Mhaldor vs Targossas

Sothantos

We've been literally losing tanks and dying in droves fighting. What are you on about?

Archaeon

Stheno said:

You don't always have to choose the least rewarding option and then tut-tut the other side for... winning? It makes you not worth engaging at all.

the irony

Fendrel

Okay Mr. Bomber.

Silas

Sorry, lol, I'm at work when you raid, as well you know. Otherwise you wouldn't be there. 🙂

ETA: I learned my bounty dodging prowess from Zackery, who you've helpfully kept on your council to not game the system at all.

Stheno

You're so close to self-awareness! Maybe in another few days.

Aegoth

Because Viceroys are decided by who will be most useful during the war

Silas

You're right, all cities should instead appoint inactive people to their councils instead of PKers like Lyndee and Daeir. That is the best way to run a city.

Archaeon

I think it brings up a good point, posting bounties on government officials seems like a strange way to go about things if every individual is worth the same amount. Some cities have more than others, some cities have dormant gov't officials, etc.  Using it as an example, realistically we can only take bounties on Ashai, who won't fight because she's not a fighter.  Then we have Stheno and Crixos, both of which are not typically on when our fighters are around.  Zackery is dormant, meaning we can't grab that one. Maybe make the group of people worth 10 points divided by the amount of active gov't officials to even out the odds?

Fendrel

I wake up everyday and see the 7 am raids with the usual 2 tanks, and that has been repeating itself for the past 7 days. Going back, there's not a single raid from Targossas which it didn't end in a guard/disarm strategy. Or Aegoth calling us lame when I got 1v3 because now defending people who got bountied is a thing. You people prod yourselves on the chest maybe a bit too much.

Aegoth

Fendrel said:

I wake up everyday and see the 7 am raids with the usual 2 tanks, and that has been repeating itself for the past 7 days. Going back, there's not a single raid from Targossas which it didn't end in a guard/disarm strategy. Or Aegoth calling us lame when I got 1v3 because now defending people who got bountied is a thing. You people prod yourselves on the chest maybe a bit too much.

I think you got it wrong buddy, you were the one screaming about lameness You can blame Mezghar/Farrah for that one, though. Admin ruled in their favor that city mates have RP cause to gank you if you go after one of our dudes for a bounty. But go ahead and cry more

Tesha

This isn't productive at all, and it's abundantly clear that each side has a very different few of the last few weeks. Can we take this mud-flinging in-game?

Vhaynna

But the forum 'War' is far more interesting for those of us not involved, than the ingame War.

I did like Mhaldor's public posts though. I think you guys win the War of the Words there.

Reyson

I still think the sliding scale of war rankings is the better way to go, for determining points for kills. Top 3-5 people on each side have the team-wide bounty put on them every 24 hours, based on a mix of total kills and KDR! That way, it's also not likely to remain the same peeps all war long, since they'll get dogpiled at some point, probably. 

Astarod

look idc if you accept to extend or not, just stop whining gdi. 

you're acting like we care if you puss out or not. 

Davok

This thread is rapidly devolving into pure, sweet gold.

Milabar

Does book 16 reopen if it gets extended?

Asking for a friend.

Caelan

What was that thing that got thrown around before?
I think it went...
"If you don't like it you can always surrender" or something..

Cooper

Silas said:

You're right, all cities should instead appoint inactive people to their councils instead of PKers like Lyndee and Daeir. That is the best way to run a city.

All crying and bitching aside, this is a pretty valid complaint.

Draekar

Silas said:

Speaking for myself, I actually want another 25 days of this.

Sothantos said:

I like war.

Achilles said:

Yessir, we want some more.

About a day late to this because I have to work and live my life too but I am in!

The first 25 days have blown by like they never happened...

Saonji

Daeir said:

People thought Jinsun's 1167 word post was a lot. You really think they're gonna read this?

Augtavian

Went back and gave everyone on the last 3 pages a like. You're all winners in my book! Great job everyone! War 2020! Woohooo!

Kog

Nicola said:

Doxing people is not cool, don't be the piece of shit who does this. This is the only warning I'm giving on this and it goes to the forum as a whole.

That's like the most reasonable discussion between city leaders I can remember seeing, across at least two IRE games.

EDIT: Also I am of the personal opinion that Achaea has entirely too many sadists. Even OOC discussion on some Cyrene clans about the war system has veered towards 'it should hurt the loser more' instead of 'the winner gets cool stuff'. Losing should sting, maybe(?), but winning should definitely be more fun than it currently seems to be.

Minifie

Losers should just get aesthetic loss components, such as city wide messages of <winning city> <soldiers/types> doing <things>. Such as a Mhaldorian soldier captures and shackles an injured soldier and carries them off over their shoulder, or radiant light shining through the city that Targ beats. Both sides should get amicable amount of "war points" to spend on war rewards, and the players can also follow further with IC story.

The only punishment that should be handed out is if the city declaring war surrenders, that should see some extra damage done but mostly in the shape of a global batch of imagery coming out world-wide (only if the declaring city surrenders, not if they lose).

Flavour is more than enough of a loss that is world building, enticing and sends off a good, recurring message of "This faction went to war, but lost out", the world wide would literally just be "This faction basically loud mouthed and got BTFO. No need for resources or gold, that stuff can be gained through other methods. I'd actually be more in line wanting a war score for the city to see, and as you rise in it you gain access to rewards you can activate for gold from the city, or soldiers can spend their gold to activate ( 5 million gold to get one of the city-war deathsights that you can use). Anything to promote warring, but even if you lose you still have some mechanical progression, but some RP pathway to use without worrying "If we war we risk losing 2 million+guard replacements+room rebuilds+burnout.

