House Renaissance



  • Prythe said:

    There is an underlying lack of respect for what has been in the hurry to shape that which is to come.
    We tried doing the thing where we turn the new houses into mirrors of old houses/guilds - having the new orgs show "respect" for the old. We've tried it several times now. One of the points of the Renaissance seems to be that that didn't work as well as had been hoped.
  • Prythe said:

    It wouldn't hurt for the Garden to get feet on the ground and talk with the people who never have anything to say (which does not include me, obviously) and present clear choices and ask for real input - not of the "push poll" variety, but the real deal.

    There's a lot of reasons why decision making by committee doesn't work in this particular instance.  How, for example, do you compromise between eight or nine very different ideas of what Houses should be like?  Who ultimately decides which ideas to discard?  Do the loudest voices get heard as clearly as the smallest?

    Ultimately you still end up with the most active "leadership types" making the decisions anyway, it just takes a lot longer.
    ~Kresslack's obsession~
  • If Houses were done 'properly' to begin with, probably wouldn't be necessary for this to happen. :stuck_out_tongue: 

    (i.e. if Houses moved away from the Guild perspective on things, as in focusing everything for the most part around one particular class instead of one particular ideal).
  • Im just going to say that I was somewhat let-down by the Mhaldor event for the introduction of the new houses.

    The event starts with:

    "their estate to discover strange gashes in the masonry oozing viscid, black liquid onto the floor. When they investigated the pooling liquid, suffocation or entrapment within a strange fluidic space followed instantaneously."

    Which would have one believe that something rather epic is happening, perhaps a new enemy spawning its wrath in mhaldor, yet....

    "reached an unavoidable conclusion: the Spires must be sealed, and Mhaldor must regroup along new lines."

    Um...what about what the foozle happened? The damn walls were leaking ooze, and unless the mhun slaves have been slacking in their sewer duties, I'd like to damn well know why that was..

    "With the destruction of each Spire's entrance, they sensed the connections to their houses end."

    Why would the houses end just because the hall tumbled? Just because an org moves, doesnt mean it has been destroyed. An org is its people, not its lair. Additionally, still no reason why the frick this all happened, other than OOC reasoning of "New house setup".

     -This- is what I meant by the House renaissance events feeling very off-hand made. The coding part is being done excellently, as is natural for Achaea, but the events are highly lacking. There were hundreds of avenues to take for an interesting event to introduce new houses:

    - Mhun slave revolt. They broke through the sewers and began a raid of Mhaldor (ironic). Several sapper terrorists rushed past enemy lines to Baelgrim fortress and had it blown to smithrens. After the entire conflict with dozens of mhuns placed in shackles, Mhaldor sees a need to unite for stronger bonds to thwart any enemy getting this far again (or some such).

    - Feuding of Evil ideals: Conflicts between Suffering and Oppression leads to forming of new houses. Naturally, Sin and Vengeance standing in the background hoping for some spotlight time.

    - Sartan opens up the Inferno completely to Mhaldor, revealing the insidious secrets and natures within, as well as the Demon princes that thrive there. With the new knowledge and understanding, Mhaldor sees a need to form its houses under these new teachings of evil within to bring Sapience to hail beneath its fiery might.

    (sorry if some of these ideas seem a bit askew, writing them on the spot).

  • at least it was better then Cyrene's?

  • I actually enjoyed Cyrene's. The news post didn't have the build up that we were all experiencing. There was a point in which when a certain thing happened in the city, I had it triggered to the TARDIS sound. Then it happened more and more and the whole thing in the Sewers happened.

    I admit the whole... long hidden prophecy was kind of groan-worthy, how it was done was good.

  • Trilliana said:
    I had it triggered to the TARDIS sound.
    That's amazing.
  • Vayne said:
    Who says we have to wait for the admins? Renaissance starts early in some regards in Hashan, we are down to two houses now.
    Oh, I hope the event in Hashan will somehow involve the thieves guild in the sewer and the Prince of Thieves leader.
  • I was just pondering.. what would all you outsiders imagine three revamped or nnew eleusian houses as?
  • First, ask yourself, do we need three? :smiley: 
  • MelodieMelodie Port Saint Lucie, Florida
    edited November 2014
    Amarillys said:
    Eleusis strikes me as a two house town. Flora and Fauna. Flora is all about gaining knowledge, slowly spreading over the world. The idea of nature reclamation. Fauna is the hunt. The protection of the wilds but also the pursuit of culture. Where flora would be a little reclusive, a scholarly house of sorts, fauna would be lively, large event runners for the city. Combat would be more likely from fauna while flora holds debates, but like certain plants, fauna can easily be fighters as well. 
    This is an interesting idea!

    I'm not sure what I see Eleusian Houses as, as having been apart of the culture for a small while. I do feel like they could benefit from a similar set up to Mhaldor, in that they seek to serve Nature, but how they approach that differs from House to House. Whether two or three Houses, all should embrace combat on some level (defense of Nature should be a priority, Eleusis is back in the world stage, it should stay there).

