Buckawns it kind of makes me wonder why Hashani bash them as some of us tend to do

Ruth

I fell asleep while writing this last night. A page late, but I guess my ideas for Eleusis are about similar to the flora/fauna perception. Names were made up for fun.

The Blackthorn Protectorate - hunters, rangers and guardians of the Wilds. Not only are they defenders of those who would harm and manipulate Nature for their selfish gains, but they are also pioneers and trailblazers of Nature's gifts and secrets in all its ancient splendor.

The Wildwood Quirers - historians, ritualists and weald-whisperers of Nature. They are fierce preservationists of the Wilds, believing that the world should be returned to its natural state. Always found in deep communion with the forests, they are therefore fixated on their continued growth and will strike out at those who seek to impede Nature's path or destroy her altogether. 

Asmodron

Saji said:

I find the idea of Nature vs. Civilization pretty interesting considering the beginning history of Hashan.   As Jacen mentioned we are not the only city that encroached on the forest to make our homes, which means that Eleusis has a huge well to draw from in terms of RP/conflict. 

However,   If  Hashan were to adopt a Nature vs. Civilization stance, how would we keep it from stagnating into a never ending war with just Eleusis alone?  I think one of the goals of the city is to put ourselves out there a bit more and get into the fray of things along with everyone else. 

Hmm, I can’t get behind an anti-religious city, I like the idea of the cohesiveness that other cities/village share having that one deity (combing Targ’s deities here) and Their doctrine that they all follow. 

 

Also, Asmodron, after reminding us about the Buckawns it kind of makes me wonder why Hashani bash them as some of us tend to do

As to the buckawns, basically it's because few even know or remember that story. Like in several of the IRE games, if someone is interested in the lore and hidden stories of the game, they have to delve into it. The buckawn is one such story. I should note that for some reason or another (in truth im not sure if the buckawns or the hashani leader betrayed the other first) the buckawns cursed the Hashan leader and his council and they become a group of undead zombies that can be found within the buckawn fortress, which im sure many of you have seen them in your travels but probably didnt know who they were .



Additionally, as to Nature and Civilization/Hashan, there are several other causes to conflict to mention.

- Gaia and Twilight have had quite the scuffles in the past, with Gaia actually having attempted to slay Twilight (actually zap him, but this was rather a debacle back then :P) and for attempting such was imprisoned, which later unfolds into the wyrm of the world event..or whatever his name was.

- Twilight had the rather interesting habit of enjoying to meddle with nature, having used his essence to not only 'touch' upon the Black Forest, but also completely morph the Darkenwood into what they are today, much to the annoyance of forestrals. During an event where nature was in some kind of peril, Twilight utilized His own means and, in his and his loyalers terms 'saved' the forests...which actually he made a rather large imbalance and caused darkness to seep in every forest.

- Additionally, the Northern Ithimia has been utilized by dark walkers in several fashions. You'll notice a part of ithmia that is rather blackened with a grotesque shrine. Was this the work of Dark Walkers or others? Who knows.

- Twilight was the 'unknown' force that pushed along the first human settlers in the Ithmia to build a settlement and rule over it. He additionally worked his magics to bring them up to strength, and it is this very shadowy magic that saw the rise of a shifty and sneaky people, which birthed such guilds as the serpentlords. Additionally, it was Twilight that was able to halt the attacks on Hashan by Gaia and Lupus in modern times, admittedly by using some silken words to convince lupus it isnt in his best interest to assist.


You can see why naturists generally will be quite distrustful of Twilight and Hashan.


Edit: Oh, how could I forget an important ingredient to this stew. Twilight has also always had a fascination with the undead, which, if one looks closely, he has often attempted to create. I think (not sure) that you'll find several experiments he has laying around in his realm. Twilight is somewhat considered the father to undead. Belladona looks to him with respect and calls herself a child of his realm. You can see why Thoth has very little love for him (additionally with Twilight attempting to steal Thoth's realm during the death heart saga event..) and why Gaia, a goddess of nature and life, would abhor his realm.