Also 1 year duration, 5 year wait to re-war (Rebuild, restock and what not). I dunno, just spitballing because I think having a MECHANICAL system for war is fine and dandy, but it needs to intertwine rewards just for getting in there, but also RP paths, win or lose. but that's just a game theory personal opinion.

Edit: I'm also not against talking OOC just to spitball ideas between factions, discussions and such. No harm if it isn't all sorted OOC then just replayed as rehearsed IC. Leave some creativity and such for the game itself.

Astarod

Minifie said:

Losers should just get aesthetic loss components, such as city wide messages of <winning city> <soldiers/types> doing <things>. Such as a Mhaldorian soldier captures and shackles an injured soldier and carries them off over their shoulder, or radiant light shining through the city that Targ beats. Both sides should get amicable amount of "war points" to spend on war rewards, and the players can also follow further with IC story.

The only punishment that should be handed out is if the city declaring war surrenders, that should see some extra damage done but mostly in the shape of a global batch of imagery coming out world-wide (only if the declaring city surrenders, not if they lose).

Flavour is more than enough of a loss that is world building, enticing and sends off a good, recurring message of "This faction went to war, but lost out", the world wide would literally just be "This faction basically loud mouthed and got BTFO. No need for resources or gold, that stuff can be gained through other methods. I'd actually be more in line wanting a war score for the city to see, and as you rise in it you gain access to rewards you can activate for gold from the city, or soldiers can spend their gold to activate ( 5 million gold to get one of the city-war deathsights that you can use). Anything to promote warring, but even if you lose you still have some mechanical progression, but some RP pathway to use without worrying "If we war we risk losing 2 million+guard replacements+room rebuilds+burnout.

Also 1 year duration, 5 year wait to re-war (Rebuild, restock and what not). I dunno, just spitballing because I think having a MECHANICAL system for war is fine and dandy, but it needs to intertwine rewards just for getting in there, but also RP paths, win or lose. but that's just a game theory personal opinion.

Edit: I'm also not against talking OOC just to spitball ideas between factions, discussions and such. No harm if it isn't all sorted OOC then just replayed as rehearsed IC. Leave some creativity and such for the game itself.

I love the surrender vs lose distinction you made, because surrendering is like an unconditional surrender, whereas loss is more just OOC points based or IC damage done. 

I think both sides have done great, I think I would rather have rebuilding messages in the losing city, rather than 'shackles' since even though Targossas was beaten (in this scenario and probably in reality), I doubt any of our citizens would allow enslavement unless we surrendered unconditionally (as in we have no say) if that makes sense. 

I think Crixos had some really well thought out ideas and a resounding couple of cries have been: less time, more PvE, less city destruction, etc. I dunno, there's a lot of things to fix. Maybe just the bugs lmao. So many bugs. Not even funny. 

Keorin

I'm convinced that a shorter length would solve most of the problems of the current system, or any other system. Basically every pvp event that I've seen has a few days where people are having fun and getting to take part in large scale battles and enjoying it. And then once that initial enjoyment fades it becomes a slog. But even if the system is quite flawed, those first few days can still be lots of fun.

If people remember the Underworld War, the mechanics themselves were riddled with problems. Everyone just attacked at times when they were guaranteed a win since that was what would score you points, the complicated battle mechanics they'd put in place went near completely unused, and in the end, the results were more determined by what random turnin quest your faction got at the start than differences in battlefield performance.

But the pvp part of the event lasted -three days-. And so everyone got to play way too much and have a ton of cool fights, and then it was over before the burnout could kick in. Keep things short and sweet, and even a bad system will end up a lot more fun for everyone involved.

Umaiar

Every time I read these I keep thinking... It could be a lot worse.

We could be under a perma-sanction where we would constantly need to be vigilant and attacking/defending. That's how it was in one other realm I played. 24/7 war, staying up 48 hours to watch troop movements (yes it was PvP and using troops to do the attacking) and praying for someone to take over so you can finally sleep. I'd rather have this!

Kaios

Really, you guys are going to talk about the terms for the conclusion of the war with each other over discord? What happened to roleplaying these situations out?

Kog said:

EDIT: Also I am of the personal opinion that Achaea has entirely too many sadists. Even OOC discussion on some Cyrene clans about the war system has veered towards 'it should hurt the loser more' instead of 'the winner gets cool stuff'. Losing should sting, maybe(?), but winning should definitely be more fun than it currently seems to be.

That's sort of the point I was trying to make before regarding consequences, everyone is so obsessed with them to the point that they would rather prevent themselves from having fun so that they can see another group or individual be punished

Armali

That sounds like old Aetolian war.

Silas

Kaios said:

Really, you guys are going to talk about the terms for the conclusion of the war with each other over discord? What happened to roleplaying these situations out?

Kog said:

EDIT: Also I am of the personal opinion that Achaea has entirely too many sadists. Even OOC discussion on some Cyrene clans about the war system has veered towards 'it should hurt the loser more' instead of 'the winner gets cool stuff'. Losing should sting, maybe(?), but winning should definitely be more fun than it currently seems to be.

That's sort of the point I was trying to make before regarding consequences, everyone is so obsessed with them to the point that they would rather prevent themselves from having fun so that they can see another group or individual be punished

This is another flaw with the current war system. If there were clear objectives for war then you get the satisfaction for the winning side of achieving their objective, and the losing side still has something to play off - the failure to achieve their own objective - without actually needing to be penalised. If people then want to include their own terms for war, they can decide that for themselves. But 5m gold being traded between cities is massively uninspiring.

Achilles

Damn @Daeir with the trifecta - a rat, a scrub and a baby.