House Renaissance

Jukilian

I think the problem is more of the whole "naming and shaming" business, which wasn't necessary at all, IMO.

Blujixapug

Ryldagh said:

If the novice in question picked Khaibit, someone who focuses on exploring and making money, but then doesn't like exploring or doing what they can to make money at that level... perhaps the issue is that the novice picked the wrong mentor.

This comes across as you saying, "If they don't like this boring grindy task, they won't like any conceivable task that involves exploration or making money."

New players lack the context to know what they're getting into. How can they know which mentor is right or wrong, without first-hand knowledge? If they encounter something discouragingly tedious then most of them aren't going to speak out and take it up with someone in authority. They'll take the path of least resistance and quit, or go dormant and roll a new char. Or they'll play through it despite it being boring, which means you've effectively created selection criteria that will populate your House with boring people who enjoy boring grindy tasks (see Druids, Arcane Kindred for examples of what this will turn you into).

The responsibility is on the mentor, and by extension House leadership, to create fun tasks. Or at the very least non-grindy tasks, presented in a fun way.

Khaibit

Bukariin said:

Like I said before, my character would never do that.  It's not a reasonable course of action for a new character to ICly criticize their House before even getting to HR2.  It's bad RP on many levels.  He's getting his situation fixed ICly.

By 'dealing with it ic' you mean 'the first your mentor and most of the house heard about it was from an ooc forum?'

Asmodron

Khaibit said:

Bukariin said:

Like I said before, my character would never do that.  It's not a reasonable course of action for a new character to ICly criticize their House before even getting to HR2.  It's bad RP on many levels.  He's getting his situation fixed ICly.

By 'dealing with it ic' you mean 'the first your mentor and most of the house heard about it was from an ooc forum?'

Any TRUE mentor would have already known O.O.


(sorry, couldnt help it)

Bukariin

Khaibit said:

Bukariin said:

Like I said before, my character would never do that.  It's not a reasonable course of action for a new character to ICly criticize their House before even getting to HR2.  It's bad RP on many levels.  He's getting his situation fixed ICly.

By 'dealing with it ic' you mean 'the first your mentor and most of the house heard about it was from an ooc forum?'

God dammit do I have to really say it three times?

Bukariin said:

I'm bringing this into the open in an OOC fashion mostly because I don't want this complaint to be a reflection of the character in Warlocks (who would not, as an eighteen-year-old, try to throw a wrench in the gears without also having some IC respectability first).  I'm resolving it for the character in an IC fashion, but here, I'm trying to resolve it for other/future players who might judge this game rather unfairly if they were tasked to fill an order for 200 things that aren't exactly easy to collect.

In other words, it's not my place as this specific, new character to question mentor requirements.  Not only would it expose my character as an alt of somebody, but it would be totally inappropriate RP for a mentee to tell a mentor what works best.  I'm sure you can appreciate this.

For the record though, I did bring it to Ronit, and he was quite helpful guiding me toward a new Mentor.  Just because this news didn't reach you doesn't mean I wasn't resolving it ICly.

Halios

Khaibit there are a million ways to make money in achaea, most of which are fun and engaging.

Sending a novice off to trundle down the riverbeds of sapience grinding gold flakes so you can send them to another person to sell them off is at best self-serving and a shitty task, and at worst subversively abusing the ignorance of novices.

There is -no one- who signs on as a new player in a text game who wants to do that. It's hard enough to get true novices acclimated to emotes, says, tells, houses, cities, pk, afflictions, bashing, questing, without throwing them into a niche gathering subset and telling them to go gather 200 gold flakes.

I just don't see how you can defend that task.

Khaibit

Halios said:

Khaibit there are a million ways to make money in achaea, most of which are fun and engaging.

Sending a novice off to trundle down the riverbeds of sapience grinding gold flakes so you can send them to another person to sell them off is at best self-serving and a shitty task, and at worst subversively abusing the ignorance of novices.

There is -no one- who signs on as a new player in a text game who wants to do that. It's hard enough to get true novices acclimated to emotes, says, tells, houses, cities, pk, afflictions, bashing, questing, without throwing them into a niche gathering subset and telling them to go gather 200 gold flakes.

I just don't see how you can defend that task.

I was given the task as a novice, and all my proteges have had the same task, and none of them have ever said 'Bit... I can't do this, it sucks' before. 
They get paid well for it and explore the world. 
You also used to get more flakes more often, and could gather clay in the wilderness map when I did it, it took me about an hour to get the flakes. 
I wasn't aware of the change till someone mentioned it recently, because I haven't gathered flakes in a while. 