    How exactly you want to split it up is a little more difficult - I feel like one House should absolutely embrace the savage, wild crazy Eleusians I know some of you guys want to be. Tribalistic, violent/passionate in their beliefs of Nature overtaking all, using both scare tactics or stealth to achieve their goals. Then a House maybe on the deeper, ancient parts of Nature, the secrets of the natural world, learning to tap into that to further their goals. Think like the tree ents from LoTR. This wouldn't just be about knowledge-gathering, but about slowly unveiling the mystery behind all of how Nature works, from the peaceful summer rain to the violent thunderstorm, etc.

    There could be room for a third House, I just can't think of another concept right this second. I'll give it some additional thought.

    Edit: Wow that kind of sounds really close to Mhaldor Houses and I absolutely didn't mean it to. 9am brain. I'll keep brainstorming!
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  • A third house could be weather. The ritualistic side to nature. Seasons, change. If flora seeks to reclaim nature and fauna seeks to guard nature, weather would be there to empower nature. Not sure how that'd work, but I also know very little about Eleusis...

  • edited November 2014
    As a complete outsider with very little idea of the inner workings of Eleusis/Oakstone and their houses:

    It seems like the current setup already fits pretty well with how Targossas and Cyrene are handled (splitting the houses by playstyle; though it seems there's not a lot of distinction between Druids and Sylvans), but it still has problems and is pretty tied to class. So I think the primary goal is to divorce the houses from the forestal classes, with a secondary goal of making the new houses different enough to shake things up a bit (which means splitting them up in a different way). Anything that leaves warriors vs scholars/priests as the main distinction is probably going to be too similar to what they already have, and so the old stagnancy/problems (whatever they may be) will remain.

    With that in mind, my idea: Three houses. One focussed on defending Nature (not just through combat. Think a mix of protectors and tenders), one focussed on studying/exploring Nature, and one focussed on actively seeking out and working against potential threats to Nature, including all cities (again, not just through combat, but also through espionage, diplomacy, etc.). If Eleusis's population is better suited to two houses, then drop the scholarly house (I mostly left it there as a clearly non-combatant choice, since Eleusis seems to have a large population of hardcore non-combatants). The main point of this is the internal/external distinction, with the bonus of having a house that's inherently antagonistic towards the rest of the world.

    As for lore/theme, I'm not sure. Something that promotes a wild/savage/tough image over the "kind and gentle" Nature would be good. Maybe you could go with animal motifs; Bears for the defenders, hornets for the invaders, owls for the scholars? Or maybe something like "Keepers", "Seekers", and something scholarly or explorer-ish ("Walkers"?). Or maybe Gaelic-inspired names (like leath-ri), though no obvious examples comes to mind beyond "Fomoire" or "Fomori" (though that's already used in Annwyn).
  • Ok guys - hold off on the jokes because I want to hear what you think could possibly work for Hashan in terms of Houses.  We have a very small population so I am thinking three Houses would not make much sense.  I know we are still struggling with Identity Issues and that’s a huge factor.  However, the Renaissance could really help the city reinvent its self.  I am  really interested in hearing some serious thoughts about Hashan, and not the just blow up the city kind of thoughts!

  • That was good
  • MishgulMishgul Trondheim, Norway
    I spat out my drink on that third house.


    One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important

    As drawn by Shayde
    hic locus est ubi mors gaudet succurrere vitae
  • On Eleusis I think two would be great, but I think we can definitely do three.

    On Hashan I think you guys should focus on the Alchemy parts of things and unite the city around Night. Have one house deal with Theology of Night, especially the divine of Night, and one that is knowledge. I think the army should be left to combat stuff I don't know why a combat specific house is ever really needed I mean you're all on the same city.
  • edited November 2014
    For Eleusis, I really like the Flora and Fauna thing (though they ought to have something a bit more exciting for the names). In a sense, I think this is very much like the Mhaldor houses from what I've seen of them: you have one house that's focused inward, protecting and celebrating Nature from within, and one house that's focused outward, focused on external threats to Nature and the corrupting influence of the city-states. The thing that I think I like so much about that system is that it both splits the orgs up by playstyle (clearly the external one is going to be a bit more combat-focused for instance), but without making the lines of demarcation too strict - it still makes sense for there to be combatants in the inward-facing house, they just serve (at least nominally) in a different combat role. It's sort of the best of both worlds - separation by playstyle without letting playstyle determine RP too much.

