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Comments
Like soulcage, but cooler and with side effects.
Album of Bluef during her time in Achaea
Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."
Artemis says, "You are so high maintenance, Tharvis, gosh."
Tecton says, "It's still your fault, Tharvis."
I thought it was once per month (like soulcage) but who knows. Occie has changed a lot lately, if that's even how it used to be.
In general though, cage/mog (and phoenix) are all way better than Sacrifice, which is why I find the whole rage thing about it borderline hysterical. The whole soulcage/BW, mog/AF, Phoenix/Evade thing has been around forever, and all of a sudden it's a huge shitstorm because priests have an active heal that does the equivalent, while rendering their offense useless for 5 minutes at the same time.
You answered your own question. It's cage/mog that can be used every 5 (or less) minutes. Team Good would rage hard about that if we had it. Cage/mog can only be used what? Every 8 hours?
I suggested a long time ago (pre-duel with Tesha) that sacrifice have at least an hour cooldown, perhaps more (since mog/cage is like 8 hours or something?). But that dramatically changes the ability, so saying "it's not OP. It just needs a 1 hour cool-down" is fairly contradictory. Because without any sort of cooldown, it is ridiculously OP!
There should not be a free save that can be used like 12 times in an hour.
Edit: Lol, Ernam, it's also nothing like phoenix/evade, which are both stopped by prone. Give that a rest.
Cage/mog are also different in some other ways, such as you actually get a kill in stat stats when they happen, and necromancers generally recognize cage as a loss, while you do not get a kill when a priest angel sacrifices, and priests apparently deny that using the ability is a loss.
Soulcage doesn't devoid the user of Necromancy.
Mog similarly doesn't impact occultist combat (and in fact can augment it).
Meanwhile, angel sacrifice pretty much knocks a priest out of meaningful combat (totally nullifies 1v1 potential) for 5 minutes. (more if you count the fact that you need to sit there powering up your angel 20 times and re-deffing spirituality stuff)
While I think giving it a cooldown of an hour would be totally fair, I think eliminating the 800 angel power requirement to resummon/charge your angel should go away. If you're going to base your entire argument of nerfing Sacrifice on the assumption that it should work like Soulcage/Mog and have massive cooldown, then it (like soulcage/mog) shouldn't come with the already existing penalty on top of it (not having an angel anymore).
An ability does not have to be overpowered to be stupid, though Sacrifice offers the convenience of being both.
If anything it makes it extremely easy to kill a priest.
And I still fail to see how an active ability that cures afflictions is somehow more OP than soulcage/mog which is passive and has a 100% chance to work, and has no way to be bypassed, whatsoever.
I still agree it needs attention, just saying. All of the logic you're throwing at Sacrifice could also be applied to:
phoenix
puppet travel
raido
earrings
Deliver
Empress
pathfinder
uni
astralform
blackwind
kaido deliverance (instantly ends fights, if successful)
Every single thing here can be instantly used to end a fight and is (effectively or completely) unstoppable.
Anyone moronic enough to say: "Puppet travel is easy to stop, but Angel Sacrifice isn't" is automatically both ignorant of how the abilities work and an obvious troll. Same goes for monoliths vs Raido etc.
Would like to see how:
or soulcage/BW, mog/AF, and so on, are any different, aside from the fact that nothing I listed has any significant drawback, as Sacrifice does. Most of them completely remove you from the area, as well, unlike Sacrifice, which leaves you there, generally screwed.
Sure, a priest has absolutely no obligation to stick around and fight, just as someone who just soulcaged has just as little probability of just standing there and dying. Same goes for the other things I listed. In fact, some of them can be, and are used to slow prep.
Remove sacrifice, give us a free worldwide instant travel ability that isn't stopped by any form of hindrance or monoliths. Or delete Sacrifice and give us Devo soulcage? How would this be better? The reason that this is a laughable suggestion is that all of these things are significantly better than Sacrifice, but that fact is not going to stop people from whining about it and demanding a nerf, without looking at this objectively.
https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/ccb84488
You know what's OP about that angel sacrifice? Absolutely nothing. I was locked 7 seconds after I Sacrified, and has absolutely no way of getting away (gravehands), healing, using angel refuge, or obviously sacrifice again. We'll set aside the fact that EITHER of the two people in that log could have prevented Sacrifice entirely, with a single attack (see: sleep or disrupt).
You know what would have worked? Literally everything I mentioned above. (or Evade)
Willing to respond to questions that have anything to do with what we're discussing.
[ RNG could have gotten me out of gravehands, but didn't, and Illuminate could have as well, but I didn't anticipate being locked so quickly and thus didn't use it (small play error on my part). ]
Please respond to my valid points, instead of changing the subject with misdirection and "lols".
