House Renaissance

Herenicus

Vayne said:

I do not think an overarching knighthood-like system would threaten the relevance of the houses at all with the new supremacy of the city.

Yes, but why stop at one archetype? And what's leftover?

Mishgul

I am planning to delegate the creation of a Knighthood program once the Houses are fully fleshed out. Everything is still needing a lot of work so I apologise on behalf of my slaviceroys if there are any issues and I will ensure @Ruth gets the recommended amount of lashes for any problems that arise in the next few weeks. I would like to go into more detail, but once the initial setup is complete you guys can give us some proper feedback and also help out where possible. Nothing is set in stone (nor should it ever be in my opinion), so there will be plenty of opportunities to get the hammer and chisel out soon.

Herenicus

I know I'm a-gnawing like a dog on a bone, but singling out the knights as being important enough to continue as an overarching city program invites the thieves, clerics, and other major archetypes to do likewise.

Nakari

I thought that was the point.

Herenicus

Nakari said:

I thought that was the point.

If responsibility for the culture and traditions supporting the defining roleplay of knights, thieves, clerics, mages and other archetypes is moved from the two Houses to these city programs, we find ourselves back at the uncomfortable question of relevance.

Nakari

I disagree. I feel that the new houses have been designed to provide overarching structure and a role within the city for characters, while leaving room within them for more specific archetypes. I think the houses of the other cities have shown this to be the case rather well, with the houses providing a good overarching role (fighter, scholar, w/e), but not really providing serious guidance for archetypes.

Herenicus

Nakari said:

I disagree. I feel that the new houses have been designed to provide overarching structure and a role within the city for characters, while leaving room within them for more specific archetypes. I think the houses of the other cities have shown this to be the case rather well, with the houses providing a good overarching role (fighter, scholar, w/e), but not really providing serious guidance for archetypes.

Houses do not seem to arch over much if knights, thieves, clerics, mages, etc. are given their structure and roles somewhere else, instead.

Mishgul

The specific clan i'm holding onto is the infernal clan post Infernal Guild breakdown, pre Mhaldor, which has a lot of sentimental value as it's essentially the origin of Mhaldor.

You are right, there is a lot to ponder in regards to the history and future of each of the archetypal roles that have existed in Mhaldor. Unfortunately I cannot really give you much information in regards to what will happen. I phrased myself incorrectly early. What I said was "I am planning to delegate the creation of a Knighthood program once the Houses are fully fleshed out".

What I should have said was, "I am planning to see whether it's viable to create a Knighthood clan within what we have done once everything is ready." I do not want to devalue any of the past organisations that Mhaldor has had in terms of importance. What happens, happens. First we'll see how the houses will fit everyone in, and then if there is a need to create "specialisations" we'll sort that out when we get to it.

Herenicus

Targossas introduced Houses based on playstyle (fighters, info-gatherers, proselytizers) and signaled that the days of dividing players by class were over. Cyrene followed the concept with its split between fighters, explorers, and artists. Now Mhaldor is dividing between extroverts and introverts? Was dividing by playstyle not working out for the other cities? I'm just not there, man, but I want to believe!

Arador

As I see it, the Houses are more focused on the type of person you are. The Schools are focused on what you want to do with your life. Some can exist to share resources. For example, all four  of houses did history and geography training. All essentially duplicating efforts. Now you combine that into a single school so you have more people interacting on the subject. Same with combat etc. You can, after basic requirements, choose if your want to continue in these schools to hone your character in a certain area. 

Then you have the archetype schools if you want. Once again they can leverage the other skill schools but joining one of these is if you really want to specialise as a certain archetype. Spy school might have you focusing more time in geography since you need to know your way around as well as group combat school so you can learn to function as a unit aka Naga gank squad. 

The point is you do not have to go for an archetype, you can grow in any way you like, but there is still a lot of appeal in certain archetypes and the option is there. 

Addama

Mhaldor is more about combat than any other city - mandatory army service, for example (by contrast joining Targ Army is kind of like getting off the island in Lost) - so it would make sense that they wouldn't entertain the notion of a non-comm House.

Herenicus

Reducing Mhaldor to a single playstyle (PvP) divided into two Houses based on personality (extraversion or introversion) does not sound like the general aim to me.

Ernam

Um, nevermind?  Was just a joke...

Mishgul

Ernam said:

Mhaldor is about Combat?  Someone should tell the Mhaldorians.

Not in this thread please

Herenicus

We're trying to have a grown-up discussion, @Ernam,

Mishgul

Herenicus said:

Reducing Mhaldor to a single playstyle (PvP) divided into two Houses based on personality (extraversion or introversion) does not sound like the general aim to me.

All Mhaldorians are expected to consider themselves expendable at all times. Combat is not really worth devoting an entire house to in my opinion. The progression within that house would be really one dimensional and dull with Mhaldor's setting.

Herenicus

Would a fighter House in Mhaldor have been so much worse than the two in Targossas and Cyrene? Every black-clad s.o.b. is expected to pitch in, of course, but developing 1v1 expertise and group combat leadership must not be /that/ one-dimensional and dull considering how many players devote the bulk of their time and energy to PvP. Why not put these cats in one place?

