Combat Logs

Jarrod

In one post you elaborate how impossible it is to pronelock someone.

In the other you elaborate how easily you sleeplocked two people. (Sleep makes them prone)


It has nothing to do with the abilities countered, it has everything to do with your stance that the same thing is both impossible and very easy.

Bluef

Ernam said:

One of these abilities is a worldwide fast travel that has exactly zero repurcussions which can be used off balance through monoliths.  correction: uses a greenink

The other has a significant cooldown, major drawbacks, sacrifices a class skill, and leaves you vulnerable in the room it is used.

With enough context (and content) removed just about anything can be artificially turned into a silly sounding argument.

Raido? If so, monoliths prevent it. 

Ernam

Bluef said:

Raido? If so, monoliths prevent it. 

Oh?

You take a monolith sigil from a bag of stasis.
5635h, (99%), 100%w [I|H|M]  (14:15:26.190)
You drop a monolith sigil.
5635h, (99%), 100%w [I|H|M]  (14:15:26.348)
Aelios gently affixes a mushroom sigil to a monolith sigil, and upon contact, both are destroyed in a magical explosion that leaves Aelios bleeding and hurt.
Aelios says in a gruff voice, "Ride home."
5635h, (99%), 100%w [I|H|M]  (14:15:37.070)

Jarrod

I actually got a handful of Targossian Runies killed one day because I got bored and snuck around the city dropping monos on all their return spots. Was a long time ago at this point, but it was a good time.

Ernam

Goes to Ashtan ramparts.
Drop monoli...
Prays for salvation.

Bluef

Ernam said:

Bluef said:

Raido? If so, monoliths prevent it. 

Oh?

You take a monolith sigil from a bag of stasis.
5635h, (99%), 100%w [I|H|M]  (14:15:26.190)
You drop a monolith sigil.
5635h, (99%), 100%w [I|H|M]  (14:15:26.348)
Aelios gently affixes a mushroom sigil to a monolith sigil, and upon contact, both are destroyed in a magical explosion that leaves Aelios bleeding and hurt.
Aelios says in a gruff voice, "Ride home."
5635h, (99%), 100%w [I|H|M]  (14:15:37.070)

Seriously? You will argue about anything. You didn't write, "Stopped if someone mushrooms a monolith and then fires raido." You wrote, "can be used off balance through monoliths." Which is wrong. It can be used off balance but not through monoliths. 

Jarrod

I got them in the tank room Was easier with earrings but would still be pretty simple now to get them in any guard rooms. Only one person can get it in the 'everyone afks here' room.

Ernam

Bluef said:

Ernam said:
[log of raido through monolith]

Seriously? You will argue about anything. You didn't write, "Stopped if someone mushrooms a monolith and then fires raido." You wrote, "can be used off balance through monoliths." Which is wrong. It can be used off balance but not through monoliths. 

This forum has a serious lack of emotes.

The point is that it doesn't stop it.  It's instant and it's impossible to drop another monolith.

Rangor

Still going at it........................

Daslin

@Rangor I feel like you should raid Targ to get him on another subject, one that might provide logs.

Payne

hahahaha!

Chiam

Didn't really want to join into endless arguments, but @Bluef‌ practically raido cannot be stopped the way Ashtan runies uses it with mass mushrooms, off balance or not. Put a balance nerf on attaching mushrooms, and the whole main group of Ashtan will go Shaman/Jester for instant travel raids (like what happened to earrings).

Not complaining though - if they are willing to make the sacrifice and classchange en masse to "abuse" the strategy, the other cities' main combat groups could pay the price and do it as well. But most other groups won't, thus complaints ensue.

ps: That being said, I hate the fact that the A-team guys are hard to kill as hell with it, even with a number advantage

Elphaba

Does Mhaldor isle not have guards?

Mishgul

It has more guards than Targossas does on the average day.

Kadin

Mishgul said:

It has more guards than Targossas does on the average day.

Hard to get a good average when they get rid of every constable after we slay 50 of them. 

