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Comments
The only defense to alchemist -is- running.
This is sadly quite true, even as a priest. Thank god for Illuminate... without it I probably wouldn't even try. Homonculus is 100% nuts.
Nothing can really give enough pressure against an alchemist to slow down them eventually killing you.
But yeah. Most classes -have- to run, against both priest and alchemist.
Can't say the same for alc. Takes forever to cure all the afflictions from an alc.
IMO homonculous blocking should just go away, and they should have something more like Pinshot (with a shorter duration) or a room-based hindrance ability. Alchemist affliction pressure is -way- too fast and deadly to have Tentacles on steroids.
I've seen it too many times. You finally get out of the room, and are excited to have a chance to heal the 37 afflictions you acquired during your desperate attempt to flee, when they just walk back in and keep stacking you, instantly (and balancelessly) placing you back in Homonculus.
As it is, it's basically all the good aspects of Piety, Tentacles, and Hamstring, with none of the bad (it has no duration limitation, no essence cost, higher proc rate, stops more movement methods, and travels wherever you go). Can also be stacked with block, requiring Leap/Tumble to escape, which guarantees that the alchemist can just follow before balance is regained, making Leaping/Tumbling pointless.
Not an expert on Alch combat so not going to get deep into it (yet), but that's the impression I got after fighting them for the last few months.
Bit more detail on Homunculus:
- nuclei are made in laboratory
- can carry maximum of 5 at a time
- is a channel, but no afflictions/statii stop it from completing
I looked into this because I hoped that killing them was a valid counter, but I see that this is clearly not the case. In a duel, it would require 4-5 minutes of non-stop bashing to kill 5 Homuncu...lii(?).
Perhaps making them more akin to entities would make them somewhat more reasonable.
2. I agree, knowing when to run against an alchie is crucial.
3. Current incarnation of Torso is fairly balanced against its counterparts. It can only ever affect one person (the person the homunculus is attacking), and it's rate of fire scales with the amount of tempers on a person. If you can't get passed Torso, you're probably fully tempered. That said, I think it could be toned down a tad at the upper, more extreme levels.
4. While alchie aff pressure is strong, the only two affs they can give to help keep someone still are paralysis and stupidity. Unless that's changed, Torso is a 100% necessary mechanic.
EDIT: I tried something like four times(Technically more, but I'm only counting the attempts that actually went through. Not the times I was spamming and couldn't get wings on/speak)
I have to agree (with @Daslin). The proc rate starts high, and just gets ridiculously higher. Also, you'd never need to run unless you have a lot of tempers, making it effectively always super high chance to block, when you actually need to move.
My next beef:
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/f5244958
You drop a monolith sigil. (23:01:54.503) [to prevent portals]
You enact the Rite of Piety, the foundations of your devotion binding all within its grasp.(23:01:55.989)
Omi stares at his doll of Chiam and disappears.
Angel trace: Omi moved to Mhaldor Road in Mhaldor. (11097, 11101, 11095, ...)
(23:01:56.203)
Mind you, this is Ernam chasing me around relentlessly with some artiefriends of his while I try to hunt. I had some empathy for this guy before. Obvious troll is obvious though.
Unless you're referring to my Mace, not sure who you're referring to.
And I have no intention of ranting.
Have every intention of classleading possible fixes to world-wide puppet travel that's stoppable by absolutely nothing.
Not really willing to "debate" or "argue" over this either. The fact that you (and many, many others) use this method to fashion/run pretty much seals the deal. The fact that Earring of Sinope was a direct copy of the mechanic, and was nerfed, will probably also be a factor.
Also, good fight @Eloru. Would post the log but it's like, 8 times the max size of pastebin (I burned 55% WP and roughly 60% Devo on that fight). On an OOC (and IC) level, I really appreciate people who are willing to stick around and fight 1v1.
Here's the tail end of it, which sadly doesn't include the early on part where you got 1 aff from locking me. https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/bb0ba5c9 Interesting to note that you basically died due to passive bedevil, which was forced.
You went from:
: [PRONE] ast-50% clu-50% [nau] [just] [>EARTH<] [inquisition]
to
: [PRONE] [conf] [clu] [dar] [diz] [just] [>EARTH<] [>WTR<] [inquisition]
in a single attack, from hypnosis proc'ing Bedevil. Not boasting, it was pure RNG magic.
I've never fashioned you. And earrings are an artefact, doll's are a class ability. Artefacts = anyone can have them, class abilities = that class can have them. Basically you think that fashioners having an ability that prevents you from ganking them 2v1, 3v1, nonstop because you like to grief, means that the ability needs to be nerfed... this is especially sad considering you have a plethora of ways around it in actual combat.