Additionally, I do believe it was through Twilight's will that the buckawns were taught how to create and mold undead, which was a key power they utilized to completely annihilate all the dryads in Northern Ithmia (which once was filled with them), thus giving Hashan the safety it needs to continue building.

Jukilian

Asmodron said:

*takes gloves off*

Okay, you want Hashan to shine?  To become something deliciously mouth-wateringly interesting? Well here's my suggestion..


DONT FOCUS ON A NIGHT THEME.


Really...I mean isnt it obvious from trial and failure that it just isnt working? It is just far too much of an ambiguous, complex, boring (dont zap plz), uneventful, non-advancing theme that did very little for Hashan. Im not saying destroy it, because it's always pretty to have around, im just saying LET IT DIE.

Tl;dr:
Focus Hashan on a concept of civilization and progress. Become the center of innovation and, to the fear of the forestrals, the expansion of cities and manufacturing.

Allow me to also take my gloves off.

I kinda laughed at that second paragraph. Hashan hasn't really focused on the Night in a very long time. Only recently had it really started focusing on it.

And how long has it been since you were Hashani?

Recently I'd say Hashan had being doing much better than it has for a very long time. A big part of this is a lot of new people getting involved. Removing the thorn that was the Serpent Lords (Hashan removed them, they didn't willingly choose to leave) has done a lot to help improve Hashan as well.

No offense, but unless you have an active alt in Hashan, most of the first half of your post comes across as baseless and condescending. I would say that there is a difference between an outsider perspective and a perspective such as what you brought forward.

As for Nature vs Civilization, Science, or Night..

I see no reason why they can't all be done at once.

Follow the Night, conduct scientific research, and as for Nature.. Exist. That's been enough to cause conflict with Eleusis.

Asmodron

Jukilian said:

Asmodron said:

*takes gloves off*

Okay, you want Hashan to shine?  To become something deliciously mouth-wateringly interesting? Well here's my suggestion..


DONT FOCUS ON A NIGHT THEME.


Really...I mean isnt it obvious from trial and failure that it just isnt working? It is just far too much of an ambiguous, complex, boring (dont zap plz), uneventful, non-advancing theme that did very little for Hashan. Im not saying destroy it, because it's always pretty to have around, im just saying LET IT DIE.

Tl;dr:
Focus Hashan on a concept of civilization and progress. Become the center of innovation and, to the fear of the forestrals, the expansion of cities and manufacturing.

Allow me to also take my gloves off.

I kinda laughed at that second paragraph. Hashan hasn't really focused on the Night in a very long time. Only recently had it really started focusing on it.

And how long has it been since you were Hashani?

Recently I'd say Hashan had being doing much better than it has for a very long time. A big part of this is a lot of new people getting involved. Removing the thorn that was the Serpent Lords (Hashan removed them, they didn't willingly choose to leave) has done a lot to help improve Hashan as well.

No offense, but unless you have an active alt in Hashan, most of the first half of your post comes across as baseless and condescending. I would say that there is a difference between an outsider perspective and a perspective such as what you brought forward.

As for Nature vs Civilization, Science, or Night..

I see no reason why they can't all be done at once.

Follow the Night, conduct scientific research, and as for Nature.. Exist. That's been enough to cause conflict with Eleusis.

Yes, your post just screams of experience and expertise.

Ruth

Everytime you say naturist I think of naked people, @Asmodron.

Achimrst

Wild Swarm(I'm horrible at names) - The people who wander Nature! Be it by boat or running around the forest making sure everything is ok! Basically all dedicated to the preservation and upkeep of all things desert, forest, mountain, hill or ocean!

Viridian People(See, horrible) - The people who dedicate themselves to the ideas and concepts of nature! Basically ritualism/knowledge!

Jukilian

We know of conflict with Eleusis.

We have conflict with Eleusis.

Changing Hashan to purely be enemied with Eleusis alone is limiting and will not lead to much growth, in my eyes. Hashan could be so much more.

