To be fair, she doesn't have half of Devotion, Bedevil (in Healing), Targeting, and no Survival or Avoidance whatsoever. Just cutting her some slack, because she's actually pretty damn impressive for what she has available to her. (would submit that someone being 10% of your might does mean several figs)
More interested in comments on what I did than what she did. Curing / prioritisation / etc.
Tharos, the Announcer of Delos shouts, "It's near the end of the egghunt and I still haven't figured out how to pronounce Clean-dat-hoo."
Well the main thing is that you were focusing when the only focusable afflictions you had were disrupts, which included spirit disrupts. This burns a ton of mana and does nothing but build up more disrupts on you. Good on her for capitalizing on this and prioritizing Spirit disrupt heavier when she (presumably) noticed it.
In general, you should be "smart" about focusing vs. priests. You can't just not focus, but you should reserve it for key afflictions or use it to drop disrupts when you can spare the herb balance to eat lobelia. You also have to be mindful of when you have spirit disrupt specifically, as you really just shouldn't focus if you have it, unless you have something seriously worth focusing, and not a lot of mentals stacked to prevent curing it. If you're sitting at like 90% mana and only have an affliction or two, it's generally fine, but you don't wanna stack up disrupts too much by focusing with Spirit in any situation.
Also you focused with all five disrupts, landing you impatience, which she probably could have locked you off of if she had Weaponry (just being theoretical).
[fdsr diz con adsr edsr wdsr sdsr]-
[Curing]: FOCUS
You focus your mind intently on curing your mental maladies.
The confusion lifts from your mind and it is clear once again.
The elemental energy about you fluctuates.
You shuffle your feet noisily, suddenly bored.
[impat sdsr]-[s]E|NE 16:39:40.729(-166m, 3.0%)
Hard to say much past that since she doesn't have Inquisition (and therefore doesn't really have Hellsight) at her disposal, which is generally what kills people who are good at managing mana.
3-9 hour cooldown Greater chance for positive effects than negative effects (I believe 2/3 chance for a positive and 1/3 for negative)
Cage:
7 hour cooldown
Both:
No loss of xp Does NOT count for stat stats for either player Does NOT have a deathsight If they escape with blackwind or astralform after, in most situations it is YOUR fault
Deliver:
A get out of free jail card, which mog and cage are Mild devotion cost versus the huge essence and karma costs for mog and cage NO cooldown Keeps ALL defenses up Stopped only by monolith.
I know what I'd choose (spoiler: deliver).
CBA to add onto the angel sacrifice argument because it is definitely getting nerfed. Just was really surprised by all the misinformation regarding mog and cage.
A get out of free jail card, which mog and cage are Mild devotion cost versus the huge essence and karma costs for mog and cage NO cooldown Keeps ALL defenses up Stopped only by monolith.
I know what I'd choose (spoiler: anything that isn't in Hashan).
Not saying that they're all equal but the fact is, about half the game can instantly GTFO with nothing that can stop it, and the other half has access to Empress.
Personally I'd delete every fast travel ability in the game if it were up to me, because I think it's totally shit for both 1v1 and group combat. But since that's never going to happen, please just accept that pretty much everyone has these options, and that they're all different versions of the same concept, and are available to everyone.
Also worth mentioning that Karma/Essence ~= Devotion, as they are both easy to get more of, whereas with Devotion it's either Absolve people (which generally costs a bunch of Devo), or sit AFK for hours on end waiting for it to regen.
Actually the difference between deliver/empress as a fast travel ability and the others you mentioned is that deliver/empress is used by an ally and so you can escape out prone and other situations where you should die. Empress/deliver/summon are on an entirely different level from the other abilities and shouldn't really be compared even though all these escapes are strong.
And with empress so easily accessed it should mean something that I would trade away cage for something already available to Mhaldorian jesters (who don't really exist).
Adding 7-9 hour cooldown on sacrifice would be ridiculous, its not even an ability that gets much outside of duels. A 1 hour cooldown would be fine. Sorry, now you'll have to lock them again in under one hour, hi have you seen knight limb prep reset?