Remove timer required to resummon angel or just take its health down to 1.
The only reason I'd even consider wanting angel sacrifice to stay is because it's cool and similar to other abilities.
The downside of keeping it is this: People already have to take into account about 90 different abilities a priest can use to instantly go from fucked to not in danger.
For locks you have to find a way to break an arm to stop healing (not incorporate in most lock scenarios), voyria to stop passive healing (on top of arms break), force passive bedevil (fuck yourself with reflected affs), or risk them curing paralysis/active bedevil'ing all of their afflictions away at one time with a decent cooldown (but who doesn't play defensive in between cooldowns).
For damage classes, priests have splintmail, soa, spiritshields, toughness, empathy, revite that all work while prone (hands while not prone), and tumble out of piety. Oh but just for a 'fuck you' let's keep angel drain as it and give them the best health healing in the game alongside the most requirements to pressure a lock.
This of course is all alongside a now very potent offense that can control the fight against most classes outside of evade.
Now let's say you've miraculously taken all of these factors into account as you're moving in for you finisher. We're assuming the priest you're fighting is the epitome of priest (aka great curer without class skills, knows when to go defensive, knows how to pressure with offense, has scripted 'heal me out of dangerous situations', etc). You've done everything to deserve the kill on the priest, but now they angel sacrifice and you have to start over.
At least with soulcage/mog there is the semblance of a win, with sacrifice there isn't. It's just another get out of jail free card for a class that doesn't need one. Another ability you have to take into account against priest, but that you can't really take into account.
That being said, it's a cool skill, just tone down another one, give sacrifice a cooldown, and everything will be okay.
Am totally fine with changing it in ways like you mentioned or similar. I just find it silly that people are calling it insanely OP while the comparison to a dozen other abilities is palpable.
BMs are already nearly unkillable/unlockable and have Evade and Phoenix and Health/Mana Trans on top of triple active curing and incredible offensive hindrance.
Monks are already virtually unkillable, and have Numb/Immunity/Deliverance, on top of Fitness, Kaido deaf (anti-sensi), Transmute, and dozens of Kaido/Telepathy tricks.
Necromancers have more damage mitigation than Priest, and have Soulcage and Blackwind, and also have gravehands/tumble AND have Numb (apostate only).
If you just look at angel Sacrifice as a "win without a kill" like everyone seems to look at blackwind/soulcage, I think you'd find your well-balanced solution there, just fine. It's just a perception problem due to the culture of accepting things like cage/mog/phoenix but not Sacrifice, purely because people just aren't used to seeing it.
Ernam, pretty much everyone has said they'd be fine with it if it had a cooldown. It's not mog/cage unless it has a substantial cooldown. It currently has no cooldown, however, and is thus ridiculously OP.
You posted a log of dying 1v2 despite using sacrifice. No one claimed sacrifice was a 1v2 escape ability. That doesn't change the fact that it's ridiculously OP in 1v1. Puppet travel isn't comparable. You're comparing apples to oranges. Yes, it's better for escaping a gank attempt. But it's not a 1v1 ability (e.g., you cannot use it in the arena, in a duel to the death), and it cannot get you out of an already executed kill setup. If you choose to fight, get prepped, get truelocked/proned/etc., you will die.
I've never had difficulty locking BMs (bard isn't impacted by evade), but there's also near universal agreement that BM evade is not ok in its current form. That not being ok doesn't make another dumb ability ok.
Monk and apostate damage mitigation has also been criticized as OP. Angel sacrifice is -more- problematic since it negates all damage -and- affliction kills, though.
Edit: Evade and sacrifice counter different things. Sacrifice is the anti-prep/anti-burst truelock and thus the bane of my existence. Evade is anti-momentum. If you are a momentum class that relies solely on a person being held in room by, say, piety, then evading or traveling out of piety with ease will keep that person from dying. If you are a class that preps, and then executes a kill with limb breaks (and has -no- room hinder like piety), angel sacrificing will keep a person from dying, because the priest can easily walk out after using it, all prep is gone, the priest is fully healed, etc. This also applies to serpent, since pinshot will wear off and hypnosis will be wasted, allowing the priest to easily walk out after negating a truelock.
@Terra You can't Angel Sacrifice if you're truelocked. Or Asleep.
Bard vs Priest. Yeah, I'm a lot higher might than her, but that doesn't mean a fig, I'm still learning
To be fair, she doesn't have half of Devotion, Bedevil (in Healing), Targeting, and no Survival or Avoidance whatsoever. Just cutting her some slack, because she's actually pretty damn impressive for what she has available to her. (would submit that someone being 10% of your might does mean several figs)