Halios

Khaibit said:

Halios said:

Khaibit there are a million ways to make money in achaea, most of which are fun and engaging.

Sending a novice off to trundle down the riverbeds of sapience grinding gold flakes so you can send them to another person to sell them off is at best self-serving and a shitty task, and at worst subversively abusing the ignorance of novices.

There is -no one- who signs on as a new player in a text game who wants to do that. It's hard enough to get true novices acclimated to emotes, says, tells, houses, cities, pk, afflictions, bashing, questing, without throwing them into a niche gathering subset and telling them to go gather 200 gold flakes.

I just don't see how you can defend that task.

I was given the task as a novice, and all my proteges have had the same task, and none of them have ever said 'Bit... I can't do this, it sucks' before. 
They get paid well for it and explore the world. 

Druids had ridiculous essays and nit-picky interviews and the ability to kick people out of their guild and cost them 2/3 or whatever of their lessons for centuries IG.

Doesn't mean it was good for the game.

Khaibit

Bukariin said:

Khaibit said:

Bukariin said:

Like I said before, my character would never do that.  It's not a reasonable course of action for a new character to ICly criticize their House before even getting to HR2.  It's bad RP on many levels.  He's getting his situation fixed ICly.

By 'dealing with it ic' you mean 'the first your mentor and most of the house heard about it was from an ooc forum?'

God dammit do I have to really say it three times?

Bukariin said:

I'm bringing this into the open in an OOC fashion mostly because I don't want this complaint to be a reflection of the character in Warlocks (who would not, as an eighteen-year-old, try to throw a wrench in the gears without also having some IC respectability first).  I'm resolving it for the character in an IC fashion, but here, I'm trying to resolve it for other/future players who might judge this game rather unfairly if they were tasked to fill an order for 200 things that aren't exactly easy to collect.

In other words, it's not my place as this specific, new character to question mentor requirements.  Not only would it expose my character as an alt of somebody, but it would be totally inappropriate RP for a mentee to tell a mentor what works best.  I'm sure you can appreciate this.

For the record though, I did bring it to Ronit, and he was quite helpful guiding me toward a new Mentor.  Just because this news didn't reach you doesn't mean I wasn't resolving it ICly.

And.. how many proteges do you think I have? Or sent a message to yesterday, in that message you used to name and shame me?
You've exposed yourself as someone's alt far more quickly than if you had just said 'This task is a bit pants' to me in game. 
You yourself said you picked Bit as a mentor because she was helpful, why would you not think to talk to her first?

Austere

The requirement was dumb.  Can we please just stop asking novices to do dumb things,  quit arguing about it, and move on.  As someone who has bitched about the requirement numerous times, I will be very glad to see it go.  The intention was good,  but it isn't working and never will work.  

Don't even suggest I should have personally confronted someone about it.  I am not an aide and before a week ago,  I had no power.  Not my place to tell people what to do with their protégés when I accept none because I am unwilling to devote the time to one single person.  Much better to complain to HoN and HL, or put suggestions in house logs like "I will hf the first person who makes it a rule we cannot demand our novices gather flakes.", which I did months ago. 

Daloren

I felt this was an interesting read, now of course I can speak only from a "Novices"  or (Newbs  ) perspective on the matter. 

The dynamic of the games interested me the most, the fact that Mentors have the ability to creates task of their own valition adds to that compelling flair. 

Though to some or many the mundane task of collecting these "Gold Flakes" would seem a bit redundant it is a task that seems to have had been a part of @ 

Daloren

ve just completed it and never looked back, for the fact that in any game those sort of quest exists. If Achaea truly is as immense I would like to believe it to be, a little gathering quest would fail to deter me.

P.S. Please don't hate me I am only level 10 and have no idea what I am saying. :'

Daloren

Daloren said:

ve just completed it and never looked back, for the fact that in any game those sort of quest exists. If Achaea truly is as immense I would like to believe it to be, a little gathering quest would fail to deter me.

P.S. Please don't hate me I am only level 10 and have no idea what I am saying. :'

This post is horrible....I hate phones.

Bukariin

Daloren said:

in any game those sort of quest exists. If Achaea truly is as immense I would like to believe it to be, a little gathering quest would fail to deter me.

That doesn't mean such quests have to exist.  In a lot of games (see: WoW) they're lazy busy work.

And it's not a little gathering.  You collected 200 flakes?  How long did that take? 

Drodak

Bukariin said:

Daloren said:

in any game those sort of quest exists. If Achaea truly is as immense I would like to believe it to be, a little gathering quest would fail to deter me.