Bluef

Chiam said:

Didn't really want to join into endless arguments, but @Bluef‌ practically raido cannot be stopped the way Ashtan runies uses it with mass mushrooms, off balance or not. Put a balance nerf on attaching mushrooms, and the whole main group of Ashtan will go Shaman/Jester for instant travel raids (like what happened to earrings).

Not complaining though - if they are willing to make the sacrifice and classchange en masse to "abuse" the strategy, the other cities' main combat groups could pay the price and do it as well. But most other groups won't, thus complaints ensue.

ps: That being said, I hate the fact that the A-team guys are hard to kill as hell with it, even with a number advantage

I understand that. But again, that's not what was written, and not what I was responding to. Precision in written language counts. Raido does not go through monolith. No one reading this or any other forum thread should be given the notion it does. 

Can you clarify "mass mushrooms"? I was always taught that if you're not carrying sigils of every sort, especially mushrooms, you're lacking in gear. 

Also what kind of balance nerf - doesn't mushrooming something already take nearly 2s That seems kind of, Idk, reasonable given that you're momentarily engulfed in a magical explosion.

Jhui

Chiam said:

Didn't really want to join into endless arguments, but @Bluef‌ practically raido cannot be stopped the way Ashtan runies uses it with mass mushrooms, off balance or not. Put a balance nerf on attaching mushrooms, and the whole main group of Ashtan will go Shaman/Jester for instant travel raids (like what happened to earrings).

Not complaining though - if they are willing to make the sacrifice and classchange en masse to "abuse" the strategy, the other cities' main combat groups could pay the price and do it as well. But most other groups won't, thus complaints ensue.

ps: That being said, I hate the fact that the A-team guys are hard to kill as hell with it, even with a number advantage

We get bored and go classes on a whim all the time.  Group viability plays a huge role in that choice, but there's quite a few other classes that'd fit (serp, occie, jester, bm) for escape.  I know you're not complaining, but we could all be different classes in a week no matter what changes happen just because we all have this crazy class change STD we can't get rid of

Jonathin

Oh, my picture was warranted.


Seriously. I enjoy looking at combat logs, not a bunch of shit that sounds like 12 year olds on xbox live. Go start a new thread to argue skill mechanics and their uses by the playerbase.

Rangor

Mushroom damage pretty decent. I flame and drop shrooms on every choke against ashtan.

Addama

Rangor said:

I drop shrooms against ashtan.

Taking your tree-hugging hippie RP a bit literally there eh

Ernam

Chiam said:

Didn't really want to join into endless arguments, but @Bluef‌ practically raido cannot be stopped the way Ashtan runies uses it with mass mushrooms, off balance or not. Put a balance nerf on attaching mushrooms, and the whole main group of Ashtan will go Shaman/Jester for instant travel raids (like what happened to earrings).

Not complaining though - if they are willing to make the sacrifice and classchange en masse to "abuse" the strategy, the other cities' main combat groups could pay the price and do it as well. But most other groups won't, thus complaints ensue.

ps: That being said, I hate the fact that the A-team guys are hard to kill as hell with it, even with a number advantage

It's interesting to note that Ashtan is the only city to historically mass class change based on combat (im)balance.  See: Poergh/Jaizsur's army of chaosrays/pit/warp occies, the massive shift to runewarden/shaman when earrings nerfed, and the enormous proportion of monks prior to diminishing returns, and even afterwards, for 40%+ chokes, triggered-axks, and so on. The shift away from monk when prone/transfixed Kaido went away, along with several other famously abusable mechanics (mind throw off impale, backstab/earring/choke on guard stacks, etc) in the last classleads.

Not really a bad thing to drift towards what works better, but it is probably one of the game's most accurate "barometers" of which classes should probably be looked at.

Historically, every class Ashtan has drifted to has received massive nerfs to combat.  I have to assume that this will be applied to Raido classes (albeit probably with the standard 1 year delay).  The only way to ensure this is to bring up such problems on forums to attract community/admin attention to them, and to gain support for classleads yet to be submitted.

