Mhaldor vs Targossas

Minifie

Daeir said:

You don't like it at all. You're angry and bitter over a perfectly reasonable geopolitical decision because it infringes upon the purported 'fairness' of this war, the same way that many of us were angry and bitter over a perfectly reasonable inclusion of a Mhaldorian aspirant in Dunn to even the tides of the war. Especially since he's worth at least one Akrixos. Maybe one and a half if Dalran is with him.

You'll get over it by tomorrow and then the next flavor of transient irritation will come along and dominate the conversation or whatever, like how Stheno got forced via Devotion to extend the war to prolong this debacle for another month or something.

Damn, I wasn't wrong when I said Dunn had ya'll still super salty.

@Saonji You win this one

Reyson

That argument is the height of bad faith. You know Mhaldor can't accept help, mechanically. We treat it as a mechanical limitation because to us, it IS a mechanical limitation. 

I get that you guys wash your hands of everything inconvenient, and that's your RP, and that's fine. If we're supposed to be the punching bags of Sapience because of reasons, then I at least want cheaper credits, or something, if every single thing we have to do is against more than one team at a time. Let's just be up-front and honest about it. 

Your words would ring truer, too, if Aurora wasn't constantly smacking you around for decisions you make IC, and if in the ATA, she hadn't said she regretted not intervening in the Reckoning sooner. 

Stheno

Daeir said:

like how Stheno got forced via Devotion to extend the war to prolong this debacle for another month or something.

If this is the endgame, I'm going Dark Phoenix on you all.

Aegoth

Daeir hardcore defending something he would lash out against in fury if it happened to him. Shocking. There is nothing "reasonable" about this, and ICly it should be abhorrent to Targ to do this. You're just in "play2win MUST WIN" mode, amd it's kinda pathetic to see ooc and ic. Shrug. Just promise me you'll finally surrender once we disarm your loosis tanks too please.

Sothantos

Stheno

Daeir said:

I can't speak for anyone else but I'm sure not salty about it. I respect that the dude is a big force multiplier in fights and that having people like that on your side is a palpable advantage. It would be patently weird for you not to take it.

Seragorn was turned away for applying to Mhaldor mid-war without an Evil enough reason. Don't discredit Dunn or his story.

Fendrel

Selling a tank it's not taking more than a team at a time, if anything it's a slight "inconvenience" that you can shrug off by just defend like you all have done and disarm said tanks.

Sothantos

I'm confused about why people think it's more in Targossas's RP to surrender instead of getting more tanks.

Micaelis

More tanks = more disarms. What's the problem. 

Jonathin

Why would it be bad to buy more tanks anyways? Did something change in Targ where Deucora said 'yeah, ignore that one axiom that says do whatever it takes'?

Gallida

I think it's more "Targossas, where and how did you get those?" than "You got more tanks".

Nobody would bat an eye RP-wise if either city raided an uninvolved party and stole all the tanks. It's a dick move but at least you're not creating the impressions of "Targ is calling for help", "Eleusis is trying to join in without repercussions", and/or "Eleusis has suddenly become war profiteers".

Atalkez

Eleusis gonna be a serf state in 2 weeks, all good.

Kog

Atalkez said:

Eleusis gonna be a serf state in 2 weeks, all good.

Eleusis has already won, you fool.

Reyson

Eleusis just doused the helicopter in the Raccoon City Police Department station, and we're fetching our fedora.

Gallida

Reyson said:

Eleusis just doused the helicopter in the Raccoon City Police Department station, and we're fetching our fedora.

Do you seriously think they'd explain their masterstroke to you if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome?

Eleusis won 35 minutes ago.

Minifie

We were smooth brained to not see this coming when tanks were implemented. Fucking Amazon-brained eleusis always playing Achaea in the 10th dimension nonsense.

Milabar

Hopefully then this masterstroke win by Eleusis counts in the Book 16 bets

Archaeon

mhaldor drools

Astarod

Can you fix Mhaldor's weaken status?

Soon?

Akri

It's kinda surprising how many of these things are breaking, or only being revealed now during a war. It makes me wonder if war broke raiding and such, or if these problems always existed but nobody cared enough to really notice before.

Gallida

Raiding's always had these problems lurking about but they've generally been confined to single engagements. They're easier to look past when it's a one-time thing but get highlighted when it's actual weeks of this.

Antonius

Akri said:

It's kinda surprising how many of these things are breaking, or only being revealed now during a war. It makes me wonder if war broke raiding and such, or if these problems always existed but nobody cared enough to really notice before.

It's not that surprising. Some bugs will be new, others will just be cropping up because there's more raiding than usual happening (and therefore more opportunities for weird circumstances to occur).

