Combat Logs

Mizik

No class is better than Priest at both tanking and curing. 

No class is even comparable to Priest in curing.

Terra

Mizik said:

No class is better than Priest at both tanking and curing. 

No class is even comparable to Priest in curing.

But all they have (without angel) is a full heal ability, a balanceless targeted heal ability, two forms of passive curing (rite + bliss) that can be used simultaneously, 2.1 enemy herb balance + peace, can balancelessly reflect paralysis/peace/clumsiness if passive bedevil is up, two forms of health regen, one form of active health regen, piety that they can tumble or walk out of, and illuminate (free escape that ignores hinder).

Ernam

Why do you guys act like this?

Almost every class in the game is better at curing than Priest with forced bedevil up.  I know you know this.  You know that I know you know this.  Why play games?

I pretty clearly agreed with you that without Force it's amazing.

References:

Every other passive healing in the game, all of which are better than Angel Care, and most of which are better than RoH.

Every active cure in the game.  (zero of which can be performed with (forced) passive bedevil up.

@Terra Illuminate is stoppable 100% of the time, by every class in the game.  Not that I understand why you'd complain even if this wasn't true, because you seem perfectly comfortable with the half-dozen other abilities that actually can't be stopped.

Terra

What are you on? The only active cure that can't be used with forced bedevil up is heal. Wow. Who cares? Bedevil is a full heal. It's better than almost every other active cure in the game, and better than the others in at least some situations (it cures -all- afflictions, come on...).

I really think you need to just look at your abilities and learn your class more. I'm genuinely convinced that you do not know how they work.

Edit: What. When did I complain about illuminate? Lol. We're just talking about priest's defense, since you seem to believe it has nothing. I do not think illuminate is OP. But it's a part of priest's incredible range of defensive abilities.

Jovolo

Why isn't active bedevil one of the best active cures in the game? Does it not cure every affliction from diagnose and transfer some of those to your target as well? Can you not use active Bedevil independent of whether you have passive Bedevil up? 

Angel care is a passive cure that works every 10 seconds? It follows through tumble and is mobile. That makes it one of the best in the game, after Necklace of Purity, and it's much better than no passive healing at all.

Priest's are still pretty stacked defens

Santar

You guys need to stop responding to anything Ernam says. 

Amarillys

Can you all just go make a 'arguing about sacrifice' thread and let this get back to combat logs? I am trying to learn here >_<

Kross

Ernam said:

Many classes cannot maintain prone or paralysis throughout entire kill sequences, and many others don't use/require it at all.

[Jhui fight stuff with Raido]

Why would I ever want to participate in combat with a Runelorist when stuff like this is possible.  Note the chained mushroom (which didn't take place because there was no mono).

Not dissing @Jhui because that stuff is "clever" and all, but what the hell.  Raido isn't stopped by anything other than a prone lock or venomlock, which my class simply cannot do (realistically) against an opponent who's not being a dipshit.

This kind of things makes me just not want to bother, and it's just one of a dozen examples of such tactics.

Isn't this exactly what you were saying for people to do against Priest sac? "Just prone them or true lock them, bruh, then they can't Angel Sacrifice." Well...just prone him, and then he can't raido, bruh.

#angelpush

Jovolo

The thread would just be dead if these occasional derails didn't happen. Often you don't get a log posted for days at a time and then suddenly there are three to four pages of combat discussion. Sometimes it goes too far, but that's how combat logs has always been.

If you want a dedicated thread for sparring/duel logs, you should make one or ask someone else to. We used to have a packed one on the old forums, but it doesn't seem to have taken off here.

It's not like if these discussions stopped we'd 'go back to combat logs', tbh. It just makes their absence more profound.

Ernam

Priest can stop Angel Sacrifice, although it's arguably somewhat difficult.  However against another priest, you're pretty much dead if you angel sacrifice, and have no chance of killing them, and also completely remove the other priests' limitations based on mana usage, making things much, much worse.

I killed two people with sleep locks today using Heal Insomnia/delphinium.

There's absolutely no reason that wouldn't work against a priest.  Also note that angel sacrifice Priest vs. Priest is pretty much a total forfeit, particularly since this would only happen in an arena where running back to a guard stack isn't an option.


I've already gone through how and why Priest can't stick prone for more than about 2 seconds, not counting the balance of the two smites itself, and assuming you are willing to spend an ungodly amount of time bypassing parry one Smite at a time.  Also explained in great detail how this is 100% unusable in any priest strategy other than "smite a bunch, smite some more, break legs, and hope that a few more smites kills them with damage before they stand".

Santar

Discussions are fine. Tediously arguing with Ernam's either trolling or stupidity isn't fun to read, though. 

Kenway

The only thing making it so noticeable is Ernam hijacking every damn thread with anything to do with combat to argue with everyone that one of the strongest classes if not THE strongest, isn't strong enough. Usually when you believe one thing and every other person seems to think the opposite , y might be wrong. But evidently that is impossible so I guess were all just morons.

Kross

Kenway said:

The only thing making it so noticeable is Ernam hijacking every damn thread with anything to do with combat to argue with everyone that one of the strongest classes if not THE strongest, isn't strong enough. Usually when you believe one thing and every other person seems to think the opposite , y might be wrong. But evidently that is impossible so I guess were all just morons.

Possibly the most concise way I've heard it put yet. Ultimately, if I find myself agreeing with Santar in a forums post, I know the content has pretty much gone to shit.

Ernam

Exactly how many votes does it take to declare someone "stupid" regardless of how correct they are?