Also, the sarcasm is surely appreciated.

Asmodron

Ruth said:

Everytime you say naturist I think of naked people, @Asmodron.

I thought that was the common eleusian fashion.. O.O

Tael

Regarding the "science" thing, it should maybe be pointed out that that's already been done (and I assume is still being done) elsewhere. There are a fair number of people in Mhaldor who have already been RPing something like Evil Empiricists for a long time. The whole Social Darwinism thing has been part of Mhaldor for a very, very long time. Incidentally, they manage to fit Sartan into it by basically treating him as a sort of Divine Francis Bacon, worshipped less because he's a god and more in thanks for enlightening everyone and teaching them about empiricism (and probably because, empirically speaking, Sartan is pretty terrifying). A lot of the earlier Evil faction writings are pretty explicit about that idea too.

And, honestly, the idea that scientists in Achaea would reject the Divine is sort of silly - no empiricist would reject gods who literally show up and perform miracles at regular intervals. No one who saw Targossas appear is going to look up at Aurora and Deucalion and say "I'm sure there's a reasonable, scientific explanation for this. It was probably just some sort of weather event.".

Jacen

I didn't mean reject them as if they didn't exist, or that they don't have amazingly powerful... powers. Science in Achaea is a lot different from real science. Its got to include spirits, magic, telepathy, multiple planes of existence, the Chaos and Creation realms, Nirvana and the Shadowrealm, Nishnatoba, the Fire behind the Flame, all that stuff.

So its not athiestic, its just... well, its like that quote, whoever said it."The magic of today is the science of tomorrow" (paraphrased). 

Sena

Aodfionn said:

@Sena‌I don't think having a third Eleusian house specifically for Nature vs Civilization would be particularly beneficial or worthwhile, given that that particular axis is very heavily tied in with several forestal Orders - to make it the responsibility of one house, would cheapen the RP of those orders as well as force all aspects of that RP into one house, when in theory it should apply equally to all the forestal orgs patroned by those Divine.

I didn't mean at all for one house to be the focus of the Nature vs Civilization conflict. Just that one house would basically focus inwards (defending Eleusis/Nature, growing the city, dealing with internal threats) while the other focusses outwards (seeking external threats before they have a chance to attack Eleusis/Nature, acting as diplomats and envoys with the other cities/orgs, gathering information through spying/espionage). Having the external-focussed house be a bit more xenophobic was just part of the flavour.

Eld

Jacen said:

I didn't mean reject them as if they didn't exist, or that they don't have amazingly powerful... powers. Science in Achaea is a lot different from real science. Its got to include spirits, magic, telepathy, multiple planes of existence, the Chaos and Creation realms, Nirvana and the Shadowrealm, Nishnatoba, the Fire behind the Flame, all that stuff.

So its not athiestic, its just... well, its like that quote, whoever said it."The magic of today is the science of tomorrow" (paraphrased). 

Not so much a rejection of religion as of zealotry. Or, if you prefer, a rejection of recieved Truth in favour of discovered truth.

Valentinus

Asmodron said:

Tl;dr:
Focus Hashan on a concept of civilization and progress. Become the center of innovation and, to the fear of the forestrals, the expansion of cities and manufacturing.

We're already set up to do this and it was in the plans, as far as I know.  Anyway, this was my experience from RPing in Hashan since 18 so I've been RPing it this way since I was a novice.

Asmodron

hmm, when looking at Hashan from an outside perspective, we also see a lot of different elements that makes it somewhat hard to find new house concepts without somehow upsetting or rejecting current culture. With the merchants and serpentlords now gone, this somewhat simplifies it down.

With houses, We have mystics and spiritlore from spiritwalkers, combat and martial arts from black lotus...hmm, sort of sounds like a monk (RL, not class) sanctuary or temple.

Anywho, we also have underlining themes of Night, Subterfuge, Civilization, and others im probably not recalling. Question is, how can we tie those into houses IF we were to keep to the current standing, and could it be something interesting? Because, currently im getting a very 'neutral' vibe from the selection.