Would much rather have soulcage/mog, saves so much essence/xp if you fight daily in groups. Don't see how angel sacrifice is a great option in group combat, now I'm handicapped for 5 minutes while I'm charging an angel (if I even lived much longer from damage after sacrificing). Would probably dform to be useful for the rest of the skirmish or should have just died and embraced, would be back in the fight faster.
Deliver/Empress requires another person, don't get the comparison.
Actually the difference between deliver/empress as a fast travel ability and the others you mentioned is that deliver/empress is used by an ally and so you can escape out prone and other situations where you should die. Empress/deliver/summon are on an entirely different level from the other abilities and shouldn't really be compared even though all these escapes are strong.
Many classes cannot maintain prone or paralysis throughout entire kill sequences, and many others don't use/require it at all.
While things like puppet travel/raido might not be a big deal to a serpent who can reafflict and lock paralysis, or a monk who can slow prep and double leg break, or knights who delph break/impale, they might not be a big deal, but they certainly are to classes who don't have such methods (which are many).
Venturing into purely opinion based statements, I think that any form of travel other than walking should take at least a few seconds, should be affected by most if not all forms of hindrance and monolith sigils, and should not complete if afflicted. The existence of fast travel is and always has been a serious downer for anyone who doesn't have the right class or arties to beat this stuff, and in general, these methods detract from one of the most crucial aspects of combat: mobility / movement.
Just to toss out an example from earlier (directly after sticking inquisition/hellsight at 69% mana):
You may channel elemental energy once again. Your attack rebounds off the magical shield of Jhui. (2.087s) 5964h, (77%), 91%w [I|H|M] (00:20:29.196)(-150m, 3.0%)
Jhui takes a group of 120 monolith sigils from a pack woven from the leaves of Yggdrasil. Jhui puts a group of 120 monolith sigils into a pack woven from the leaves of Yggdrasil. Jhui takes a mushroom sigil from a box of stasis. Jhui ceases to wield a tower shield in his left hand. Jhui begins to wield a Logosian battleaxe in his left hand. Jhui ceases to wield an ornate steel rapier marred with char marks in his right hand. Jhui begins to wield a dwarven battleaxe in his right hand. Jhui slashes into you with a Logosian battleaxe! You watch, in horror, as your left arm shrivels up and becomes useless. Jhui swings a dwarven battleaxe at you with all his might. You watch, in horror, as your right arm shrivels up and becomes useless. Warlord Jhui Ta'sa, Lord of the Crossing says something unintelligible. You hear the distant whinny of a wild horse, and Jhui is gone. With a final scream of defiance, a red-crested falcon launches itself away. A giant eagle majestically soars off to the ether.
Why would I ever want to participate in combat with a Runelorist when stuff like this is possible. Note the chained mushroom (which didn't take place because there was no mono).
Not dissing @Jhui because that stuff is "clever" and all, but what the hell. Raido isn't stopped by anything other than a prone lock or venomlock, which my class simply cannot do (realistically) against an opponent who's not being a dipshit.
This kind of things makes me just not want to bother, and it's just one of a dozen examples of such tactics.
Hard to say much past that since she doesn't have Inquisition (and therefore doesn't really have Hellsight) at her disposal, which is generally what kills people who are good at managing mana.
Hellsight is actually an amazing ability, without inquisition, and inquisition isn't really necessary to kill anyone, as far as I've observed.
I'm not saying it isn't helpful, of course. I just take issue with the whole "doesn't really have hellsight" part, since I consider hellsight, on its own, to be probably priest's most OP attack (ask @Cadarus).
@Terra Oh I totally agree, but she doesn't have Targeting or Shatter. Pretty much leaves RNG kelp stack as the only possible method of sticking it for more than 1-2 seconds, which is very unreliable at best, and totally pointless against Fitness.
Devotion is HUGE and runs out a lot slower while essence runs out much more quickly but is more easily regained.
