Quick Questions

Kiet

Valkyn said:

Katsuragi said:

Is deepseafishing affected by one's survival skill as well?

It is.

Last I heard it actually wasn't, but I'm not sure if anyone has evidence one way or the other

Shirszae

From what I've seen of people fishing without Survival, I'd say it pretty much is.

Sena

Seafaring definitely doesn't influence fishing (beyond giving you the ability), so it would be strange if survival didn't because it would mean that nothing at all influences your deepsea fishing other than your tease/jerk timing, and you could be an expert deepsea fisherman when you can barely manage to catch the tiniest and weakest of freshwater fish.

Tael

@Sena, I decided to see what average sips look like after you said it wasn't uniformly distributed last time you tested. This is with a Level 2 sip ring, 13 con, level 52, 2536 max health.

It looks like it actually is a pretty uniform distribution, and the average actually looks to be almost exactly 100.5%.

Klendathu

Is it possible o upgrade artefact powers not on their original items through in game commands?

Antonius

It should be, though I recall reports of it not working properly when artefact powers were first released. Syntax should be in the help file.

Klendathu

Ah, yes, found it now in the help file, didn't show up when I just used ARTEFACT POWER...

Rouillier

'Lo, all.  Currently a SnB Paladin, Xoran Ward, level 79.  I'm planning on getting 80 today.  Major traits are nimble, constitution, and will be lucky.

I have a few arties from retiring my lusty toons.  Included in those is a level 2 health sip ring, level 3 sword, and SoA.

I've been struggling with the decision to go strength spec instead of constitution spec (without changing my traits).  This would bring me up to a 21str disembowel (which, according to @Antonius would be a 97% disembowel).

My questions, however, are about health levels.  

1.  What's the formula for max health here?  Lusty's recently got revamped, and I doubt the original is the same.

2.  What's a good health threshold for upper-tier bashing?  I'm currently able to do most of Dun Fortress (including the rooms of 4 and 5 orcs), Mirror Caves, and Creville without having to worry much at all.  I don't want to gimp myself in the bashing area, as I'd like to get dragon relatively quickly.

3.  What's a good health threshold for upper-tier PK?  I'm not that great yet, but I'd like to be.

Sena

Health formula is (3*Con+4)*Level+300, then above level 100 it's reduced by (Level-100)*20.

Resistances, armour, healing, etc. are as important as health for bashing, so there's no specific threshold to aim for. A blademaster with 6k health will probably have more difficulty than a runewarden with 4k, for example. You should be fine as a SnB paladin with 14 con (xoran + str spec + con trait + weathering), especially with a couple defensive artefacts.

For PvP, I've always heard that around 4k health is good enough, I don't fight at all myself though so I'm not sure.

Kafziel

With 4.5k health Ainly mangled both my legs with half a doublewhirl. At least that's what it felt like

Citrus

Rouillier said:

2.  What's a good health threshold for upper-tier bashing?  I'm currently able to do most of Dun Fortress (including the rooms of 4 and 5 orcs), Mirror Caves, and Creville without having to worry much at all.  I don't want to gimp myself in the bashing area, as I'd like to get dragon relatively quickly.

You're probably already fine for hunting.  I'm level 95 and can't really tank the rooms with 4-5 orcs, but I'm two-handed specialisation and kill quick enough that I don't really need to tank them.  With your SoA though you can most likely tank higher level areas already, just might kill slowly without many crits.

Caelean

Would my mentor get anything if I were to purchase no-brainer things? Or lessons from the sale?

Yae

Caelean said:

Would my mentor get anything if I were to purchase no-brainer things? Or lessons from the sale?

I'm not sure about the no-brainer, but I think I got something from one of my proteges purchasing a bunch of lessons. Would wait for more folks' input, though.

Aegoth

Mentors get nothing from no brainers

Kayeil

@Sena - is there a formula for figuring out where one's sip threshold and moss threshold should be depending on their artefacts? I feel like I'm sipping and eating moss way too often. I have level one bracelets, no con, no sip, no runes.

Antonius

Average sip, without bonuses, is 100 + 15% of maximum health. As a straight percentage, that would be (10000 / max health) + 15. Subtract that amount from 100 and set your sip percentage to that. Subtract a further 8% for moss/potash, and set your moss percentage to that. If you want to get fancy, you can move your moss/potash percentage up to 92% while off sip balance, and increase both to a much higher value if you're in a position where you're likely to take a big spike of damage (prone + impaled against a Knight, for example) so you're going to be as high as possible beforehand.

Sena

It's too situational to give an explicit formula. The optimal time for sipping/moss while bashing depends on the opponent(s)'s damage and attack speed, and the time until their next attack(s), as well as how much health you're missing and how much you'll be healed. There's not a big difference between "optimal" and "poor" though, probably the biggest impact in most situations would be healing when you're barely damaged (and even then it only matters much if you take a lot of damage right after healing).

If you just want to conserve resources while bashing, I'd sip when you're missing a little more than your average sip (70 + 15% of max health, before sip bonuses), or your maximum sip for easier things (84 + 18% of max health, before sip bonuses), and use moss/potash at around 10-15% below the sipping threshold (and then only when hunting things that you can't handle with just sipping). At <1 gold per sip and 5-6 gold per potash though, I never worry too much about the cost.