That doesn't mean such quests have to exist.  In a lot of games (see: WoW) they're lazy busy work.

And it's not a little gathering.  You collected 200 flakes?  How long did that take? 

One could easily say an mmorpg is in and of itself just a busy work time sink with nothing tangible to show for your efforts in the real world other than having your very own tear in the fabric of reality where you throw time and money never to be seen again. 
In any event I have been playing games since the atari 2600 and I promise that gathering 200 flakes is not this insurmountable task you make it out to be. I suggest using Mosr's gathering script as all you have to do is walk into the room and auto gather. Not everyone wants a game experience where they are coddled as the house promotions are handed out to them for no reason. I have been able to find tons of free scripts and info on the game with just the magic of google.

Stuneree

Regarding "resolving a tedious task IC assigned by your mentor" deal...

If a Mhaldorian novice complained that a task was too much or pointless IC, they'd be killed...
So I think this is an OOC deal. Maybe via messages though.

Valaria

when i played as apostate(for my hidden alt), i think one of hassle thing to do to pass the convert is to create my own 'unique' custom emote. no giggling and all that. come on, i'm too lazy to make one. :disagree: 

Stuneree

@Valaria‌ I typically give Malefics this outline to work from: Something to resemble dissatisfaction, a bow, some form of smile, and then two that somehow represent your character non-emotion related. Fiddling with a beard etc.
And honestly, some default emotes are so rare and distinct that I'm sure 95% of the population doesn't even recognize them... Use those ;D

https://sites.google.com/site/senasharpfang/emote-list

Jeslyn

@stuneree Thanks for that emote list. It's fantastic!

Perhaps I play a lot of menial mmorpg games, but I do actually enjoy collecting things for tasks. Just anything but an essay. Holy hell, one RPI game I played for years required an essay for every advancement or just when the guild felt like it. I think the higher ups just enjoyed torturing people slowly, but it was pretty entertaining to see newbies rage quit over all of the writing. 

Asmodron

Valaria said:

when i played as apostate(for my hidden alt), i think one of hassle thing to do to pass the convert is to create my own 'unique' custom emote. no giggling and all that. come on, i'm too lazy to make one. :disagree: 

Ah, apostate. Good times, good times. Those ninja Eliminates were always so fun, especially if the person thinks entangling will stop you!

Talysin

...Entangling does stop you.

Jacen

I thought pacify was like, the only thing that would stop you.

Shara

Stuneree said:

Regarding "resolving a tedious task IC assigned by your mentor" deal...

If a Mhaldorian novice complained that a task was too much or pointless IC, they'd be killed...
So I think this is an OOC deal. Maybe via messages though.

But this is Ashtan and the Warlocks... if you read our HNT logs, you would laugh a lot at the fact we aren't doom, gloom, and srsbsns all the time. We're not P9, but we got jokes. Lord @Erhon "punished" Shara with a bad title (Grounded ad Infinitum) after a CT joke that was better kept on HNT at his expense. We're an easy lot to get along with.

There have been a few Novices who have already complained about their Mentor tasks/availability and changed mentors with ease in the last RL month or so. So if he wants to hide behind, "my young character hasn't the backbone to say anything," that's fine... he made his choice of Mentors. Buy the flakes, quietly enlist some fellow Novices or others to help, or just get it done. (HR3 has a bigger list of tasks.) There is no time limit to taking on a Mentor. If he felt pressured by a Mentor to choose them, he could easily change and be told about his options if he mentioned it to another Warlock. Come tell Shara, she'll get it straightened out. She loves her some Novices and has ensured a few didn't quit/re-roll since she joined the House.

Also, I agree, messages probably would have come off better than forum post rant in a non-rant thread.

Talysin

I think that entangling only doesn't stop you from dying on the last message or something. Either that or @Vaehl has been throwing fights.

Asmodron

Talysin said:

I think that entangling only doesn't stop you from dying on the last message or something. Either that or @Vaehl has been throwing fights.

hmm, I just recall using eliminate and then having some people trying to throw a hangedman thinking it'd thwart it only to die after.

Valaria

I think mhaldor should have 're-education' policy enacted by punishing someone's behavior by force them through hard labor to gathering 200 gold flakes.  

Jovolo

Loads of things stop eliminate, it's just that Syphon will often cure it before it kills you (usually paralysis). Things like entangling and web will definitely stop it, because they can't be passively healed.

Asmodron

The Achaea House Renaissance

Jacen

Lol its funny because it's so wrong.

Bukariin

On that subject, is Ashtan just waiting until they're obligated to Renaissance their Houses by virtue of everybody else having done it already?