Kenway

Oh, and before it even goes there, this is not everyone just hating on you Ernam. I literally have no problem with you and have never had a negative interaction with you. This is purely from watching you derail every thread I've been interested in for the past week and turning it into the "Xinna and Ernam argue thread section X of 9000" until everyone who wanted to contribute to the ACTUAL topic gives up because even after polite requests to stop, you continue. THEN everyone else turns into a dick and THEN you have a reason to feel attacked. This is not an attack. This is a fucking PLEA to cease an desist.

Ernam

Oops not a combat log.  See: Your post.

Kenway

Wrong does not = stupid.

Aegoth

<Blah.>

Ernam

Whatever, I'll just stop.

I make a simple claim, it is refuted as unbased and stupid.

If I make a simple claim and back it up by not only explaining how it's true in great detail, but responding to questions and feedback, then I'm "derailing", "trolling", or somehow "whining".

It's obvious that the general forums are not the best place for mature discussion, and frankly I'm simply going to make an effort to stop trying.

Big thank you to the minority who have repeatedly remained level-headed, mature, unoffensive, unbiased, and rational.

Strata

The "Recent Discussions" page on my browser shows 30 of the most recent discussions. I have been counting how many of them are saturated with Ernam flaunting his superior intellect. On average, 8-12 of those threads are saturated. That's over 1/3rd.

Kenway

Never asked you to stop making good points and bringing things to the table. Just asked you to listen to feedback so that people don't end up resorting to more toxic ways of getting your attention. In just another thread I very politely asked you if we could move on and you responded with lol I hate phone posts too and hen continued your rant. And you ask for logic and rational behavior and kindness I haven't been anything but.

Santar

It doesn't matter if you say technically true things in your post. A lot of things you say are -technically- true. However, going around to every topic on the forum to ceaselessly argue like you do is annoying. You use the most ridiculous arguments that while -technically- true, have no relevancy to the spirit of most 'debates' you go into.

It's almost like you're in a heated divorce battle with every person you interact with on the forums.

Amarillys

All I asked was the sacrifice thing stop because everyone was arguing the same points for... a week now? Feels like it. And it was on multiple threads! This was just the latest. I like combat discussion. I learn a lot from it. Probably. I at least think between these talks and Kandra I have a pretty good grasp on how my class fights if I ever want to learn physiology. I learn nothing from people saying the same points for a week. And I know this isn't all about me, but it's not all about you (ephemeral you, not anyone in particular) either, so maybe we can all play nice human and move on when you reach old hat status, please?

Valaria

Kross said:

Ernam said:

Many classes cannot maintain prone or paralysis throughout entire kill sequences, and many others don't use/require it at all.

[Jhui fight stuff with Raido]

Why would I ever want to participate in combat with a Runelorist when stuff like this is possible.  Note the chained mushroom (which didn't take place because there was no mono).

Not dissing @Jhui because that stuff is "clever" and all, but what the hell.  Raido isn't stopped by anything other than a prone lock or venomlock, which my class simply cannot do (realistically) against an opponent who's not being a dipshit.

This kind of things makes me just not want to bother, and it's just one of a dozen examples of such tactics.

Isn't this exactly what you were saying for people to do against Priest sac? "Just prone them or true lock them, bruh, then they can't Angel Sacrifice." Well...just prone him, and then he can't raido, bruh.

#angelpush

maybe some class/general abilities should give  affliction that stop them from saying anything... e.g: serpent's noose, kai choke, breathing hold, etc. Other than that, it's just venomlock/prone lock. Better to kick up a notch with teamwork to pin Jhui down.

Ernam

I agree that listing half a dozen ways to counter sacrifice went against the "spirit" of the topic of conversation, which was currently "Angel Sacrifice can't be countered".

Being incredibly detailed is just because I've been playing this game way too long to expect anything other than "you don't know what you're talking about", or "lol quit whining, learn your class" if you don't.

I'm truly sorry that it's necessary to do so, because if it's harder on anything than your eyes, it's my imminent carpal tunnel.

Exelethril

Every time I see a new post in this thread, I hope to see someone posting their or someone else's misfortune but all I see is "angel sacrifice", hrrngh.

Strata

Way to turn things back around, as expected. Everyone should stop playing now. Pretty sure there's laws in some countries we can be held against for forcing someone to give themselves carpal tunnel.

Santar

Strata said:

Pretty sure there's laws in some countries we can be held against for forcing someone to give themselves carpal tunnel.

Sounds like Kate Upton is going to jail.

Jarrod

Tonight our study takes us inside the mind of two people whose opinions on Priest's offensive and defensive capability -

Not dissing @Jhui because that stuff is "clever" and all, but what the hell.  Raido isn't stopped by anything other than a prone lock or venomlock, which my class simply cannot do (realistically) against an opponent who's not being a dipshit.

Could not be more different from one another -

Priest can stop Angel Sacrifice, although it's arguably somewhat difficult.  However against another priest, you're pretty much dead if you angel sacrifice, and have no chance of killing them, and also completely remove the other priests' limitations based on mana usage, making things much, much worse.

I killed two people with sleep locks today using Heal Insomnia/delphinium.

Tonight, we see if these two clearly polar opposite opinions can be reconciled in the battle dome. Results may surprise you!

Ernam

One of these abilities is a worldwide fast travel that has exactly zero repurcussions which can be used off balance through monoliths.  correction: uses a greenink

The other has a significant cooldown, major drawbacks, sacrifices a class skill, and leaves you vulnerable in the room it is used.

With enough context (and content) removed just about anything can be artificially turned into a silly sounding argument.