    I think Hashan is in the pretty unique position of having a great opportunity to make something completely new, and I'm really hoping that's what happens. More than any other city (and particularly without the Serpentlords, which wouldn't have worked with multiclass anyway), Hashan can get away with simply ignoring their historical houses and making something very, very interesting here. As with the other cities, there should probably be a combat/noncom division of some kind, but that leaves a lot of room for variation. A combat house in Hashan with its renewed focus on the Night might be a combat house that focuses less on soldier RP and more on assassin-style RP. A noncom house might be, nominally, a merchant consortium (paying homage to the Merchants of the Crown and offering an actual place for people who want to focus on that sort of thing), but in fact function as a sort of front for spies and masters of esoteric rituals and knowledge. There's a lot that could be done I think.

    I disagree pretty fundamentally that Hashan should focus on the alchemy stuff. I know that a lot of people have this desire to see alchemist become a semi-factional class, but it's largely too late for that. While it fits well thematically with the whole Night thing with the esoteric knowledge and all that and with existing Darkwalker stuff, alchemy is already a thing in the game that is tied pretty explicitly to cities in general, not to Hashan specifically.
  • I wasn't suggesting Flora and Fauna as names, for the record! Just as... ideals :P

  • AodfionnAodfionn Seattle, WA
    @Sena‌I don't think having a third Eleusian house specifically for Nature vs Civilization would be particularly beneficial or worthwhile, given that that particular axis is very heavily tied in with several forestal Orders - to make it the responsibility of one house, would cheapen the RP of those orders as well as force all aspects of that RP into one house, when in theory it should apply equally to all the forestal orgs patroned by those Divine. 

    Aurora says, "Are you drunk, Aodfionn?"
  • edited November 2014
    Asmodron said:
    *takes gloves off*

    Okay, you want Hashan to shine?  To become something deliciously mouth-wateringly interesting? Well here's my suggestion..


    Really...I mean isnt it obvious from trial and failure that it just isnt working? It is just far too much of an ambiguous, complex, boring (dont zap plz), uneventful, non-advancing theme that did very little for Hashan. Im not saying destroy it, because it's always pretty to have around, im just saying LET IT DIE.

    Let's roll back to Hashan's wait, that's too far, we want post-forest, there we go.

    Look at Hashan, it was literally a civilization that choose a spot in the forest, cared little for what forestrals thought, and decided to cut these trees down and make a home. It didnt ask if it could live there, it took it and made itself the king of the north ithmia. Fights broke out, with angry wild hairy forestrals throwing rocks at brick-houses to try and get them off their land. Hashan, undiscouraged, got it chainsaws and continued to cut those trees down. What did we get from all this:


    Ah, what a glorious concept. Civilization seeing that progress was the way to advance in life  and bring great innovations to the land, and the natural which saw that life is only worth living in commune with the natural world around us. This boys and girls is what we call a conflict of interests and morals.

    But wait...there's more. What's that in the corner? Inside the shadows...why seems to be a bit of forgotten Hashani lore...interesting, let us delve into it.

    It seems that, during Hashan's early days as a budding civilization, that the people there were being hampered too strongly by the forest creatures and dryads and were beginning to lose faith. The current leader sought a solution, and discovered the Buckawns. Such odd creatures they were, they promised they could remove this threat, naturally at a price. And so, it was with this dark pact done, that the buckawn, ancient enemies of the dryads, drove off the forest warriors, slaying them in a bloody mess. Till this day, the buckawn fortress stands near to Hashan, a secret alcove of a pact long forgotten.

    Oh look! Another wonderful story to follow up on. *wink wink*

    Focus Hashan on a concept of civilization and progress. Become the center of innovation and, to the fear of the forestrals, the expansion of cities and manufacturing.
    Yes! More Nature vs. civilization would be great. And making Hashan vs. Eleusis a sort of "canonical" axis of conflict again would be wonderful. I know Eleusis has historically complained that being set up against every city at once was sort of unsustainable, but having a sort of permanent conflict with Hashan could be really fun (by permanent conflict I mean something more in the vein of Mhaldor vs. Targossas and less like the sort of endless cold war that's been going on for most of the game's history).

    Also, while I agree that Night is not a great overall theme from a gameplay standpoint, I think the key thing to remember is that there's room for both. Night fits very naturally into just about any other thing as a sort of seedy secret underbelly.

    Having a city that's main focus is on civilization and taking control of Nature fits pretty well with the kind of thing I meant to suggest - it's not hard to imagine an expansionist mercantile house representing the economical side of civilization, but with a secret esoteric sub-organisation, nor a more traditional standing army that secretly harbours shadowy assassins and violent rituals.

    I think the main thing I wanted to get across was that houses don't have to have one, single, official focus. If you want to have some super-secret esoteric knowledge organisation, if anything it makes more sense to wrap that up in an organisation that essentially acts as a front (said front simultaneously providing a place for people who are less interested in the esoteric stuff). For instance, while the house is, according to its members, doing just fine, I think the Luminai would have made a lot more sense as a secret organisation within the Harbingers for instance. For Hashan and the whole Night theme, that makes even more sense.
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