I burn like 50-70% devo on single fights on a regular basis. I burned through over 230% in the last 5 person rampage I was in (thank god for absolve change). Hands, Inspiration, Heresy, Hellsight, Inquisition, dazzle, peace, Deliver, Illuminate all burn a lot of Devotion (most of which use 2-4% each), some of which are bread and butter attacks. Heresy alone burns like 10% in an extended fight, and is in no way optional against most people. Add on rites, particularly against classes/people that refuse to fight on them, for a lot more.
Re escape methods: I'm definitely not talking about 1v1 because getting delivered or empressed out of a 1v1 is basically teaming. I mean in group combat these abilities are a loooooooooooooooot superior to your own escape methods, obviously.. It's a free save from a lot of times you would die if you were a class with soulcage. As well, deliver can be used on people that aren't priest or paladin and that makes your faction a lot stronger as a whole. Deliver is definitely a superior free-save than cage and takes you out of room.
I frequently burn 30% Devo and 20-35% WP on "quick" fights. I think you're underestimating how much Devo non-rite attacks use up.
I will admit judiciously chasing people and dropping piety on them when I catch up, though. That's not really optional though, so I don't see it as an outlier.
Trust me, I don't tree rezz half the people I fight because I'm feeling generous.
Vaehl said: Deliver is definitely a superior free-save than cage and takes you out of room.
Raido, pathfinder, Universe Tarot, and Puppet/Doll travel are self-Delivers, that are not stopped by monolith, and are only stopped by afflictions that most classes cannot maintain (prone, paralysis, roped). Even against classes that can generally maintain them, all it takes is a single milisecond of curing it (or just chaining the cures) to use them.
Sure, you can get delivered while truelocked, but nothing stops people from using literally any of these methods right before you get truelocked, and again, most classes can't truelock.
(also worth mentioning that you can't Sacrifice while truelocked, which is what started this)
Lmao I just realized you guys are talking about 1v1 and I'm talking about free escapes in ganks. Carry on.
Dunno about everyone else, but I am, in reference to the discussion of fast travel over the last page.
Everything I listed (Raido, pathfinder, Universe Tarot, and Puppet/Doll) is frequently used during 1v1, with the slight exception that travel/uni can't be used in arena.
Re escape methods: I'm definitely not talking about 1v1 because getting delivered or empressed out of a 1v1 is basically teaming. I mean in group combat these abilities are a loooooooooooooooot superior to your own escape methods, obviously.. It's a free save from a lot of times you would die if you were a class with soulcage. As well, deliver can be used on people that aren't priest or paladin and that makes your faction a lot stronger as a whole. Deliver is definitely a superior free-save than cage and takes you out of room.
Empress is vastly superior to deliver for escape, much more spammable, you'll burn through all your devotion trying to deliver someone on a monolith. Fund more Mhaldorian jesters then. For example, Devotion has no factional ability to infiltrate into a city and "Good" went without an active serpent for over a year before.
"Comparing" and "equating" are not the same thing.
I was pretty clear about stating that in the post you're referring to, and made it similarly clear that things like Soulcage have both benefits and drawbacks relative to Sacrifice. The main difference is that soulcage/mog are 100% impossible to prevent, work 100% of the time you die with them up, do not limit the use of an entire skillset, and have a longer cooldown.
Sacrifice does have a -lot- of drawbacks, none of which apply to things like Cage/Mog. Not going to re-list them all over again, at risk of angering @Rangor further. I don't think Mhaldor could handle another venting session.
You can sacrifice while truelocked. Truelock does not generally require disruption. No other healing ability in the game is only stopped by disruption.
@Mizik I'm pretty sure he doesn't understand how sacrifice or priest work. If he did, he would literally never die while using sacrifice (in 1v1). Move along.
Comments
Well the main thing is that you were focusing when the only focusable afflictions you had were disrupts, which included spirit disrupts. This burns a ton of mana and does nothing but build up more disrupts on you. Good on her for capitalizing on this and prioritizing Spirit disrupt heavier when she (presumably) noticed it.