Nobody wants to admit they're class changing just because they know something is broken.  But seriously guys, we see a massive shift to puppet travel / Raido exactly after earrings get nerfed.  Let's be realistic, they're exactly the same as earrings, and allow the exact same strategy you were using earrings for.  The only thing that has changed is that you take an ignorable spat of damage when you use it (that doesn't even count as a pvp death, let alone a kill, and avoids essence loss, contract cancellation, bounties, etc)

Make Puppet travel area-only.

Make Raido not work off balance (Attach already has a short balance cost).

Make Universe Tarot affected by Hindrance.

Make city upgrade Orb of Confinement stop fast-travel abilities.  Stopping nothing but duanathar (and technically 'fly') is 100% useless, particularly for the extravagant price tag.

Tharvis

How about pathfinder? That's one of the travel things that seems to work on mono/off balance aswell

Ernam

Pathfinder is pretty broken IMO as well, considering that it it ignores most hindrance, and isn't stopped by monoliths at all.

I believe it is stopped by piety/gravehands, but virtually nothing else, making occultist able to ignore 95% of the hindrance in the game (and also have AF and Uni that do the same), and feeding it various forms of slow prep/invulnerability (same for Uni with Jester).

Only counter is to kill the pathfinder, but that frequently results in your immediate enlightenment.

Terra

Eh. There are a number of classes that have the same kind of mobility as raido.

Personally, I just consider the classes that don't have such abilities especially -bad- at mobility, rather than the other way around. That's why I was opposed to the particular earring nerf that happened (would have -rathered- it be made stopped by mono, so people who pay 800 cr get something at least comparable to raido/hermit). But there's no question that not auto-dying when a large enemy group looks at you funny makes the game more fun, so I hardly blame people for choosing classes that do that. I definitely would if I weren't so in love with bard dueling.

Raido harm plz. Songwind? Songtravel!

Ernam

The massive shift towards using things like earring and raido in raids didn't start until about a year ago.  I would venture to guess that the people who originally created Earrings/Raido had absolutely no idea that they'd ultimately end up being used by the dozen to create vast earring networks that almost entirely eliminate the need for actual movement in group combat entirely.

Would also like to reiterate that Orb of Confinement should stop instant travel.  I can see Raido being used as an escape mechanism (as intended), but usuing it to insta-travel in and out of cities, particularly through monoliths and all hindrance, is just absurd.  Same with earrings, Uni, etc.

Orb of confinement should confine people, basically.  Leave portals, because they are balanced (due to delay) and preventable by monoliths (before being cast).

Kross

I'm still monk. Inb4 Ernam trolling. Oh wait...

Bluef

Ernam said:

The massive shift towards using things like earring and raido in raids didn't start until about a year ago.  I would venture to guess that the people who originally created Earrings/Raido had absolutely no idea that they'd ultimately end up being used by the dozen to create vast earring networks that almost entirely eliminate the need for actual movement in group combat entirely.

Would also like to reiterate that Orb of Confinement should stop instant travel.  I can see Raido being used as an escape mechanism (as intended), but usuing it to insta-travel in and out of cities, particularly through monoliths and all hindrance, is just absurd.  Same with earrings, Uni, etc.

Orb of confinement should confine people, basically.  Leave portals, because they are balanced (due to delay) and preventable by monoliths (before being cast).

I thought you moved this discussion to your own personal thread? If so, can't we move on to actual combat logs here again?

Daslin

In the interest of moving back to logs.

https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/fda9e009

have a log of me failing hardcore and picking venoms like a newb because yes.

Jarrod

1) Earring travel as a raid tactic is -significantly- older than a year. I'd say a very conservative guess would be 2.5 years, Probably longer.

2) The last time something got put in that stopped all instant travel abilities, Targossas complained about it and Ashtan didn't care.

Ernam

Jarrod said:

2) The last time something got put in that stopped all instant travel abilities, Targossas complained about it and Ashtan didn't care.

This never occurred.