If you do want to script much more complex logic (rather than just using simple health limits) that covers both conserving resources in easier situations and staying alive in tough situations, I can come up with a recommendation for that if you'd like. It's not likely to give a huge benefit over simple healing thresholds though.

Edit: This post mostly addresses bashing, since I don't fight.

Tesha

Mentors don't get anything from no-brainer purchases of any kind, and no-brainer purchases count towards the first three purchases (as does the artifact cart and I presume other promotional sales). So if your protege buys the lessons twice, the credits, and then a set of 400 stock credits, you won't get the 5% mentor bonus from the 400 stock credits because they've already made three purchases.

Kayeil

Thanks so much for the info! I don't do combat either, so the hunting tips are all I needed. I appreciate it. 


Edit: Do I have to alter this as I level up and gain more health? I figure I'll have to alter if I upgrade bracelets, buy con, or buy sip.

Cooper

People have been asking a lot about what artefacts help them heal more/faster, so I made a spreadsheet that lays it out for you.

Doesn't calculate berkana because my if/and statement wasn't working.

Couldn't really figure out a nice way to format/display the credit efficiency, someone else can do that.

Edit: took link down for now, apparently open office didn't translate perfectly to google docs

Kayeil

Cool spreadsheet. Calculates my health too low**, though. hrm.

Edit: Accidentally said it was too high when I meant it's too low.

Cooper

Can't edit my post again, here's the fixed version:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eUXSDbHj4dOYC4pC-tBXQ-1kPzW-T74_t_zw45nKEEQ/edit#gid=1165262584

Google took out a () that was making the bracelet artefact calculate wrong for 100+ level people.

Also if anyone can suggest a more intuitive way to present that value of credits let me know.

Klendathu

Nifty spreadsheet, although some of your formulae could be more efficient...

Formula in G3 could be reduced from

=IF(A3<100,(((3*B3+4)*A3+300)),(((3*B3+4)*A3+300))-((A3-100)*20))

to

=(3*B3+4)*A3+300-IF(A3<100,0,(A3-100)*20)

etc

Cooper

I'm not a strong coder, this is about the max of my ability. I'm sure the whole thing could be more efficient.

Sena

For multiple conditions in an if statement for berkana, what you want are the AND/OR functions. So it would be IF(AND(condition1;condition2;condition3;...);then;else)

Katsuragi

So I've saved up about 120,000 gold, and transing things (vis-a-vis credits, ofc) is my main goal as of now.

Should I wait around for a credit sale even though there won't be a Cyrenian one for a couple of IG years or is there some other goodie I can spend it on? I've never had more gold than I knew what to do with before!

Esme

Katsuragi said:

So I've saved up about 120,000 gold, and transing things (vis-a-vis credits, ofc) is my main goal as of now.

Should I wait around for a credit sale even though there won't be a Cyrenian one for a couple of IG years or is there some other goodie I can spend it on? I've never had more gold than I knew what to do with before!

It's a lengthy process I've found if you aren't willing to speed it up by buying credits. My best bit of advice is to always have enough gold saved to participate in credit sales, but anything beyond that go ahead and spend on the credit market. You should always be able to save up enough for the next creditsale in between sales and since it's a long process, try to take advantage of credit sales as much as you can without hindering your progress to the point where it is dependent on them.

Klendathu

Katsuragi said:

So I've saved up about 120,000 gold, and transing things (vis-a-vis credits, ofc) is my main goal as of now.

Should I wait around for a credit sale even though there won't be a Cyrenian one for a couple of IG years or is there some other goodie I can spend it on? I've never had more gold than I knew what to do with before!

Set up an alias to "queue prepend eqbal get gold from backpack/credits buy 1000 credits at xyz", setting xyz to whatever the max value you're prepared to pay for credits, then when someone announces CFS on Market, hit your alias. If they're the same or lower price than the max you're prepared to pay, you'll get them. Faster than checking Credits For Sale then trying to buy.

Gamden

@Tecton / @Sarapis

Is the Harpooner trait still worth anything after ships weapons has been redone?

Tael

Kayeil said:

Thanks so much for the info! I don't do combat either, so the hunting tips are all I needed. I appreciate it. 


Edit: Do I have to alter this as I level up and gain more health? I figure I'll have to alter if I upgrade bracelets, buy con, or buy sip.

If you want to calculate the actual average sip amount, it's approximately this (not quite since the game uses integer division):

.15 * MAX_HEALTH + 70

If you have a sip ring, multiply that by 1.1 (for level 1), 1.2 (for level 2), or 1.3 (for level 3). Bracelet or con artefacts or leveling will increase your max health, so you'll have to recalculate it whenever any of those things change.

So if you want to know what to set CURING SIPHEALTH to and you have, for example, 5000 health and a level 2 sip ring (so a 1.2 multiplier):

100 - (.15*5000+70)*1.2/5000*100

(Average sip amount divided by MAX_HEALTH to get what proportion of your health each sip heals, multiplied by 100 to turn it into a percent, subtracted from 100 to get sip threshold.)

I have a script that automatically sets my sip to average and updates as necessary, but it's for HTML5 and isn't even slightly economical with the moss (it tries to maximise healing rate, which isn't necessarily what you want while bashing).