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Comments
Serpent (L3 fang)
Alchie
Occie
Bard
Shikudo
Apostate
Explain for the class?
I don't know too much about DW, I do have the class but havn't put too much time into it. We shall see what happens now that the spotlight is on it. Maybe better curing strategies will come out. I fought sylphie and it was a long fight that I had to shield and run a lot to reset her which destroys 2H momentum.
Also, uh, druid and occultist were both hot garbage for over a decade in 1v1, precisely because of their utility as was stated.
Serpent has a better 1v1 by far imo, and I’ve played both classes against everyone.
Edit: I feel like people aren’t curing the greatest, or are staying around too long before going defensive, against DW. It could be the way timeloop interacts that makes people concerned. The thing about timeloop is that the DW is giving up all up front hinder to do that non boosted, and can’t use non boosted as a mask if you used boosted recently. So it’s a matter of reacting quicker. Play it like you play Occultist, imo.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
Also apostate hitting curseward or not doesn't really make curseward shut their offense out any less lol.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.
The fact that the classes are all pretty close in 1v1 balance doesn't mean that apostate is on the same level as serp/bard/alch, just that it's not bad.
Apostate was buffed after I stopped playing it. What was nerfed about it? I am genuinely confused by this statement. I can't remember any nerfs, only buffs. Apostate is a lot stronger than a lot of people give it credit for. I'm not saying it's the strongest, but it definitely has its strengths and is competitive.
Honestly, to answer @Devran I think most momentum classes are relatively balanced overall. Otherwise, I would be classleading more changes to them. I'm very involved in ACC and trying to balance them. Some are better unartied than others, but at least at max speed you can fight as any one (it's not that you necessarily can't at less than max speed, just that I tend to play everything at max speed and don't want to make assumptions). There are issues here or there but I don't like to try to rate them. I win against serpents. I lose against serpents. I have yet to beat a good alchie as DW, but I haven't spent much time trying so I'm willing to say maybe I can if I work on it. I haven't beaten a good bard as DW either, but same.
Granted, the one momentum class I think actually needs nerfs is bard, so I guess I could safely say I think bard is the strongest. It still has weaknesses, but I think bard's weakness compared to other momentum classes is slow prep, whereas it dominates against other momentum classes that cannot slow prep it. I would say bard > alchie > others in a straight momentum v momentum fight.
@Keorin I was using a very simplified example. There are other things that make the matchups weigh more against DW in ways that make up for all of the advantages you listed. For example, DW is the only momentum class without a passive or effectively passive heal of some kind. Serpent and Alchie can salt/shrug without stopping their offense. Bard, Occultist, Priest, Apostate all have passive cures. This makes a substantial difference in practice because everytime these can be used DW has to do an extra attack to catch back up. Then, of course, snb has smash high, not just aconite/slike, and dedication, and passive sensitivity, and serpent has passive afflictions through hypnosis.
Between the passive cures, faster attacks, and often better passive afflicting than DW has, DW does not strike me as more powerful than the others. Granted, this is in momentum vs momentum. It does not all matter as much in momentum vs prep, which could make DW a better class against prep classes than some of the other classes.
Different kinds of masks giving different kinds of effects. Think oldschool carnival masks with different expressions giving different effects/controlling what abilities you can perform. The masks give you POWER, letting you INFLUENCE your target. Like the sad faced iconic mask that everyone's seen at least once allowing you to tug on your targets sadness/melancholic emotions to the point where they just end their own life. Other masks providing awesome flavor like buffs to you and your party like vibes/rites or whatever, cool bashing boosts. Have cruel/mean masks afflict your target/manipulating them in some manner. It'd be awesome if it had some unique status effects.
Keep the overall theme of what the nature of a Jester is, something that alters your emotions in either positive or negative ways (Court Jesters didn't just act like goofballs. THey tugged on your very heartstrings at times).
Cap it all off with one of the three class skills being called Dark Humor and fill it with the most morbid and disturbing stuff. Blacker than black. But make it powerful magic. Big big mojo.
And since it's nonfactional everyone would win. I'd play the hell out of a class like that.
also @Farrah I was under impression curseward got the buffs it did after you quit but I might have my timeline wrong. again, though, no one's arguing you can't win as apostate, but it's nowhere near alch/bard level.
EDIT: Maybe it was the way I presented it that makes it look similar? I don't know. I concede when you mention DARKNESS you think DW. But I definitely think you can have a thematically dark class that is not similar at all.
To put it another way, what defensive options are you supposed to have if a DW gets momentum going? Perhaps I'm misreading you, but it feels like you're saying that the way to handle DW is to out-hinder them with a different momentum class.
That might leave them at a fine spot in the highest levels of play, where l3 sip rings are assumed and everyone is playing their class to the fullest and is able to exploit the class' weaknesses, but I feel like at any other skill level, para/degen acts as an incredibly simple, potent option with far less options for counterplay then exist against other momentum classes, and I think that's why the class seems to frustrate plenty of people.
EDIT: Not weighing on on DW vs whatever. I am not a combatant. Just saying I think that's the point that's trying to be made.
Shaman is how it should be, tbh. If classes have literally no skill floor to be dangerous, then we end up in a situation where it's even more of a numbers game than it otherwise would be.
While it's important to have accessibility for newer players, this accessibility should:
1) not be almost entirely contained to one class
2) not allow someone much worse to perform at a level almost identical to someone much better. that's uninteresting. This is mostly not a problem in 1v1, as I said before, but that's largely because in 1v1 there's a lot more classes that require minimal effort to do well.
Agree on less utility, though. The "good" utility they have requires a lot more micromanagement than DW's utility. And generally at quite a higher cost.
That said, spamming kai choke or something doesn't take much more, obviously, but we've gone over how monk pays for that in other ways.
IMO, group combat would be a lot better if every class was designed like shaman, where the only 'spam' route you had was noticeably less effective than more advanced things. That'd require redesigning every second class, though, so obviously unrealistic.
curse bleed invoke bloodlet
jinx bleed inflame
I dunno. That's gonna kill quite a lot of people. Depending on level of tankiness, could even just curse haemo/bloodlet -> jinx bleed inflame in the middle of a fight.
That said though, bloodlet does have a fairly lengthy cooldown (when it comes to how fast group fights tend to be), compared to DW or.. Any other burst damage, really.
Penwize has cowardly forfeited the challenge to mortal combat issued by Atalkez.