Suladan

While there is still the full range of skill-level in combatants in Mhaldor as there is in any city, the whole population can and does get called on regularly to fight. Whether it be a raid or a compulsory FFA, etc. This is simply the culture. Partly it's based on our philosophy and party from necessity, as simply being Mhaldorian gets you jumped now and again.

The Houses themselves are more arranged around the general concept of how to take over the world. One is blatant. One is more subtle. One will convert or kill you. One will poison your mind with regular stabs until you turn to the Evil side. It's not an introversion-extroversion thing, it's blatant or subtle.

Either way we're taking over the world, it's just how we go about doing it. That's the viewpoint.

Omi

Herenicus said:

Would a fighter House in Mhaldor have been so much worse than the two in Targossas and Cyrene? Every black-clad s.o.b. is expected to pitch in, of course, but developing 1v1 expertise and group combat leadership must not be /that/ one-dimensional and dull considering how many players devote the bulk of their time and energy to PvP. Why not put these cats in one place?

Agreed. I was confused by the new houses at first as well. I was hoping it would be one focused on ritual/theology, which is what I thought Congregation was going to be centered around when Omi joined up, and the other on combat/military ect.
As is I don't really see what the big difference between the two is (asides from extrovert/introvert basis') and don't really know which would be better for Omi. I'll likely go with Legates cause that's where @milenka is going.

Atalkez

Subjugator Atalkez al'Dejan, Legate of the First Order

Fkin nice Imo

Much excite

Addama

Such prestige

Much wrestler names

Wow

Ruth

I say you should probably wait to experience the Houses once they've been properly furnished. Right now, there's still a lot of work to be done to flesh out and make the division more simplistic and understandable, not just on the Garden but also on the founding members.

The Houses have barely lived a day! Let it live a little once everything is done and they are opened for public induction. Lots more shaping will need to be done after actual experience feedback is gathered.

Addama

Oh come on Atalkez, The Subjugator is deffo a wrestler name.  You know it.

Arador

The classical Fighter House and Scholar House would certainly work but I fear you lose out on two regards. 

1. When a House focuses on one thing you lose flexibility. The fighter house will most likely take combat as the be all and end all and as such only reward progress in that area. "Sure you can do rituals on the sideline but we are not going to give you much recognition or reward for it." I think you should be able to grow in the areas that you like and be rewarded for that, regardless of the area. 

2. You lose a possibly interesting mechanic of inter-house competition. Sure not all scholars will suck at combat and not all combatants will be brain dead, but in combat tournament or a debate or a sermon competition or a capture the flag you can safely say who will come out on top and that makes the other side feel less inclined and motivated to participate. 

Valaria

it is like army is where everybody can join, but that house is honed to make you among elite fighters... well.. transforming you into a elite soldier and so on...

Jacen

My first thought was that House Insidium was just the Culture Ministry in House form.

Its a pretty radical take on the Renaissance, will definitely be interesting to see how it shapes up.

Herenicus

Suladan said:

The Houses themselves are more arranged around the general concept of how to take over the world. One is blatant. One is more subtle. One will convert or kill you. One will poison your mind with regular stabs until you turn to the Evil side. It's not an introversion-extroversion thing, it's blatant or subtle.

But just like @Arador mentioned re: flexibility, many or most people appreciate on some level that differing situations call for varying shades of sophistication or circumspection. It follows that few people would distinguish themselves as consistently roleplaying ham fists or a light touch such that you could build entire Houses around these concepts.

People best distinguish themselves by what they elect to spend their time doing. That is why the other Houses to date have been structured by playstyle. A House for 1v1 and groupfight aficionados and another House for explorers, lore buffs, writers, and other creative types will allow fighters and writers to feed off one another and develop together in communities that make sense.  

Saeva

Mhaldor is built around the 7 Truths, right? The truths that demand that one is  to become more by combat. If an entire city's belief is built on that foundation then I am uncertain about arguing that there should be a noncom house. If you want that, there are a lot of options in a lot of cities, but I don't see that being a Mhaldorian mode of operations. Sure there are noncoms in Mhaldor and there is plenty of time to focus on things like writing, art etc. but making a house that caters to that would be poor role play imo.

Herenicus

There are several activities in Mhaldor (ritualism, theology, exploration) that, taken together, add up to significant non-com interest and gives Mhaldorian roleplay more than a single dimension. I'd say that catering to that which deepens and expands play options beyond combat is smart and maybe necessary.

Edit: None this is to say that combat isn't or shouldn't be part of the fabric of Mhaldorian roleplay, etc., etc. But let's not limit ourselves to two flavors of a single playstyle that ignores the richness and depth that Achaea advertises.

Herenicus

And realistically, the alternative divides combat instructors between two all-class Houses with parallel combat programs. Having these guys in one place would eliminate duplicative work and ensure that whatever class Novicecombatant picks, somebody in that House knows how to help him or her learn to fight.