Rangor

Ruth said:

Everytime you say naturist I think of naked people, @Asmodron.

I will found this house. 'The naked scorpions' we will scar you through nudity and raids.

Arador

You patron can be Viola

Synbios

Arador said:

You patron can be Viola

@Arador: The heraldic arms would be a pair of saucers. And a horse on each of them. You know what I speak of.

Florentino

Personally, I favor a 2-House division in Eleusis that doesn't explicitly split roleplayers/ritualists/scholars and fighters, but instead divides it based on stylistic leaning - this would loosely adhere to Artemis and Gaia. 

One House, "Shatterstone," could be very tribal and pack/hunt-like in nature. Think warpaint, primitive earth magicks, worship of the raw, primal power of Nature and a vicious opposition to city-dwellers. They would take the fight to the five city-states and fight against built-up denizen settlements as well, and would largely shun interaction with outsiders, focusing on communion with Nature and development of the abilities of forestal folk. Think true dirteaters/savages.

The other House, "Deeproot," would consist of Tsol'aa/Tsol'dasi-like Cabal of Life scholars and priests. They' be long-term planners of the supremacy of Nature, and a little bit more open to diplomacy, scheming, and proselytization. Think the more refined Tsol'aa/Tsol'dasi you see in the Aalen and Istarion.

Bluef

Florentino said:

Personally, I favor a 2-House division in Eleusis that doesn't explicitly split roleplayers/ritualists/scholars and fighters, but instead divides it based on stylistic leaning - this would loosely adhere to Artemis and Gaia. 

One House, "Shatterstone," could be very tribal and pack/hunt-like in nature. Think warpaint, primitive earth magicks, worship of the raw, primal power of Nature and a vicious opposition to city-dwellers. They would take the fight to the five city-states and fight against built-up denizen settlements as well, and would largely shun interaction with outsiders, focusing on communion with Nature and development of the abilities of forestal folk. Think true dirteaters/savages.

The other House, "Deeproot," would consist of Tsol'aa/Tsol'dasi-like Cabal of Life scholars and priests. They' be long-term planners of the supremacy of Nature, and a little bit more open to diplomacy, scheming, and proselytization. Think the more refined Tsol'aa/Tsol'dasi you see in the Aalen and Istarion.

I love this idea. The only issue I see with this is that there is some history to support an anti-chaos stance in Eleusis and the Cabal of Life, sadly enough, is a bunch of karma-holders. I don't know how that plays out RP-wise.

The Tower of Falaq'tor tsol'dasi are somewhat connected to Istarion as well,  and their connection to celestial symbology, such as the Moon and stars does also draw to mind the obvious lunar alliance with Chaos even though the place was founded as a memorial to Carme. 

Azelay

I read that second house as "DeerPoot". Yes, it is late.

Tibitha

Azelay said:
I read that second house as "DeerPoot". Yes, it is late.

I read it as "deepthroat", I will now go re-evaluate my life choices, please excuse me.

Eld

Tibitha said:

Azelay said:
I read that second house as "DeerPoot". Yes, it is late.

I read it as "deepthroat", I will now go re-affirm my life choices, please excuse me.

Kafziel

Those Houses sound basically like sylvans and sentinels

Kakotas

Kafziel said:

Those Houses sound basically like sylvans and sentinels

Eld said:

Tibitha said:

Azelay said:
I read that second house as "DeerPoot". Yes, it is late.

I read it as "deepthroat", I will now go re-affirm my life choices, please excuse me.

What have they been teaching the sylvans?...

Achimrst

Kakotas said:

Kafziel said:

Those Houses sound basically like sylvans and sentinels

Eld said:

Tibitha said:

Azelay said:
I read that second house as "DeerPoot". Yes, it is late.

I read it as "deepthroat", I will now go re-affirm my life choices, please excuse me.

What have they been teaching the sylvans?...

I'm a Sylvan so....what have we not been teaching