In general, you should be "smart" about focusing vs. priests. You can't just not focus, but you should reserve it for key afflictions or use it to drop disrupts when you can spare the herb balance to eat lobelia. You also have to be mindful of when you have spirit disrupt specifically, as you really just shouldn't focus if you have it, unless you have something seriously worth focusing, and not a lot of mentals stacked to prevent curing it. If you're sitting at like 90% mana and only have an affliction or two, it's generally fine, but you don't wanna stack up disrupts too much by focusing with Spirit in any situation.
Also you focused with all five disrupts, landing you impatience, which she probably could have locked you off of if she had Weaponry (just being theoretical).
Hard to say much past that since she doesn't have Inquisition (and therefore doesn't really have Hellsight) at her disposal, which is generally what kills people who are good at managing mana.
Mog:
3-9 hour cooldown
Greater chance for positive effects than negative effects (I believe 2/3 chance for a positive and 1/3 for negative)
Cage:
7 hour cooldown
Both:
No loss of xp
Does NOT count for stat stats for either player
Does NOT have a deathsight
If they escape with blackwind or astralform after, in most situations it is YOUR fault
Deliver:
A get out of free jail card, which mog and cage are
Mild devotion cost versus the huge essence and karma costs for mog and cage
NO cooldown
Keeps ALL defenses up
Stopped only by monolith.
I know what I'd choose (spoiler: deliver).
CBA to add onto the angel sacrifice argument because it is definitely getting nerfed. Just was really surprised by all the misinformation regarding mog and cage.
@Vhael
Deliver, aka Empress, is accessible to everyone in the game.
If it's broken, then it's broken for everyone.
Also see: (fixed)
Not saying that they're all equal but the fact is, about half the game can instantly GTFO with nothing that can stop it, and the other half has access to Empress.
Personally I'd delete every fast travel ability in the game if it were up to me, because I think it's totally shit for both 1v1 and group combat. But since that's never going to happen, please just accept that pretty much everyone has these options, and that they're all different versions of the same concept, and are available to everyone.
Also worth mentioning that Karma/Essence ~= Devotion, as they are both easy to get more of, whereas with Devotion it's either Absolve people (which generally costs a bunch of Devo), or sit AFK for hours on end waiting for it to regen.
Which you can do with Devotion.
And with empress so easily accessed it should mean something that I would trade away cage for something already available to Mhaldorian jesters (who don't really exist).
Actually, you can, for Essence. Comparing Karma to Devo is really just weird, as they almost nothing in common aside from both being numbers.
Would much rather have soulcage/mog, saves so much essence/xp if you fight daily in groups. Don't see how angel sacrifice is a great option in group combat, now I'm handicapped for 5 minutes while I'm charging an angel (if I even lived much longer from damage after sacrificing). Would probably dform to be useful for the rest of the skirmish or should have just died and embraced, would be back in the fight faster.
Deliver/Empress requires another person, don't get the comparison.
tl;dr - Arena Duels to the death you cheap %&$#s
Many classes cannot maintain prone or paralysis throughout entire kill sequences, and many others don't use/require it at all.
While things like puppet travel/raido might not be a big deal to a serpent who can reafflict and lock paralysis, or a monk who can slow prep and double leg break, or knights who delph break/impale, they might not be a big deal, but they certainly are to classes who don't have such methods (which are many).
Venturing into purely opinion based statements, I think that any form of travel other than walking should take at least a few seconds, should be affected by most if not all forms of hindrance and monolith sigils, and should not complete if afflicted. The existence of fast travel is and always has been a serious downer for anyone who doesn't have the right class or arties to beat this stuff, and in general, these methods detract from one of the most crucial aspects of combat: mobility / movement.
Just to toss out an example from earlier (directly after sticking inquisition/hellsight at 69% mana):
Why would I ever want to participate in combat with a Runelorist when stuff like this is possible. Note the chained mushroom (which didn't take place because there was no mono).
Not dissing @Jhui because that stuff is "clever" and all, but what the hell. Raido isn't stopped by anything other than a prone lock or venomlock, which my class simply cannot do (realistically) against an opponent who's not being a dipshit.