I'm not at all surprised that the situation with Saibel had never occurred before. Most people don't pause their system, start disarming, then apparently stop paying attention entirely - my assumption from the fact she disconnected as a soul a while afterwards, which iirc only occurs if you've not entered any commands for a while after dying - so most disarm attempts would be stopped by them attempting to cure/leave/fight back when attacked, rather than just letting it try to complete before they die. Even if they do nothing before dying, I expect most people would do things after dying to let their team know the disarm has been stopped.

Entaro

Daeir said:

It'd be a bit of a stretch to accuse Saibel of soul disarming on purpose, yeah. The way Antonius describes it sounds exactly on the money plus an absence of any sort of flag checking for soul status when the disarm subroutine nears completion.

Thanks guys.  It's good to see were being reasonable, especially when both sides are victim to strange bugs. 

Farrah

Reyson said:

That argument is the height of bad faith. You know Mhaldor can't accept help, mechanically. We treat it as a mechanical limitation because to us, it IS a mechanical limitation. 

I get that you guys wash your hands of everything inconvenient, and that's your RP, and that's fine. If we're supposed to be the punching bags of Sapience because of reasons, then I at least want cheaper credits, or something, if every single thing we have to do is against more than one team at a time. Let's just be up-front and honest about it. 

Your words would ring truer, too, if Aurora wasn't constantly smacking you around for decisions you make IC, and if in the ATA, she hadn't said she regretted not intervening in the Reckoning sooner. 

I legitimately don't understand this mentality. It's like Kog said. Mhaldor can, and regularly does, beat their chests about being the best because they stand alone. This would have no meaning whatsoever if every city was simply required to stand alone, or Mhaldor got some special perk to make it easier.

Mhaldor is also winning. If I was Mhaldor, I'd love the opportunity to say I was beating Targossas, they turned to Eleusis for help, and we crushed both instead. God, when I was Targossian and we allied the Tsol'teth I was really disappointed that I did not get triple city raided.

Don't view everything as some terrible injustice OOC. See it as an opportunity. If Mhaldor didn't whine so much here, they might look like total badasses to people by this point. The whining kind of kills it, though.

I'm also not entirely sure that Mhaldor can't get help in any way IC. I'm not intimately aware of the details IC, but they have a whole House based on subversion. I feel like there has to be some wiggle room where from an IC perspective you're "using others to your advantage" rather than "pleaing to heathens for help." I could be wrong here, though.

Atalkez

Just don’t use Devotion 🤣

Reyson

OOC opinion = IC agenda. I can be annoyed OOC and still take things in stride IC and play the politics game just fine. 

Farrah

Sure, but you're oocly calling your city a punching bag while it is on its way to win its first official war against Targossas in its entire history. You should be trying to keep morale, not kill it.

Reyson

'If we're supposed to be the punching bags of Sapience because of reasons' 

Not that we -are-, it's the attitude that it's cool to do anything (usually resulting in teaming up) to beat Mhaldor.

I'm pretty sure everyone on the team knows how happy and proud and amazed we all are by one another's asskickery. I know I've tried to be pretty free-handed with praise. 

I'm sure you don't see it, but Mhaldor's actually been super great about morale, this time around, and I have to say, S has been pretty great about that, too. 

Edit: More effusive adjectives. 

Farrah

I mean, people are hardly stooping to insane levels of teaming. Giving a tank when Targ is not actually managing to detonate most of its tanks is minor from a mechanical perspective.

There's a book in the Targ library about a time Ashtan and Eleusis raided us at the same time (when I was Targ) and we killed them all. Hashan was raided by four cities at once when it allied the Tsol'teth. It happens to everyone. There's no ooc conspiracy against Mhaldor. And in circumstances like the present where it isn't outcome determinative I think it really just makes the game more interesting.

That is, if we try to discourage anything remotely unfair on an ooc level we don't get to have these great stories about fighting against the odds. I get the bug abuse/mechanical complaints, but a little bit of other city involvement, diplomacy, etc? That's interesting. Particularly when it's not super slanting like the reckoning with two cities backing one candidate.

Reyson

I never said it was a nefarious conspiracy, I think? Eleusis is happy to jump on the bandwagon any chance they get, it's annoying to have to fight multiple teams at times, and Targossas has a habit of reaching out for help even when they already outnumber their opponents, and I find that annoying. 

I think some of us were hoping that a war with Targossas would be war with just Targossas, but I'm pretty sure all of us were just waiting for the official help from other places to show up, because we weren't born yesterday. Being annoyed doesn't mean you hate everything and everyone, it's just that- annoyance. I never claimed that it was a plot, or that the eleusian tanks are going to swing the difference. It's just another instance in a half-year full of factions happily teaming up to try and stack the odds against Mhaldor, and that's a little irritating. 

ETA: For the record, I'm frankly surprised it went this long without something like that from Eleusis coming up.