Already said: not going to argue with you.
IMO defending what you're doing is just silly. If you were on my end, you would certainly agree.
Way to respond to yet another class balance comment with personal insults and (misguided) accusations, though.
Eventually you'll realize that people are attacking you because you place runes all over sapience that constantly hit them. Constantly attacking people might also be part of it.
#grief
(Not going to get into a forum battle with you. Your argument (and accusations) simply don't deserve one)
I agree with 1, 2, and 4. Regarding 3, though, is it actually confirmed that homunculus torso increases with tempers? I've heard that before, but it's never really seemed to be the case to me. I'm completely ignorant on that point of whether it acts that way, but if it does, it really should work just like regular tentacles/piety/etc imo.
Homunculus block is definitely necessary for a class like alchemist. The only problem with it, compared to other forms of hinder, is that it is both mobile and not stopped by fly. You can tumble out of gravehands/piety, and a priest or apostate has to follow and re-piety/gravehands to keep the hinder in the next room. You can fly out of wildgrowth/tentacles and the occultist/sylvan/druid has to take the time to tentacle you. Neither of these methods work against homunculus block, and that is unique.
That being said, you also have to consider that Occultist has access to vertigo and Sylvan/Druid are prep classes. And that homunculus block only hinders one person (which, while irrelevant in 1v1, is a major disadvantage relative to the other hinder abilities in teams).
The best way to address it would probably be to either make homunculus block not affect fly, but give alchemist vertigo, OR make homunculus block require and use balance to initiate, rather than having it automatically happen if your homunculus is attacking, and make it drop when you leave the room. Basically, homunculus is blocking X, X escapes, I chase. I order homunculus to block -again- in new room for a balance cost, and it continues to block. This makes it more akin to piety/gravehands. The balance should be shorter than piety/gravehands, since piety/gravehands users have the option of setting up the adjacent rooms beforehand.
I think dramatically lowering it's HP would be a fair change too, so killing it is a viable counter. Even if it was just like 10-ish seconds to kill, that's still a TON of time for an alchemist to build stacks without being attacked themselves, and is really easy and relatively costless to resummon.
It does, or at least did when initial testing was done. I believe @Sena posted some math on it.
Taken from here:
The beef with it is that you don't need to run from it until your fluids are super high. So, by the time you actually need to gtfo, it's pretty much always 75%. Waiting for inundate to run can work, assuming you don't... die from it, and assuming you don't also have a ton of other fluids still stacked.
I don't really like encouraging those kinds of battles. Target kills homunculus. Alchemist runs away to resummon (has to run, since has to pause to resummon). Alchemist returns. Target kills homunculus. Alchemist runs away to resummon. Repeat until no more nuclei. Alchemist runs back to city to get more nuclei.
Homunculus is like baalzadeen. It's not meant to be slain. It's an important part of the class, and people fighting the alchemist -should- be basically forced to just accept that it's there and fight with it there.
Edit: Yeah, running on inundate isn't viable at all, given that against a good alchemist, you should always either 1) die to the inundate, 2) be full truelocked by the inundate, or 3) die within about 2 seconds of the inundate while having another humour tempered and about to be inundated.
You have to pause for 4 seconds, but you can't really stop it. It completes regardless of all afflictions. Certainly comes with risks trying it mid-combat, but could probably be pulled off safely if your target is messed up enough from your [however] many seconds of totally free alchemist offense while they bashed homunculus. It's significantly harder to stop than Gare, and Gare's pretty easy to pull off.
In general though, I agree that it'd be better to just fix it than make it easily killed. Just one option.
Increasing homunblock proc rate does suck tho.
Needs momentum curing (consecutive ginger eats curing 1 extra humor each time) and passive/actives being able to heal humor levels.
Things like being able to design a more unique homunculus for variable effects, with three different options for their torso, or scream. Or more usage of the primary skill. There's also a tremendous amount of really obvious utility, both in and out of combat, that the class seems to be missing in favor of sheer affliction spam. Things like Survival - Physiology in... Physiology.
Results of disembowel testing | Knight limb counter | GMCP AB files
Comparing Piety to Homunc isn't really accurate, for reasons both myself and @Terra explained.
The primary reason being that 1) Piety is easily bypassed (homunc isn't), and 2) Piety requires balance to put up after chasing (homunc does not).
Few good suggestions were put forth, hope to see some classleads submitted on it.
I remember when @Jovolo went alchemist for like 10 minutes on an alt then did things to me I'd never wish another Alchemist to learn.
I really want to back up my argument that achemist is amazing with strategies and examples, but I can't have all the current alchemists going into extra broken mode.