This kind of things makes me just not want to bother, and it's just one of a dozen examples of such tactics.
Hellsight is actually an amazing ability, without inquisition, and inquisition isn't really necessary to kill anyone, as far as I've observed.
I'm not saying it isn't helpful, of course. I just take issue with the whole "doesn't really have hellsight" part, since I consider hellsight, on its own, to be probably priest's most OP attack (ask @Cadarus).
Oh I totally agree, but she doesn't have Targeting or Shatter. Pretty much leaves RNG kelp stack as the only possible method of sticking it for more than 1-2 seconds, which is very unreliable at best, and totally pointless against Fitness.
@Achilles
See: Frequency of arena duel usage.
Whatchoo smoking homes?
Re escape methods: I'm definitely not talking about 1v1 because getting delivered or empressed out of a 1v1 is basically teaming. I mean in group combat these abilities are a loooooooooooooooot superior to your own escape methods, obviously.. It's a free save from a lot of times you would die if you were a class with soulcage. As well, deliver can be used on people that aren't priest or paladin and that makes your faction a lot stronger as a whole. Deliver is definitely a superior free-save than cage and takes you out of room.
I frequently burn 30% Devo and 20-35% WP on "quick" fights. I think you're underestimating how much Devo non-rite attacks use up.
I will admit judiciously chasing people and dropping piety on them when I catch up, though. That's not really optional though, so I don't see it as an outlier.
Trust me, I don't tree rezz half the people I fight because I'm feeling generous.
Raido, pathfinder, Universe Tarot, and Puppet/Doll travel are self-Delivers, that are not stopped by monolith, and are only stopped by afflictions that most classes cannot maintain (prone, paralysis, roped). Even against classes that can generally maintain them, all it takes is a single milisecond of curing it (or just chaining the cures) to use them.
Sure, you can get delivered while truelocked, but nothing stops people from using literally any of these methods right before you get truelocked, and again, most classes can't truelock.
(also worth mentioning that you can't Sacrifice while truelocked, which is what started this)
What causes you to die from 0? Does it clear Rites, block Healing, curing, sipping, etc.?
If we're comparing it to Soulcage/Mog, does it remove all defenses? Or do you mean it knocks you off EQ for 10 seconds?
Dunno about everyone else, but I am, in reference to the discussion of fast travel over the last page.
Everything I listed (Raido, pathfinder, Universe Tarot, and Puppet/Doll) is frequently used during 1v1, with the slight exception that travel/uni can't be used in arena.
Empress also still summons enemies, which was removed from its Devotion twin years ago (*squirts weedkiller on a certain shrub*).
Got a lab now. Ttyl bae
-
One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important
"Comparing" and "equating" are not the same thing.
I was pretty clear about stating that in the post you're referring to, and made it similarly clear that things like Soulcage have both benefits and drawbacks relative to Sacrifice. The main difference is that soulcage/mog are 100% impossible to prevent, work 100% of the time you die with them up, do not limit the use of an entire skillset, and have a longer cooldown.
Sacrifice does have a -lot- of drawbacks, none of which apply to things like Cage/Mog. Not going to re-list them all over again, at risk of angering @Rangor further. I don't think Mhaldor could handle another venting session.
AS A PRIEST
Hindrance + no angel.
Next question.
STILL THE MOST DURABLE CLASS IN THE GAME.
Rites are up, Healing Skill, Spirit Shields, etc.
5-10 seconds 50% death is a lie.
You are a liar.
Liar.
Mizik I think we both know there are a long list of classes better at both tanking and curing Priest (with forced bedevil).
Without forced bedevil, it's pretty great but hardly unkillable, particularly without Spirituality.
You can sacrifice while truelocked. Truelock does not generally require disruption. No other healing ability in the game is only stopped by disruption.
@Mizik I'm pretty sure he doesn't understand how sacrifice or priest work. If he did, he would literally never die while using sacrifice (in 1v1). Move along.